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PKOK again

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Posted by Huginn on 06/30

I keep reading about how much PKOK sucks. Which is interesting since the control over pk is now in the hands of the players. But that's old news. So basically 'accept all' is too dangerous since anyone can jump you with 19 charmies, or their friends can double team you, while your friends can't help out. Yeah, I can see that would be a hell of a fight.. I'd still put even money on someone like Dune vs the charmie Master, but let's assume that accept all is too dangerous for the oldschool style pkiller. You're still ignoring the fact that the accepts for pkill clans override personal rejects. Meaning if clan Sniper_Babes and clan retired_battle_mages are both pk and they accept each other, it doesn't matter if their members reject each other, the attack still goes through. So "oldschool" pk is possible in the current system, you just don't want to be bothered to implement it yourself. The only ones I see "stuck" are rougues. Yes, you'd have to form a rogue clan, and put up with a clan channel. Not a huge deal. I'm willing to try and fix things that are broken, but if you as players aren't willing to go the other halfway, then nothing that's coded is going to solve the problem. Huginn

From: Dune Friday, June 02, 11:08AM Everything you are saying makes perfect sense. For one reason or another, though, it doesnt seem to work. Maybe the player base is just too low, I dunno.. It just doesnt seem to work that way. Without incentive to be accept all... no one likes to do it. The incentive in the old system was that you get to pk.. now that you can pk without it, barely anyone is accept all and pk has been reduced to dueling. This was fun for about 2 weeks, and now pkill has completely slowed to a halt. Personally, I think a coding change could make it better.. bringing the good aspects from the old and new systems. Right now, we didnt really get any better overall... just better for some, and worst for others. I think you should look at it subjectively rather than objectively.. Whether or not this system should work in theory has nothing to do with anything. The fact is that it created a pretty big split among play that like to pkill in some way or another. It wasnt perfect before, when people got stuck in pkill with aggressive killers killing them as they tried to unclann and with curious rpers afraid to clan and rp because of its one-way nature. Well, I think it isnt perfect now, having so much flexiblity that human survival instinct kicks in, and no one is willing to accept all or take any risks.... RISK, the thing that makes pkill go round and round. Without it, everything is sooo lame. I can safely say that we know this from experience. Hm, Im running out of steam for this stuff. Dune

From: Rufus Friday, June 02, 12:16PM Again, from my perspective, not any official one... There's supposedly this legion of 'oldstyle' pk'ers around who want the system back the old way -- whereas you can in some method or another closely emulate the old system. If there were these oldstyle pkers around, why aren't they all accept all? It would seem to me that if about the only thing that is happening is the occassional (or frequent) duel, that that's what players want for the most part -- they don't want the risks, they want to duel. If the majority of people involved in PKOK are there just to duel, that speaks much more highly of the desires the playerbase wants for pkill than the 4 or 5 very vocal posters on the discussion board who say that nearly everyone wants pkill back the way it used to be... think about it =) -ruf

From: Huginn Friday, June 02, 02:47PM Dune, I'm not saying that oldschoolers should be accept all. I've tried that argument and it's not going anywhere. Although I think that some of you are tough enough to fight off some of the abusive type attacks, I admit that those attacks are a possibility. Instead I'm suggesting that everyone who wants to be oldschool style joins a pk clan. Maybe it'll be necessary to form a misc clan or clans that accept anyone and don't even like each other. :-) Then the GMs of the pk clans type accept clan The members of those clans can then attack each other, help each other, you name it, without changing any of their own accept lists. The GM sets policy about who is being abusive. If you want to "retire" then instead of mobkilling for days you type 'abandon'. What's wrong with that system? The only thing that I can really see as a weakness is that people have to populate the pk clans, but from what's said on the board, that kind of play is what people want, so it shouldn't be hard to organize. Huginn

