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rp and pk

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Posted by Elisa on 11/09

I've touched on this topic before, but recent circumstances have made me think about it more and clarify my thoughts. So I want to post it so all can know where I stand on the issue. I'm not 'anti-pk'. I know some of you live for pk. If you have fun with that, then go ahead and do it. What I am against is combining pk and rp. They're like oil and water. This is why: In any given interaction between two or more people, including rp, the possibilities are infinite. Each person has a multitude of options to choose from. Yet the habitual rp/pk'er always chooses the same one. Any given situations leads to the same outcome--death. This is not only predictable and boring, but severely limiting the potentials of your rp. I want to be good at rp. I expect the best out of myself and don't want to limit my options. For this reason, I choose not to pk. Perhaps I'm being shortsighted in this regard. If you can see any way around it, please help. If you agree with me, then you're the person I want to rp with.

From: Cumference Sunday, November 05 2000, 03:48AM heh you'd not want to RP with me, i'm a pker..yet, I agree with you It always leads to death...that's why i've taken the time out of this boringass age of almost-no-pk-and-wars-and-stuffs to make

From: Abigail Sunday, November 05 2000, 09:05AM I have to say that I disagree with you, strongly. Cutting off one venue of expression does nothing but shorten your rp, not expand it. There are many, many ways to use pk in rp. I know, I"ve used most of them. Some people may remember my rp with and around Crowe. That same rp included pk and went strong for over 2 years. You're right in a way, if the pk always results in a death, then it gets boring. Pk isn't limited to that, though, and shouldn't be thought of as just death. Stealing is part of pk, you could remove weapons and stand there beating each other up in a fisticuffs sort of way, lay a curse on them, removing their sight. I could go on and make this post incredibly long, but I won't. I think you see what I mean. If you truly want to be good at rp, then don't ignore options to enhance it. I've been a pkiller and an rp'er, together, since I can remember. If you feel that you don't wish to rp with people like me because of that, then your list of options grows somewhat shorter by the second. Abigail MacDuff

From: WhiteRose Sunday, November 05 2000, 11:45AM I agree with Abigail. I have been around to see her RP and PK and I think that if you insist on keeping them separate, you could miss out on alot. Quite a few characters come to mind other then Abigail too.. Some are quite old names and might not be around anymore, but they still are good examples... Crowe, Marcel, Lancorn, Malia, Lori, Sharpe, Miguel, Guapo, Tad, Harkon, Kae.. I could continue but it probably wouldn't matter... It does show though that with some ingenuity and effort, PK and RP can be combined and not always lead to death. And even if it does, it can stil be fun. -WhiteRose (An oldbie who remembers rped pk fights quite well and fondly)

From: Kae Sunday, November 05 2000, 12:09PM I agree wholeheartedly with Abigail and WhiteRose, but I do need to point out that I was never pkill enabled -giggle- Marcel is, though, and I like to think that ever since pkok went in, ever praise the day, I've picked fights for RP reasons -- some of which were done with socials -- and generally had a party with pkillers and nonpkillers alike. -Kae, your very blond.

From: Elisa Sunday, November 05 2000, 01:26PM Since you all are not addressing my point, some clarification is in order. I don't care about the death. In fact, I don't care about the outcome of the pk at all. Pk is an end, not a means. My point is that if you use pk for rp, then your ability to interact with people is limited to either killing them, or joining forces against someone else. There's no incentive to work things out, or make deals. We aren't living in a kill or be killed world. Why must we act like we are?

From: Kae Sunday, November 05 2000, 01:30PM Actually, I think the point was addressed. Killing people is just one solution to a storyline out of hundreds. I don't see why being pkill enabled forces you to choose death as the only outcome. It's not as if pkillers are less able to use socials, speech alternatives, moods, and generally imagination than non-pkillers? -Kae

From: Elisa Sunday, November 05 2000, 01:49PM Exactly Kae, but that one possible solution is chosen a disproportionate number of times. For some people, it's always chosen. That is what is limiting.

