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Legend hates Arhcers

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Posted by Mistry on 02/15

Now, we all remember the times when dex-sniper characters ruled the muds for a fairly long time (or some of us do, anyway). Between blinding wormies, amazing para-backstab rates and deadeye's to boot, dex sniping was THE way to go then, balance had to be restored, as it should have been. Deadeye and para were downgraded, eq was downgraded, and all the great sniper/dex eq has slowly faded away. Then the other character types had their day in the sun, Str and Con fighters with high Damage took over. All of this time, the obviously overly-restricted dex fighters were brought slowly back up to par. Now, str-mages are (IMHO) the best char, with the strength surgeons surging to the top. Dex snipers have mostly been brought back up to equilibrium, most recently with the addition of the nickel .45 in Pitt. Still, the archers have not received enough attention... we have the short end of the eq stick. You just don't see very many at all walking around with bows... all the snipers are gunning, and even those gunners are weaker than the other classes. Archers are feared because they can dip, but mages can do the same thing multiple times, and people have adjusted to it as has Legend. The best bow by far is the Ody, but it's two handed which means it's pretty much wormy or bust... This just isn't good enough. The best bows are super hard to get, for obvious reasons, and it's not like the wormy can still blind or be mended. The gae can be used with a comp bow, but come on.. that's a super weak bow. Something's gotta be done to make this a viable character class again... either make the Ody bow one handed or make the gae-bolg able to be carried around like the wormy. Now, i'm sure a million of you out there have been pk'ed by a sniper with a gae-bolg and fear the day that we're able to carry both that and a Ody around, but it would've been much, much worse if it was a char with a gun with it's relatively AMAZING damage and no reload time. You have to admit you don't see even those chars out there all that too often or powerfully... If nothing else is done, at least make the archers comparable to the gunners. They have better stats and newer eq... and there's a lot of one-handed guns out there. If nothing else, at least increase the quantity and variation of bows out there-- Don't forget-- gunners can quickdraw. Give us some more one-handed decent bows, lesser restrictions on the heavier daggers, or make Ody one-handed. Even dex gunners are too weak nowadays, but the archers are way, way under where they should be. Lots of options, one necessary goal --Mistry

From: Scream Sunday, February 13, 04:00AM status arrows nuff said -scream

From: Sandra Sunday, February 13, 07:00AM Making bows 1 handed is simply not going to happen. We probably could, of course, make it so that you could hold them in 1 hand, but have to remove your other hold item before you could shoot it, which means that you would have to not be fighting in order to be able to do this. There are plenty of bows in the game that are +stat. There are also bows in the game that do as much damage as the guns people use. On top of being able to dip quivers/arrows, I would say that makes them more powerful than a gun could ever be. I must say though, that I don't recall deadeyes very much during the days of the blinding wormy. The snipe(instant death) code didn't go into the game until well after the blinding wormy was removed. The majority of the characters I can recall during that time were cause/dex mages. -Sandra

From: Splat Sunday, February 13, 07:48AM Why isn't it going to happen? For the sake of realism? I doubt any unclanned would use a bow, there's no point when guns are so much better. Dip isn't much use to them after all, it gives a small benefit for a lot of effort in obtaining potions etc. Bows require 40 str, can only be fired every 2 rounds if you're lucky.. Do less damage than a gun unless you give up 5 stats for it or use a lower damage weapon which also kills your backstab. There's just no comparison. Oh well, at least I have the option to use either of em whether it's fixed or not.

From: Bannister Sunday, February 13, 02:03PM Well speaking as an unclanned archer I can't say I see what the problem is

From: Baelish Sunday, February 13, 06:19PM Status - Arrows Neat idea. Why not have arrows do a point of damage to the target for every room they move, for each arrow in them? Basically the same as major poison. Perhaps each arrow should have a random chance of infliting this effect to the target so as not to make it too strong. It certainly would make deadeyes more competative. Baelish

From: Jesus Sunday, February 13, 06:22PM well, first of all, whoever posted this isn't all there in the head. dip is powerful in pk, VERY powerful. -blind -dispel nuff said. - and 100 dex/80 perc is just plain simple to get with eq, so 80 str with some added +dam gear isn't all that hard to get, making an archer hit alot harder. - or you can take another route and get 80 con, with some added HP gear. - and even still, you can start in tara and augment. - to sum it up, 100 dex/perc sucks, but drop your perc to 80 and throw those stats elsewhere and your going to have a pretty nice char.

