Posted by Poetry on 05/01
I know it didnt go in yet, and I dont want to jump the gun,
but Im wondering if imms thought about this case in coding for
If character X loots or multis character Y, then character X should
NOT be able to UNOK them until character Y allows it.
My concern is that so and so player hates some other player
who is PKOK ALL. So he makes some random character and
then multies or loots and then UNOKs.
You could make it so that if you have eq that is stolen from a
certain character, then you cant UNOK that character.
Thats not enough, I think that multis and looting (even if the
character then drops the eq somewhere) are both good enough
critieria to keep the PKOK decision in the hands of the victim.
I dunno, just some thoughts. I hope this is already all thought
out and this post is for nothing.
Friday, April 28, 05:23PM
We thought of this. If you have someone's
owned item in your possesion, then (assuming
you're not more than 10 levels +/-) the
owner of that item can choose to accept and
attack you. It won't matter that you're
not accepting or are rejecting them, the
attack with still go through.
Note that it's one sided.. if you have someone's
owned item, both of you would need to accept
for you to attack them.
Friday, April 28, 11:20PM
That's a pretty good fix for looting, but what about healing?
Can players who aren't enabled vs a particular character still
heal someone fighting him/her? There's no way to tell whether or
not someone is accepting or not other than attacking, so there's no
way to even keep track of violations, is this is even going to be a rule
any more. I sure hope it is, because otherwise every pkiller will
run around with a reject all healer and the game will be no fun.
PKOK is going to be the death of all us rampaging evil pkillers, because
all the whiners will just reject us, and we'll no doubt kill eachother
off until some righteous indignant level 50 finally gets up the guts
to go around and slaughter all the half eq-ed evil guys. What's an
evil, despised, hunted pyrat to do?
Tirasala, the last Dred Pyrat, Lord of the Oshan See
Saturday, April 29, 12:35AM
Get drunk, Tira...
Guelah O'Connor, Leader of the Pack(rats)
Saturday, April 29, 10:14AM
Tirasala, it might be the death of 'all you rampaging evil pkillers',
but it could be the life of all the role-playing pkillers. Is it
such a bad thing that you won't be able to attack those who prefer not
to be attacked?
What we get is free choice. Now pkill is more open and inviting,
possibly encouraging more people to join pkill. And those who enjoys
being jumped can set their pkok for that, and vice versa.
On the point of multiing : That won't be possible unless you set
your pkok all the time, and one would suspect you got the hint
when you have died 4 times in a row.
Saturday, April 29, 03:29PM
Perhaps healers should automatically pkok everyone on the list of the
person they are healing, but only for 3 or 4 ticks. That way, if the
healer is interfering in a current battle, you can just backstab them
or something, like you do now, but they wouldn't be vulnerable for
the full 10 ticks.
As for looting, if I have an owned item on my person or in my house, I
should be vulnerable to that person. Huginn's response didn't indicate
whether housing was considered or not.
Saturday, April 29, 07:26PM
I do not see how duels alone would be 'the life' of an rp
killer, seems better for RP when you actually have to
take responsibility for your actions. Flea/D'assen (or
however you spell it) type characters will be the ones that
benifit the most here, their actions meaning very little,
since they can just reject whoever they please.
As is, there are people that will attack you just for being
around to attack (halo) but unless your pretty active, talk
a lot of smack, or constantly fight dirty, people don't
really target you a whole lot. I don't see what the problem
with the current system is. Looks more like, to me, that
people who get discouraged easily and lazy new killers
have convinced immorts with thier whining that deviding
the mud even more and making it safer to bust out with
the "rabbit punch" is a good idea. When I first enabled I
died a whole lot.. well, still do, actually, but now I am on
the winning side of the death info quite a bit, too. Ronnie
and the Dark Enforcers straight beat me down, at same
levs, gang-bang style, and with me down 8 or more
levels on them as well, but i'm glad it happened like that.
Pk isn't something that you just get good at over night,
and it's like they say, "what dosn't kill you makes you
stronger". I learned a lot quicker that way, and guess
what? My next char was actually pretty succesful.
When I think back, I can see that if I hadn't said such
hostile and aggressive things, and made threats like I
did against people who were better/higher lev than I
was I wouldn't have been treated like that. My whole
point is that it isn't the system, or the sick n twisted
evil guys that make pk trouble, YOU pretty well decide
how your pk career is gonna be. Frustrating to see so
much work being put into pkok when other stuff that is
actually broken could be fixed instead.
Saturday, April 29, 11:04PM
Back on the topic of stealing, what if say CharA stole
something from Charb, but CharA then gives the item
to a CharC. What would the situation be now?
Also, what if CharC steals CharB's item from CharA...What then?
Saturday, April 29, 11:35PM
This is for Kingfisher and all other such confused players:
It's ALL role-playing!
PKOK will actually cut down on how you can integrate RP and PK.
Take the specific example of a pirate. Pirates make their living
by attacking and looting people that do not want to be attacked and
looted. Pirates don't attack huge groups of powerful fighting men,
they go for the rich, the weak, and the lonely. Under PKOK many,
if not all, of the weak and lonely pkillers will only turn pkill on
for duels and 'friendly' fights. The days of hiding in safe rooms
and watching the death infos to find out who's worth attacking and
who's not will be gone, because you will never be able to tell who
you can attack and who you can't.
