Posted by Jesus on 10/13
After fighting Splat today, I think we really need to look at
making missed spells either cost 0 mana, or 0 lag.
a missed backstab has 0 lag, and no loss of anything,
a missed kick has no lag, no loss. So why the hell am I
getting a one round lag, and a cost of 35 mana on a missed
stun? it just doesn't add up, with mud lag, I walk in the
room Splat is in, use my up arrow and return for "stun splat",
and by the time it goes through, he's walked out of the room,
and to make things worse, I have a one round spell lag,
at which point he walks in and backstabs for 1/3 of my total HP.
(at level 50, yes I have low HP).
Anyway, it's getting annoying, at least give us
half mages something, one or the other, if not both.
dex alone just can't win in pkill right now, and when
second circle spells are your only alternative to kick, your
in deep trouble against any char type.
-Jesus Christ, Superstar.
Thursday, October 12 2000, 04:31AM
pmie nwnd talt wpyt ralc ysa tnsiaga whbdort pwwu si rdoy
Thursday, October 12 2000, 04:32AM
ummm, I have no idea what that was, I used @^.
-laugh- funny bug, tho ;)
Thursday, October 12 2000, 11:08AM
The reason there is mana cost and skill lag from spell use
is because of the intricate nature of magic.
There are complexities to magic, such as guestures
and vocalities, that must be made for a spell to work.
Such guestures (am I spelling that right?) tax the mind
with their complexity, and so does the drawing of the
magical force for the focus of the spell.
Your failure to cast the spell indicates some small error
in the time of casting.
You missing the spell is irrelevant as you successfully
completed the spell and therefore must suffer the
consequences of using magic.
Any idiot can wave his foot in the air and hope he hits anything.
A sorcerer must have the intelligence to guage his actions
and decide whether or not the sacrifice of mana is worth
the chance of missing the intended target.
Thursday, October 12 2000, 02:58PM
Christopher, that's a load of hooey.
Rather, if you're going to defend lag on a spell that's cast into
the air, then you should also be in favor of instituting lag when
you kick at someone who's not there. After all, you have to shift
your balance and thrust your foot out, don't you? How about a
headbutt? You have to try to grapple with someone who's not there
and bash your forehead into their (non-existing) forehead.
The mud is smart enough to not cost you skill lag when you try to
use a skill on someone who's not there. Why not do the same with
Thursday, October 12 2000, 04:07PM
Because from birth you have been taught
how to shift your balance and it is something
that you practice day in and day out, it is reflex
the world around you does not extract a great physical
toll upon you for sticking your foot out with great force
except maybe to give you a groin pull if you're out of shape
Have you ever seen a martial artist practice his forms?
It does not look like he needs much recovery time to stand
on one foot and kick repeatedly at the air...
Thursday, October 12 2000, 06:19PM
You're just rationalizing the current set up. There no reason based
in reality why there should be lag and mana cost for spells with no
target and not lag for skills with no target.
I could just as easily say that because the target isn't available, then
no magical channel is opened, thus no expenditure of magical power. And
if something as energetic as kicking (with a force calculated to crush
someone's ribcage), doesn't leave you off balance and needing time to
recover (skill lag) then why the hell should mumbling a few words and
flipping your fingers cause you any more?
The fact is that there's lag and mana cost for spells with no target and
none for skills, and there's no good reason for it.
Thursday, October 12 2000, 06:32PM
Besides, we went over this in a previous topic. Somebody suggested
adding skill lag when you spammed skills when the target wasn't
available. I came out against that -- in my opinion, you're not
really doing the skill, spamming the command merely simulates your
hair-trigger readiness to do the skill. You're waiting for your
prey and your ready to act on it in an instant.
I feel that spells should act the same way. You're not really
casting the spell, you're just ready for the first opportunity.
What it comes down to for me is that there should be some consistency.