From: Tirasala Friday, June 02, 02:57PM For Rufus: One reason that old school pkillers don't want to be accept all is that they don't want to get jumped by Joe Shmoe with 15 charmies who then rejects him as soon as possible. The Joe gets to brag abotu this great kill that he made and the OSP can't exact revenge. Another problem is that you don't know who you have to watch out for. Say a level 40 accept all walks into a room and a character that's been level 50 for years and never pkilled decided to try his hand at it and accepts the 40 then kills him. There is no way to defend against that other than giving everyone you don't know the backstab test as soon as you walk into the room, and that's obviously not the way to go. For Huginn: Your plan for pk clan organization makes sense and should work. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean that it will. It requires too much organization on the part of the playerbase. Rogues would never get any action, and rogues forming a clan kinda defeats the purpose, especially for those that are rogues for RP reasons. The reason that the old system worked was because it was just one small decision and then you were pk for the rest of your career. No complex agreements with everyone else in the pkill community, you didn't have to manage your status afterwards, just flip one bit in your playerfile and you're all set. People like things kept simple, pkok just makes them more confusing. Tira

From: Zaknafein Friday, June 02, 03:15PM I agree with tirasala, people don't come here to organize crap that probab probably won't last more than a week, they come here to play, everything is so much work now, and that takes the fun out of it, if you have to go and get all these people to help you out with the whole organization thing that's no fun, people want to be wreckless, they don't want to get togethe and fight like a bunch of little pansy's kicking each other in the butt an and patting each other on the back.

From: Huginn Friday, June 02, 03:30PM In the previous pkill system we had clans. Most people were part of a clan. Yes there were some rogues, and I admit that its an additional step to form a "rogue" clan. But its not major effort. The GMs setup the "oldschool" style once. The members don't need to do anything but join the clan. I don't see where all the "work" is. Then you can be as "wreckless" as you want. Huginn

From: Splat Saturday, June 03, 02:40AM I don't think many even knew that a clans accept list overides the individuals, I read it was likely to go that way but is it the way it works now? If so, well.. Grendels have accepted all other pk clans, I hope the other GM's will get their act together. Ok, so that takes care of one of my characters, can we also have the accept all change please? I really don't think it's right to have characters in more than one pk clan.

From: Razumikin Saturday, June 03, 10:15PM ok, if most players want to duel, take pkok out because it isnt encouraging RP or increasing pkill activity, and put in an arena, and restore the old pkill system. I dont know what world you are from huginn, but you seem to have this deep disdain for any 'oldstyle' pkillers and as for pk being in the hands of the players, its pk in a format very very reduced in enjoyment. and clans accepting other clans and this and that needs a player base 3 or 4 times higher than we have, and it still has flaws. and accept all is the dumbest thing you can do in pkok, its just asking to be abused at someone elses convenience, pkok is just another example of changes not wanted by many actual players, poorly tested, and thrown on the mud.

From: Huginn Sunday, June 04, 11:53AM Razumikin, 1) No, I don't have disdain for oldschool pkillers. Quite the reverse, I think that they're some of the most dedicated and capable players. 2) As for "its pk in a format very very reduced in its enjoyment", there seems to be quite a few people enjoying it alot. You're not one of them, so it sucks.. maybe there's a reason nobody wants to accept from you? "clans accepting other clans and this and that needs a player base 3 or 4 times higher than we have". Nope, we have enough of a player base for that to work, even if you only have 1 character that's in a pk clan. Of course you can have multi characters in different pk clans as long as your able to fight on one side, and then another depending on the day. If you're not able to seperate characters then obviously any pkill would be a bad idea. "pkok is just another example of changes not wanted by many actual players poorly tested, and thrown on the mud." Again, I disagree. PKOK is a way of involving more players, and removing the ability of some people to destroy the enjoyment of others. What's the matter, won't anybody let you prove you're "the best" anymore? Folks, you have the ability to make pk into what you want, as a society or group. You want to be brutal? Then that's fine if everyone agrees to it. If you want to dabble, that's fine too. But if you don't like the current atmosphere of pkill, then convince the people you want to fight, to fight your way. Some oldschool pkillers have seen this, I've seen the posts for organization. Huginn

From: Fraegis Friday, June 30, 02:30PM Well, if upholding known rules makes the imms dictators, I can only shout "HAIL THE DICTATORS". I feel sorry for Santina, but I am quite sure there is a reason behind every punishment the imms hand out. Fraegis


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