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Missing spells

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Posted by Jesus on 10/13

After fighting Splat today, I think we really need to look at making missed spells either cost 0 mana, or 0 lag. a missed backstab has 0 lag, and no loss of anything, a missed kick has no lag, no loss. So why the hell am I getting a one round lag, and a cost of 35 mana on a missed stun? it just doesn't add up, with mud lag, I walk in the room Splat is in, use my up arrow and return for "stun splat", and by the time it goes through, he's walked out of the room, and to make things worse, I have a one round spell lag, at which point he walks in and backstabs for 1/3 of my total HP. (at level 50, yes I have low HP). Anyway, it's getting annoying, at least give us half mages something, one or the other, if not both. dex alone just can't win in pkill right now, and when second circle spells are your only alternative to kick, your in deep trouble against any char type. -Jesus Christ, Superstar.

From: Jesus Thursday, October 12 2000, 04:31AM y pmie nwnd talt wpyt ralc ysa tnsiaga whbdort pwwu si rdoy

From: Jesus Thursday, October 12 2000, 04:32AM ummm, I have no idea what that was, I used @^. -laugh- funny bug, tho ;)

From: Christopher Thursday, October 12 2000, 11:08AM The reason there is mana cost and skill lag from spell use is because of the intricate nature of magic. There are complexities to magic, such as guestures and vocalities, that must be made for a spell to work. Such guestures (am I spelling that right?) tax the mind with their complexity, and so does the drawing of the magical force for the focus of the spell. Your failure to cast the spell indicates some small error in the time of casting. You missing the spell is irrelevant as you successfully completed the spell and therefore must suffer the consequences of using magic. Any idiot can wave his foot in the air and hope he hits anything. A sorcerer must have the intelligence to guage his actions and decide whether or not the sacrifice of mana is worth the chance of missing the intended target.

From: Skar Thursday, October 12 2000, 02:58PM Christopher, that's a load of hooey. Rather, if you're going to defend lag on a spell that's cast into the air, then you should also be in favor of instituting lag when you kick at someone who's not there. After all, you have to shift your balance and thrust your foot out, don't you? How about a headbutt? You have to try to grapple with someone who's not there and bash your forehead into their (non-existing) forehead. The mud is smart enough to not cost you skill lag when you try to use a skill on someone who's not there. Why not do the same with spells?

From: Christopher Thursday, October 12 2000, 04:07PM Because from birth you have been taught how to shift your balance and it is something that you practice day in and day out, it is reflex the world around you does not extract a great physical toll upon you for sticking your foot out with great force except maybe to give you a groin pull if you're out of shape Have you ever seen a martial artist practice his forms? It does not look like he needs much recovery time to stand on one foot and kick repeatedly at the air...

From: Skar Thursday, October 12 2000, 06:19PM You're just rationalizing the current set up. There no reason based in reality why there should be lag and mana cost for spells with no target and not lag for skills with no target. I could just as easily say that because the target isn't available, then no magical channel is opened, thus no expenditure of magical power. And if something as energetic as kicking (with a force calculated to crush someone's ribcage), doesn't leave you off balance and needing time to recover (skill lag) then why the hell should mumbling a few words and flipping your fingers cause you any more? The fact is that there's lag and mana cost for spells with no target and none for skills, and there's no good reason for it.

From: Skar Thursday, October 12 2000, 06:32PM Besides, we went over this in a previous topic. Somebody suggested adding skill lag when you spammed skills when the target wasn't available. I came out against that -- in my opinion, you're not really doing the skill, spamming the command merely simulates your hair-trigger readiness to do the skill. You're waiting for your prey and your ready to act on it in an instant. I feel that spells should act the same way. You're not really casting the spell, you're just ready for the first opportunity. What it comes down to for me is that there should be some consistency. Lag for every missing target, or lag for none. I'd prefer lag for none.

From: Kerstin Thursday, October 12 2000, 06:33PM Hey, if we're trying to rationalize stuff... recall that each "room" may be anywhere from the size of a room in a building to many miles on each side. Wouldn't it be a bit silly to keep kicking? Wouldn't you get a bit tired? I would. I don't think that mages should be able to spam spells for no cost. This would be, IMO, overpowered. I also don't think that people should be able to spam skills for no cost. Even if it's just an mv cost, I think there should be something. Kerstin

From: Stradivari Thursday, October 12 2000, 07:44PM I do not think kicking here is like kicking a ball to your buddy. Knowing how to shift your balance for everyday activities makes "sticking your foot out with great force" easy. However, it does not make kicking someone in attempts to inflict great quantities of damage an easy task. I have been practicing taekwondo since a child. Yes, I can kick in combination at no target with relative ease. However, kicking at a target that suddenly disappears makes my body hurt, in some situations ... hurt a LOT. When I kick, I prepare my body for impact in order to maintain balance. When impact does not occur, I sometimes lose balance, possibly giving my opponent an opportunity for attack (since I am trying to receover or I am, like, on the ground). It is like punching. Sure, it is easy. However, if you intend to punch someone, then he or she suddenly dodges, you sometimes go flying pass them. Icky. Strad =P

From: Christopher Thursday, October 12 2000, 11:40PM You are completely missing the point in your overzealousness to maintain your opinion. If you channel energy for a spell, and finish casting it and you release the energy, it has to go somewhere. You can't just.. sit ready to cast a spell. That's the equivalent of pretyping.. to sit ready to cast. What you want to do is to be able to shoot fireballs (ex) in all directions at once, hoping you actually hit something and you want to have no ill effect for doing so. Incidentally, I agree with most people that spamming a skill should decrease your move somewhat. S err.. So in simple terms, I am defending the way magic lag is and supporting a lag for missed skills.

From: Christopher Thursday, October 12 2000, 11:43PM btw, the only reason I didn't mention skills earlier is that this was a post about spells, not skills. Else I would have stated my move cost opinion earlier

From: Jesus Friday, October 13 2000, 06:28AM no, that was skar's post, this post was about being backstabbed for 100+ HP after missing my stuns, because of spell lag, and mana cost to boot. :p -Jesus Christ, Superstar!

From: Christopher Friday, October 13 2000, 06:56AM Yeah, you know.. if you miss someone with an arrow, you should be able to keep the arrow and shoot again the next turn too..

From: Yvonne Friday, October 13 2000, 07:05AM Uh, hey, Chris? It's a game, remember? Magic doesn't really exist. Well, maybe Penn and Teller, but that's something else... You're spouting all this mumbo jumbo about "the intricate nature of magic" and gestures and blahdie blah, but guess what, you're rationalizing. You want the game to play in a certain way, so you're making up reasons why it should work that way. If Kaige gets on this board and starts writing "yes, missing spells costs mana because of the intricate nature of magic in Legend's system, whereas spamming a skill merely indicates a state of readiness, well, I'll believe her. Coming from you, it's like...w well, okay. Oh, and by the way, dishwashers run on plutonium because I don't really know how they work, but that seems like a neat way of rationalizing the way they behave in practice. If you have a point to argue about game mechanics, stick to game mechanics

From: Skar Friday, October 13 2000, 10:20AM Exactly, Yvonne. Don't tell me that I can't spam spells because "that's the way magic works," because that's hooey. Instead, support your opinion in terms of game balance, because arguing realism doesn't get you anywhere. I can argue realism as it applies to physical skills (thanks, Strad!) but you can't use it for something that has no real-life counterpart. l in chalice For instance, I've heard people say that we can't allow mages to spam spells because it would make them too powerful. As if there's a great difference between a spammed stun spell and a spammed headbutt or bash. Or and immolate and a backstab. Those are game balance issues. Drop the rationalizations.


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