Meditate.....I've said it before but just posting it here. It needs
to be able to be used by a full mage without sacrificing more stats
than they already have to in order to get all the words. The mind
requirement should be higher and the spirit requirement should be 40, this
makes sense and would remove the necessity of every mage having a chalice.
As long as we are bitching, I think bardic skills shouldn't depend
so heavily on prestige....I can understand a slight difference, but
having 100 prestige is necessary if you want to depend on your skills
in battle which I think is stinky.
Saturday, March 18, 10:12AM
There's an alternate solution to this, which will reduce the
gap of fighters and spellcasters at the same time.
Raise the spirit requirements of words to match the current
meditate requirement. That will give fighters 8 points of
additional stat advantage against mages, something they need
really badly. Personally would ask for a 50spi req in meditate
to match the surgery skill...
Perception requirements for words should match rudh's current
requirement too, perhaps. Of course having all words be like
that will hamper mages' training too much, so only words that
are used in stun and sink will probably reflect this change. They'll
still be attainable, but at a significantly more cost than
All this i just felt was reasonable after looking at Mo's
stats again. Dropping Mo's mind from wfw-possible to casting
possible levels, he can attain close to 100 str, 90 con, tumble
dex... and an entire 2nd circle cause spellbook.
Basically every other skill a fighter has other than kick will
be a cointoss, while every spell other than stun will have 95%
chance of succeeding.
Raise word req's to current meditate levels, the best Mo will
have con-wise will be 77 points. Enough to make headbutt reliable.
Raise perc req on words, and Every spellcaster that can dodge
will be vulnerable to at least two sets of skills from a fighter.
Which, imho, is the way things should be to allow fighters enough
experimenting room with updated hit/dam gear and/or various nifty
attempts from the fighters.
Current word req is simply a joke, be it 2nd or 3rd circle, compared
to the benefits they can reap from that. With some rumours of making
fighters have spirit requirements for some of the skills, i think
word req's should be upped.
Saturday, March 18, 10:33AM
I think that all meditate does is allow faster regen so
who cares if it is lowered requirements...raising the
requirements of a mage is a ridiculous concept.
Saturday, March 18, 10:53AM
It's not easy to be a low level mage, especially one attempting
to get his/her words and cast levels before skills. This means
we rely entirely on our mana source and standard combat to get us
through the exp runs. We level at a fraction of the speed of
a sniper or fighter because they need to rest a fraction of the time
we need to rest to regenerate our mana.
With the recent changes, in order to even contend with other players and m
obs, damroll and hitroll is a neccessity to land your attacks.
With the rent jacked up and the +dam/+hit items now all having -'s in "mag
e" stats, it makes it rather difficult for us to gain these necessary bonu
ses. (I don't care what people say, you need it to land attacks.)
In order to have the bonuses, you need to give up quite a bit of rent spac
e which might and quite often means sacrificing a chalice. (Also a necessi
ty of a third circle mage, especially create.) Now, through all of this
and as Mars said, needing a ridiculous amount of uncessary stats
plus now you need natural dex to land attacks, who can afford an
additional load of spirit? As a strength mage, I have enough of
the damroll that I need, whether I want the HP or not, I have the con for
the spells I need, and until lately, my 17 dex didn't bother me because
I could make up for it with hitroll items. Now, unlike fighters
who neglect spirit and perc entirely, being a strength mage, I need
EVERY stat. If I neglect perc, spir, con, I lose my spellcasting.
If I neglect dex, I won't land my hits. (And I don't.) I can't neglect
strength because of obvious reasons and if I neglect my mind, then
I'm really no longer a "full mage."
Above all, in order to have any efficiency as far as time, experience
and everything else goes, I need more spirit that I don't even have
to get something that I need. And I can't even exchange one item
in order to get the attributes that for the skill.
All in all, I think it's a mess. My personal opinion is that
damroll and hitroll shouldn't be so overbearing and important
for everything. It shouldn't be a necessity to land your hits, just
make them hit harder.
Perhaps allowing mages that lost meditate with gradstats and new mages
that need it to once again be able to use it, would be a big step back to
where we were.
Saturday, March 18, 06:05PM
This is just me, but personally, if you raise the word reqs MORE
then they currently are for a 3rd circle, I just won't MAKE
a 3rd circle. As it is 3rd circle honestly gets little benefit
from having 3rd circle. What spells do I have that I use
regularly? Immolate, gust, invis, and cure crit. Thats a great
reason to come from agrabah when if I came from tara I'd have all my
normal spells, minus these, and brew. If I felt like dropping stats
a little, I could even poultice. I think your wrong on this one
lagmonster. I fight fighters all the time and they do NOT need
a boost at the current time. Staggering headbutt is just insane
and unless you get seriously unlucky you can't lose. I beat straussy
last night with 2 wfw's. Lucky me. For ever fight before him I've
stunned at least 10-20 times and wfw'd once, at dying. I personally
don't see the big deal with stun. For me anyway, regardless of how
low or high my mind is, I never wfw much at all. I think fighters are
just fine as they are, maybe too fine, but I'll say fine for now and
I DEFINATLY don't think mage reqs should be raised. I personally hope
to see spirit become a min req for a main fighter skill, maybe bash and
headbutt or some such. I think fighters get enough of a stat bonus
as it is and if you raise it, your making a mistake.
Saturday, March 18, 10:02PM
I reckon meditate should drop to 40 spirit and chalices should be
yanked.. Root also needs to come down to 45 spirit cos as it
is you may as well augment for just a tad more spirit.