Lag for every missing target, or lag for none. I'd prefer lag
Thursday, October 12 2000, 06:33PM
Hey, if we're trying to rationalize stuff...
recall that each "room" may be anywhere from the size of a room in a
building to many miles on each side. Wouldn't it be a bit silly to keep
kicking? Wouldn't you get a bit tired? I would.
I don't think that mages should be able to spam spells for no cost. This
would be, IMO, overpowered.
I also don't think that people should be able to spam skills for no cost.
Even if it's just an mv cost, I think there should be something.
Thursday, October 12 2000, 07:44PM
I do not think kicking here is like kicking a ball to your buddy.
Knowing how to shift your balance for everyday activities makes
"sticking your foot out with great force" easy. However, it does
not make kicking someone in attempts to inflict great quantities of
damage an easy task.
I have been practicing taekwondo since a child. Yes, I can
kick in combination at no target with relative ease. However,
kicking at a target that suddenly disappears makes my body hurt,
in some situations ... hurt a LOT. When I kick, I prepare my
body for impact in order to maintain balance. When impact does
not occur, I sometimes lose balance, possibly giving my opponent
an opportunity for attack (since I am trying to receover or I
am, like, on the ground).
It is like punching. Sure, it is easy. However, if you intend
to punch someone, then he or she suddenly dodges, you sometimes
go flying pass them. Icky.
Thursday, October 12 2000, 11:40PM
You are completely missing the point in
your overzealousness to maintain your opinion.
If you channel energy for a spell, and finish casting it
and you release the energy, it has to go somewhere.
You can't just.. sit ready to cast a spell.
That's the equivalent of pretyping.. to sit ready to cast.
What you want to do is to be able to shoot fireballs (ex)
in all directions at once, hoping you actually hit something
and you want to have no ill effect for doing so.
Incidentally, I agree with most people that spamming a skill should
decrease your move somewhat.
So in simple terms, I am defending the way magic lag is and
supporting a lag for missed skills.
Thursday, October 12 2000, 11:43PM
btw, the only reason I didn't mention skills earlier
is that this was a post about spells, not skills.
Else I would have stated my move cost opinion earlier
Friday, October 13 2000, 06:28AM
no, that was skar's post, this post was about
being backstabbed for 100+ HP after missing my stuns, because
of spell lag, and mana cost to boot.
-Jesus Christ, Superstar!
Friday, October 13 2000, 06:56AM
Yeah, you know.. if you miss someone with an arrow, you
should be able to keep the arrow and shoot again the next
Friday, October 13 2000, 07:05AM
Uh, hey, Chris?
It's a game, remember? Magic doesn't really exist. Well, maybe Penn
and Teller, but that's something else...
You're spouting all this mumbo jumbo about "the intricate nature of magic"
and gestures and blahdie blah, but guess what, you're rationalizing.
You want the game to play in a certain way, so you're making up reasons
why it should work that way. If Kaige gets on this board and starts
writing "yes, missing spells costs mana because of the intricate nature of
magic in Legend's system, whereas spamming a skill merely indicates a
state of readiness, well, I'll believe her. Coming from you, it's like...w
well, okay. Oh, and by the way, dishwashers run on plutonium because I
don't really know how they work, but that seems like a neat way of
rationalizing the way they behave in practice.
If you have a point to argue about game mechanics, stick to game mechanics
Friday, October 13 2000, 10:20AM
Exactly, Yvonne. Don't tell me that I can't spam spells because "that's
the way magic works," because that's hooey. Instead, support your opinion
in terms of game balance, because arguing realism doesn't get you
anywhere. I can argue realism as it applies to physical skills (thanks,
Strad!) but you can't use it for something that has no real-life
l in chalice
For instance, I've heard people say that we can't allow mages to spam
spells because it would make them too powerful. As if there's a great
difference between a spammed stun spell and a spammed headbutt or bash. Or
and immolate and a backstab. Those are game balance issues. Drop the