Posted by Dune on 08/04
I looked at Kaiges numbers. They dont mean much to me.
Its no surprize that %pk is up, since people have
enabled all of there characters, as opposed to only one that
they were required to before. A lot of people enabled to try a
duel or two, and then reject all. The numbers mean nothing,
The entire approach seems a bit strange to me. Imagine the
people at GM looking a bunch of tests about the new car they just
designed... it has the best engine, the best "numbers" the best
economy. You can step back and say its a great car. Or... you can
say hm, seems like it should be good.. but it doesnt drive.
I also read LadyAce's notes from the PKOK forum.
Even a 500 tick timer is still too short. At about 50 ticks
an hour, thats less than a day in a house with a void
trigger. The ability to turn it off and on makes it fail... not the
ease with which you do it.
I hate to say this, especially with all the work that imms spent
on pkok, but you guys created a system that does not agree with
basic human nature. I think you should just get rid of it.
Your attempts to make it work by adjusting timers, and
setting different parameters are going to be futile. Im saying this
with the same confidence that I said that pkok will not work when
its idea was first posted. I, along with ALOT of others,
was correct then, and I think I am correct now.
IN MY OPINION, you need the old pk system back, with
a couple more options to allow for players to dabble in pk, or
get out more easily (but at a cost) if its too hot for them.
Im still waiting to hear from the imms if legend is headed in
some new, NON pkill, or sparse pkill for RP only, kinda direction.
And, assuming that Kaige posted the pkok numbers to prove that
there is more activity under this system (I might be wrong), it
seems that legend is not headed in that direction.
I really think posting those numbers was silly. Its like saying,
LOOK!, I studied for 27 hours for this exam! I _should_ be doing well!
... while actually failing. Its hard to ignore the fact that PK is
almost nonexsistant. Pictures of food mean nothing to people
that are hungry.
Thursday, August 03, 10:20AM
I'd like to reitterate that what Dune wants could
most simply be done by having all pk clans
accept all other pk clans. And to further that,
when someone enables they can become pkillers
(accept all pk clans and all other pkillers) or
non-pk duelists (who have the accept and reject
functions of present pkok). The change at the point
of enabling is to allow full fledged pkillers to
stay out of clans.
Thursday, August 03, 01:09PM
Dune, why not step back and take a look at what you've said:
"Its hard to ignore the fact that PK is almost nonexistant."
Then why are the immortals bothering to waste the time coding for
something that barely exists anymore?
Based on what the numbers show, yes, PK saw a general increase in
participation with the introduction of PKOK - but it didn't increase
the participation for the "hard core" pkiller scene at all - that
percentage remained right around 18%, where it has essentially been
for the last year.
The general peak numbers have dropped some, yes. But as I am sure many
have noticed, Legend has seen a better balance between when people are
playing. Previously, I would log in around 8am system time and money run
because there was nobody around, the who list generally showed 5 to 10
people. These days, the numbers are between 15 and 20 at that time of
You're right, the numbers themselves don't really mean a thing because
there are too many factors that can affect them. BUT the main thing
they tell me is the immortals are spending a LOT of time to please a
small portion of the community. And a comminuty that "barely exists
anymore" at that.
Thursday, August 03, 03:45PM
You are asking me why the imms are bothering to waste time
coding for something that barely exists anymore?
Im not sure what you mean... first of all.. are they coding?
If the are, isnt it to make it LESS non-existant.. I think they have
acknowledged the fact that something is wrong with the system...
Arani, do you think there is more pkill going on overall, just less for
the "hardcore" pkillers? If you do, I think you are mistaken.
The scene is more dead than ever... unless you are a newbie that
used PKOK to get a duel or two in... then, as far as you are concerned
-pkill- is on the rise.. for you.
Take a look at the boards. The people that post arent necessarily the
"hardcore" pkillers, as you say. Nothing happens anymore. Just a duel
here and there.
I dont understand why Im getting resistance from anyone at all.
The people that like the comfort of PKOK, the newbies that are starting
out and dont want to be forced to face people like me, should have
some option to dabble in pkill and try it. The cost to get in was too
HOWEVER, the people that like to pkill, and obviously there are quite a
few, should have a less optional system to pk in, so it doesnt die
like it has in this PKOK system. Is that not the best of both worlds?
Why do people like you resist this? Am I saying that this should be a
pk mud? We are a community, and people are unhappy... does anyone care?
Why cant we bring back the excitement we had before, while
preserving the optional system for people like you?
Thursday, August 03, 05:09PM
Where did you ever get that I was opposing you?!?
1. I was agreeing with you that the current status quo sucks, that
PKOK did not, in fact, improve the PKill environment in general. The
oldstyle PKill environment is still as stale as it has been for the
last year, still hanging around 18% participation. (Though how much
of that is comprised of the same people's alts, meaning the 18% is
more likely 10%?)
2. I was pointing out that despite the fact that pkillers as a whole
("serious" pkillers, not dabblers) only make up 18% of the mud
community, the immortals are putting a lot of time into listening
to you, taking your suggestions for improvement under consideration,
and in general spending a good deal of time on you.
And yes, there IS more pkill going on overall, whether it is old-style
pkill or people just dabbling. The numbers do show that people are
indeed interested in some form of pkill (which is players killing
players) even if the general "pkill scene" is more dead than ever.
People are still enabling to accept fights with -someone- (see Kaige's
total accept/reject numbers in 52 2 - there's a pretty good number of
people accepting at least 1 person, and a decent number accepting more
than that). As long as they are fighting players, they're participating
in pkill. Just because they don't accept all doesn't mean they aren't.
And you don't know me so you can't make any statements about what
system I would prefer...
As for whether anyone cares that some people are unhappy... it is quite
obvious that the immortals do. I don't think you'd be seeing Q and As
for PKOK or promises of code changes based on ideas -players- have put
forth to improve old-style PKOK. So what if THE code change you want
doesn't fit with the way the immortals think PKOK should work? They
are still doing what they can to make you happy within the bounds of
the PKOK system as they designed it.
Friday, August 04, 01:41AM
If PK is so non-existant, why is it every time I long on
and I log on for less than an hour a day...
why is it I -always- see atleast one person die to someone else
as far as "Legend heading toward a NON-PK direction
or a Less-PK direction
you know what?
I'm tired of this damn debate
this is a completely stupid issue
for all you PKers crying about not getting your vengence
on those pansies that attack you and reject
Why aren't you rejecting them?
Oh, I'm a big tuff Pker and I accept all, because that's the way
it USED to be.
Time change, and you have to change with them.