Saturday, March 18, 10:17PM
C3 mages are already hard enough to make as it is, whether or not it's a
"full" mage with 100mind/100-91fight stat or a low mind, "half" mage.
If reqs were raised, I would stop making c3 mages as well, and likely,
I would stop playing them. The power a mage has ISN'T as great as Laggy
makes it out to be because a) not everyone is cause, and b) even if the pk
side of it is ignored, the fact will be that mages will be more vulnerable
to all sorts of things in mobkill than they are now. Which affects everyon
since clanned still need to mobkill to unclan.
Not to mention the fact that some things that work in mobkill...don't
work so well pk. Raising the reqs while leaving fighters untouched when
they can put a mage out of action with either a stun or a bash every 2 or
3 rounds would, imho be a big mistake. ESPECIALLY now that it isn't
really viable for a mage to use a lot of hit/dam eq anymore. The stats are
just too tight.
I would really like to see the a mind req of about 60 or 70 on meditate, a
a spir req of 40. 70 mind would power down "half" mages, be they c3 or c2,
while giving more incentive to have more than half a brain on mages.
Ammar ibn Khairan
Sunday, March 19, 04:59AM
I'll add my voice to this cry as well. Mind you, I cried out for it when
grad stats went in and got the response "lose some stats from somewhere"
Like I said at the time ...... 100 dex/mind, spell reqs leaves TWENTY
NINE remaining stat points. Meditate stats leaves NINETEEN stat points.
19 is -3 damroll, which I would point out now cannot be got back without
sacrificing more damroll, which would mean you need to lose more str ...
hey, that doesn't work. -3 damroll actually means quite a bit when you
only do 30 damage or so per round. Not a lot, but every point counts when
you fight a mob that has 600Hp and hits for 100 per round. Puny low con
mage-man with 400Hp can last 4 rounds.... does 29 X 4 damage in return.
Probably have to rely on ID, which most mobs are immune to. Provided you
Stats are now even tighter for a full mage - I had to lose stats to get
a weapon in there before the latest round of tightening. It would really
suck to have to re-eq now if I ever lost my old gear. Though I could get
a waterboy position on a team somewhere I guess.
For those of you who think I am over-reacting again..... I am one of the
average players out there who gets hit the hardest by these changes. The
really good ones will be slightly inconvienced and will adapt in new ways
Maybe I will as well, but chances are I will have to suffer because a few
people are doing things better than the rest of us. Nobble those people,
don't pick on the bulk who are plodding along, doing the best they can.
Monday, March 20, 01:28PM
Dont raise the req for words... Mages will become even more
impossible to play at lower levels. And I dont agree that
mages are too powerful, even at level 50. Im an experienced
player, yes, I beat most fighter types that attack me.. but its
damn hard. Sometimes a newbie fighter with headbutt 650 hps
(nice horseshoe from marauder, etc) and big damageroll stands
there and spams headbutt poetr all day, and comes way to close
to beating me, with my 500+ who knows how many pkill fights
strong experience, a damn newbie fighter shouldnt even come
close.. you wouldnt believe how close they get.
If you make it even tougher, than I can promise you, no one
except for an expert would make one.
This thread is about meditate, and yeah, 48 spirit makes
every pkill mage use a chalice. Something is always wrong when
all players of a certain character type outfit themselves with
the same item. I think that this was Mars original point and I
want to throw support to it.
Let me also add, that a chalice, not only saves me 8 stat points,
but allows me to regen mana as Im invis and stalking prey,
some thing that meditate doesnt do, and chalices also give me
an extra 60 mana... cause a 2 tick fight (at the shortest) is
one chalice cause you started it thirsty, and then a second one
2 ticks later. If you are smart you can start at thirsty, and get 150
(I think) mana (you can drink chalice 5 times from thirsty?).
Thats a lot of mana.
My suggestion is a 70 mind 40spirit min on meditate and yank the
chalice. Sounds harsh, but its much better than changing word pre-reqs.
And btw, Im going to be really sad to see my chalice go.
Monday, March 20, 01:42PM
I don't really think the meditate req is all that bad as is, even after
the changes to eq. As a 100 mind dex mage, I can meet med reqs
and still have 26 str and 3dam (that's +3, not -3). No, I can't do
that at 100dex, in fact I've given up one attack per round to make
those numbers. If I tried though, I could probably come up with an
eq list that let me have max attacks and still have very near the same
str/damroll. Then again, even with a horseshoe I don't have 400
hp.... well, variety is what makes us interesting.
For a con mage its even easier (could make a 100/100 list for con
mage pretty easily), for str create maybe it's a bit harder.... but
that's a whole other argument. The point is a mage shouldn't be as
good a fighter as a fighter is. Of course, even without meditate, a
mage isn't as good of a fighter. But I'd rather see 100 mind be more
powerful than see mages become better fighters.
Right now, as a mage you have a lot of choices to make: high fight
stats, more dam or hitroll, more hp, meditate, etc., you just can't
have it all. Having choices is what makes things interesting. As
long as each of those is a worthwhile choice, what's wrong with
Tuesday, March 21, 09:27AM
What is interesting about the difference between
a mage that can meditate and one that cannot...
There is no difference between the two except
one takes longer to regen and is hard
to level at lower levels.....and if you
are pk like me (are you pk, mugwump?) then
a chalice is a necessity. I am going
to throw support behind this idea, and
I would suggest perhaps making a chalice
a little rentier perhaps or even keep
it the same so I can regen mana even