From: Sammael Sunday, February 13, 09:05PM are you all insane? Bows overpower guns by an AMAZING margin in pk, which is what I assume this is basicly talking about, at least the last few posts. How many mobs do you make follow you around? Deadeye rocks, in my opinion, and its made to not be quite as effective in mobkill for one reason. Because if you have to use a bow in combat, you are from either agrabah, klien, or tara, which all have bonus's of their own. If bows were to be as good as guns in mobkill, what advantage is their to using guns? As it stands, guns rock mobkill, bows pk. If that doesn't float your boat, sorry, but its working atm. I forsee the killing of guns if you make bows any stronger then they already are. Just my opinion though.

From: Manticore Sunday, February 13, 09:09PM Bows are quite powerful in pk, one handed or two handed. They deliver spells across rooms, every combat round. Have you tried fighting a decent sniper? It's insane for a non-basher, since they go around with 1 round skill lag, coming in and re-engaging the fight while the opponent is lagged if they wish so... every shot has a potential to kill you with a stun/para bs/bs... gah. However, that's pretty much limited to the good snipers. An average pker being a sniper... ouch. An inspire will kill most of them, those that don't use a bow are fairly annoying but still not too tough to deal with... and unless they go con, no matter where they place their stats, they're fairly weak. Damroll sniper? don't make me laugh, i had a char with 3 90s in the first column of old config score, he ripped much less compared to the con mage with 2 damroll. Snipers, atm, imho, are the most "powerful" chars in that they maintain their edge regardless of the opposing chartype. Sure luck plays a hell of a role for a sniper, but that's the way they are. More often than not they'll end up losing, but they'll always have that potential to kill you (pretty humiliatingly too, para'd til you see the login screen) And as far as the most powerful chartype atm... i'm willing to bet it's still the good old barabas chartype that is the most powerful.

From: Splat Sunday, February 13, 09:34PM I've had about 4 stunning shots in pk so far, only 1 of em I was able to get in another backstab b4 they woke.. Twice they entered the room where I was b4 my skill lag was up even. It could be just luck but I tumble headbutts a fair bit but hardly ever tumble bashes.. not once in bout 3-4 fights where all they did was bash. Bleah anyway enough drifting from the original topic. Hurry up with pkok! I don't wanna perma or go through hell retiring again!

From: Splat Sunday, February 13, 09:44PM Oh and what do you mean by 'status arrows'?

From: Barabas Monday, February 14, 08:37PM -peer Manticore-

From: Stain Tuesday, February 15, 01:27PM I usually have 3 quivers dipped for pk, and even if I actually hit my target, unless I crash them with a blinder it really dosn't do me a whole lot a good. Con chars with low str have mind so they stun me to death, headbutt actually being tumbleable. Str chars bash after every shot, since it is tumbled far, FAR less Other snipers blind, so it goes back and forth like that till someone gets blinded into a keeper or something. Point is taints arn't as potent as I see people saying they are, and if so, why the hell arn't YOU a deadeye? With bashes hurting that bad and being so rarely tumbled, stuns hurting even worse and tumbled less as well, I dont' think it's an archer problem, but a perc/dex problem. It would be so much more fun for me if I could play a sniper and actually do better as my skill increased, instead of waiting for that one streak of sick crazy luck to help me kill everybody for a day or so. I understand that sniper skills (tumble, etc) are more luck based than stat v stat, but come on, there must be some grey here. My main complaint is how extreme sniper luck is. I either tumble /para/stun shot AND my ac eats rounds, or do none of the above. Mostly, it's none of the above, too. I don't know how the mud decides wheather or not tumble works, or if your shot connects but the formula seems to be real f--ked up to me. (If the other stat/char types arn't so sporatic and unpredictable, why should perc/dex be?) I could be wrong but it makes me sorta wonder if someone just got real lazy when making snipers less potent way back when. I am not saying I wanna para every time I fight someone, or never miss a shot, or tumble every bash, just be nice to tumble say 4/9, isntead of all or nothing. (especially since it's usually nothing :P) I always hear about balance being so important but the thing that does the most to imbalance this char type is the insane luck factor. I nearly killed 2 people at once the other day crashing them into eachother with blinders, then later that same day I have my shot dodged twice in a row and miss 3 more times, landing a total of 1 shot. Snipers are always either underpowered or overpowerd, depending on their luck at that moment. Sometimes even when I am on a real streak of good luck it's a close thing too, though. Not usually, since paras seem to come a lot when your tumbling/landing shots, but I tumbled 6/8 of Manticore's skills the other day, connected on almost all my shots, got a few backstabs in and still won by only 2 hp's. Just sayin' I doubt it would go back to sniper dominated mud if we got a bit of a shot in the arm, or evened out this nasty luck problem.' - the someone behind the sharp pain in your back.


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