To expand the problem, take the example of a knight. What good is
a knight if he can't go out and right wrongs when he sees them. If
someone complains of foul play enough, it used to be that a bunch
of righteous pkillers would get together, hunt down the offender, and
smack him around for a while. Believe me, I speak from personal
experience. But say I find out that a certain pkiller has me accepted.
I go out, and I kick him around for a while, multi him a few times,
loot his old SSS, and then invis his corpse. Under the all or nothing
system, I'd get stomped on all over the MUD. But what if I think ahead
and reject all but this one pkiller that I decide to pick on. Where are
the consequences for my actions? Where are his friends and clanmates?
They certainly won't be beating me up for messing with their friend,
that's for certain. So where's the need to develope friends, to RP
with any sort of charisma? Some players are good enough that they
don't need allies, but weak fighters can make more powerful friends,
if they ACT friendly. No need for that any more, just turn pkill off
until you find someone you want to stomp.
PKOK is a bad idea. It won't make roleplaying any easier, it'll make
Sunday, April 30, 01:31AM
Hmm I actually agree with Poetry and Tirasala here... wierd.
I'm one of the types of pkiller that should probably be looking forward
to this whole pkok thing, but it's just going to make it harder to rp in
some ways, whereas before you could always rely on a knight or somesuch
other to come to your aid should you get attacked, now there is just going
to be no jumping .. ? It's going to make it too safe to be in pk to be an
as much fun as it used to be.
-Larnoc (the rambling Herm)
Sunday, April 30, 03:19AM
Why doesn't everyone wait until it goes in before you pass judgement
Sunday, April 30, 03:57AM
No, Tiralasa, it is all about FUN. Weird how everyone who jumps people
at random all the time hides behind the word "role-play". I agree, that
is roleplay too, but rp is many things. And since your style of rp
apparently prevents some people from having fun, why not be happy
about pkok, which will ensure that those you fight will have fun
doing it (otherwise they likely wouldn't have accepted you).
With pkok you allow everyone to play the type of pkill they prefer, where
they have the most fun. Can hardly see a problem in that.
Sunday, April 30, 04:15AM
After reading through all this, like Larnoc I'm surprised that I agree
with Tira. Seems to me a better idea all round might actually be LootOK
and/or MultiOK. Guess I'll just see what it looks like when it goes in.
Sunday, April 30, 04:45AM
First off, when did I ever say that Legend is anything but fun?
Anyway, Kingfisher, I don't understand what you mean about hiding
behind role-play? If you don't understand why someone killed you,
and s/he responds that it's his or her RP to do so, who are you to
deride them for it? I've met many a psychopath on Legend, as well
as many who simply enjoy the thrill of the hunt and the rush of the
kill. What's wrong with that kind of an RP?
As to preventing people from having fun, I don't see why you think
'my' style of RP would do that. I like to think that every character
that hunts me down for some transgression realizes that they're just
playing a game and has some fun with it. If I have personally offended
any real people out there, they've never said anything to me. On the
contrary, I've had very pleasant OOC discussions with characters who
proclaim to hate my guts. Anyone who can't take a pkill or 12 in stride
and have fun reacting to it should really take a step back from the
game and think about what they're doing for a little while.
I like to think that players have lots of fun using their characters
to hunt me across the world and kick me around a bit. I know that
I, as a player, enjoy both hunting and being hunted, killing and
If i actually have made the game unpleasant for any of you real people
out there then I, as a RL person, do apologize. I was just having some
fun. Of course, barring a response from the entire MUD that I suck and
should be sitebanned, I will continue to harass, loot, and kill all
you helpless weaklings out there, cause it's fun!
Sunday, April 30, 05:36AM
I don't usually agree with Tirasala, either, but I like what
she(?) has got to say here. I always thought rp spawned from
rp was the most enjoyable part of pkill. Only time I ever got
involved with the planned sorta thing was when I wanted a
coupon or something, not for fun. The thing I am having trouble
understanding is why these people whos fun is ruined by agg
pkers enabled in the first place. I had thought PK stood for
"(P)layer (K)illing". What these people should be asking for
instead is some kind of arena or something where you can duel
other players while in that area even if your not enabled. I see
pkok as, basicly, betraying the most simple point and goal in
lock e the game. I don't worry about weather someone 'wants' to
Sunday, April 30, 06:23AM
bleh.. was interupted there (peer self)
anyway, what I was trying to say is that I see pkill and mobkill
as pretty much the same thing, only differance is that instead
of being a challenge because they are so much more powerful
than I am, pkillers actually use strategy. Basicly an agg mob
that hunts and thinks. Another level of mobkill, or something.
The thing that keeps me from becoming bored of it all, like I do
repeatedly killing the same mobs for xp and such is the drama.
Take away the spontinaity (yes, my spelling is terrible :P) and
mystery, you take away the excitement, too, and that prevents
me from having fun. No disrespect intended to any players, I
am talking about the basic combat system/game when I say
your all just a bunch of agg hunter mobs.
Point i'm trying to get across here is that saying pkok is the best
thing for role play is just rediculous, since it will eliminate the
very thing that has sparked all the rp I have ever been involved
Sunday, April 30, 07:11AM
I agree with Stain. My last pkiller was horrible, maybe only won one fight
I got jumped at least 3 times a day and was the target
of many harassment situations. But, I made a new pkiller and have learned
Sunday, April 30, 07:16AM
heh, sorry about that, as i was saying i have learned quite a bit from
my past experiences. I may not win as much but once again,
like Stain has said "what hasnt killed me only made me stronger".
My appreciation for PK has grown and I enjoy being jumped/being the jumpee
(if that makes sense). I dont get the same rush with an accepted duel as
I get with a premeditated murder -cackle-
I get with a premeditated duel -cackle-. So, I dont know if
this append is even helping or making me look like a fool
I just wanted to put in my two sense :)
Worsipp|er Of The Dark L
ok, that sucked :)
Sunday, April 30, 08:34AM
Nothing wrong with jumping others, nothing wrong in not wanting to be
jumped either. There are several ways to use pkill, and pkok
will ensure that people can use pkill the way they like it.
I think it is neat if you really like being jumped/jumping people,
but now you can be certain that those you jump also have
fun with the fight. I fail to see any problem in that.
My will be done,
Sunday, April 30, 10:46AM
To answer Archmage's questions..
1) if charA stole from charB, A won't be able to give to
CharC unless B & C accept each other.
2) if charC can steal from CharA is both accept each other
and so B's item could be stolen from A.
In both cases, if B's item is somehow transferred, it retains
its ownership (CharB) and the vunerability follows the possesion
of the item.
If the item is in a house, attacks aren't possible, but
you can always break in and pick up the item (obviously
you don't need to steal it if its yours, get will work)
Sunday, April 30, 10:50AM
Thanks to the folks who are willing to try this new system
before condeming it. To the other side of the room, I'll
suggest all you crazed killers out there accept all and
then build up your reject lists with those that you
feel aren't acting in your spirit of pkill.
Personally, if I can get up the courage to face you
killers, I'll probably be willing to do the same
unless I go somewhere like SL/PD. :-)
And for those that are suggesting RP == duel, I think you're
avoiding the point. I would expect that the "good" rpers
and "evil" rpers will meet and broadly decide what wars
they want to have possible... then for the next X time
(weeks, months etc) they'll fight those wars and rp as they
do. If someone is being a jerk then they get kicked out of
the game.. The problem with this kind of game is that there
have been too few consequences for poor behavior. Although
some of you insist that posses form for such things, those
are much rarer and ineffective than claimed. If you aren't
a complete novice, its almost always possible to get away
and rent. Lame, but possible. Now the consequence of being
truly (not rp) unpleasant is that you limit your pool
of targets, let's see if that makes a difference.
Sunday, April 30, 05:28PM
I frankly believe I will lose the desire to pkill when pkok comes in
It will be too mindless, the fun is preparing for the jump and catching
your opponent off guard, because with pkok, that person will know
who he has accept and who he has to look out for, what fun is that?
Also in my opinion the majority of people who want pkok are people
who are too lazy to build a pkiller up from scratch and just want to use
some random character that wasn't ever enabled. If you want people to
use these characters in a way to PK then why not implement an arena of sor
(sorts). I don't know, that idea isn't full-proof, but the reason
I have stayed on this mud for so long is because of the unique pk system
available here as well as the friends, but without the pk system
I like, where does that leave me? going afk a lot and chatting to people
I tested it during April Fools and I wasnt too impressed
with people healing each other who werent even accept all.
Also i think pkok weakens the advantage most pkill characters have
Create mages cant walk into a room and wall someone but to find out
that person took off accept all.
Or snipers who like to aim up to snipe
I don't know, I just despise this idea. -shrug- sue me.
Sunday, April 30, 11:18PM
Huginn, I am not completely condeming PKOK, I just think that there
are some issues with it that have not yet been addressed. If the imms
have actually thought of all the potential problems i've brought up
with the mechanics of healing, pkill interference, etc. then someone
let me know so that I can shut up!
As to your suggestions on how RP will evolve in PKill, i must say this:
I don't like planned RP skits. If I want to have a battle with someone,
I go over and pick a fight with them, in character. An example is the
little tiff that my Pyrats had with the Castellano Mafia. There was no
OOC planning, no discussion of rules or boundaries. One day, someone
killed someone else, then there was a huge sequence of retaliation and
revenge. That is a good RP-PK mix. It wasn't duels staged for the rest
of the MUD or anything like that. We didn't know how it would end, or
even what the next move would be. That's why it was so much fun.
And that's going to die if people can turn PK on and off. Maybe something
new and different will come up in it's place, who knows? I don't think so
Tirasala, bleh bleh bleh
Monday, May 01, 12:22PM
Huginn suggested all us crazed killers accept all then build up
our reject list.. Bad idea, we tried that out for April 1st.
A bunch of people can jump you and you can't even get help from
clan members with you in the room, this still needs to be addressed.