From: Kae Sunday, November 05 2000, 02:00PM Well, it's certainly Elisa's right to feel that most people are incapable of mixing role play and player killing. No one can argue with her right to hold that point of view. However -- to state that the two do not mix, period, is wrong. I'll gladly give that a lot of people should try more interesting solutions and twists to RP stories than just hacking away at each other. However, some of those people do that because that's their kind of fun -- more power to them. Some do it because they haven't really learned how to do 'better' yet -- they will. Nevertheless, to claim that Role play and Player kill are like oil and water is one certain way to make a lot of people feel offended and patronized. Whether they succeed or not, they try. Telling them that their efforts aren't worthy of one's attention does not win one friends. -Kae read discussion 31 8 -get posting right- -have more coffee-

From: Jair Sunday, November 05 2000, 03:26PM Hmm... This certainly seems to be a contravercial topic, While I agree that the "lets just kill 'em" approach seems to be taken all too often in the name of RP, I cannot say that it has no place.... In any Rp situation, as is the nature of RP, many different avenues crop up to be looked at and then one chosen to follow. It is what makes RP, well... RP and not a bloodbath. But denying the fact that PK can be brought into RP is not a statement that I would like to make... Within the last month an alt of mine has been in an ongoing RP with a number of the people who have already responded, and there was a point where my alt had to accept two others, just in case that was the avenue that seemed to be needed. It did not come to PK during even the tense mooments. But he did get jumped, which at the time seemed like a dasterdly PK'ing tactic, which ticked a couple people off... But it can be RP'ed to a whole bunch of differnet ends now... whether it be good winning in the end, or a so-called act of "righteous vengence (which I highly doubt...) But PK does fit with RP, sometimes to conclusions that we don't like, but still can be RP'd. I was upset over the jump, sure, because I coldn't see where it fit in with the RP, but once the initial shock wore off it gives me endless possibilities for the next time that I RP.... -mumbles Mom always said that I was too long winded for discussions- sa I may have talked way to long, and perhaps rattled on too much, but I hope that you all see my point somewhere in there. -shrug- Even if you don't I still said it -grin- Jair

From: Yvonne Sunday, November 05 2000, 06:58PM Bah, silly append-eating board. Okay, quick and dirty version! Q) What's the difference between a PK RPer and a non-PK RPer? A) The second one can't kill people. That's it. There's no other difference. It's silly to judge someone's RP differently based on whether or not they're enabled. If you enjoy their RP, swell, if not, that's fine too. If you think that PKers can't engage in RP that doesn't involve fighting, you've missed out on some of the better RP plots I've been involved with. Lurk mode reactivated!

From: Christopher Monday, November 06 2000, 01:45AM Yanno.. that Dark Invasion plot thing that happened a while back.. how much of that was RP and how much was PK? I seem to recall alot of Minako being involved and uh.. she's not PK...

From: Typhoid-Mary Monday, November 06 2000, 08:39AM MmmM. I've had pkillers I RP'd and pkillers (well one) that I didn't. I disagree that RP and PK don't mix because while I kinda liked how relaxing it was to be a non-RP-pkiller after being one that actually did RP quite a bit (as well as fight quite a bit), I do like RP in pk because it gives me an idea on how to act (or react) to pk activities. Death, multi-ing, winning, whatever. I like the feeling of knowing whether or not I should sulk and brood, or bounce about and talk about toes or feathers or whatever. Hmm a lot of whatevers in this post. Guess I'm saying that if you don't think RP and PK mix at all then you must not be seeing a lot of pkillers. =) 'Lil Miss Typhoid Oh yeah and for the rest, I agree with Yvonne. ;)

From: Ganymede Monday, November 06 2000, 10:07AM Elisa, no one misses your point. What Abigail and WhiteRose are saying, and me too, is that we have borne witness--not just on isolated but on many occasions--to just the sort of mixing of RP and PK that you are claiming is never done. PK can easily be a means to a larger RP end, as it was in most of my father's battles. If PK wants anything, it's more people who will open their minds to it as a possible element of RP. I would also point out that PK figured prominently in your mudwrestling matches last week. You can try to say that's different, but is it? What other ways could PK be used in fun events in a similar context? Ganymede et al.

From: Mice Monday, November 06 2000, 10:14AM I am not enabled, never have been, and in all liklihood never will be, but I will admit to there being times when I've wished I was or people I was RPing with were, to provide additional avenues for the RP to go. I've seen RPers like Marcel and Abigail successfully integrate PK into RP on many occasions, without the end-all be in someone's death. As many others have stated here, PK certainly does have a place in RP and it absolutely does not limit one's RP options but can expand them - if that is what one desires (some people LIKE the end-all resolution to be in someone's death). I'll stop rambling, there's been so much spam on my screen I have little idea what I've written at this point anyhow. Mice of Angesley

From: Elisa Monday, November 06 2000, 10:22AM Ok, I get that things were better in the "good old days." I haven't been here as long as many of you, and many of the things you are citing are from way back when things are different. Let me tell you about what I've seen recently. I've seen pk'ers use rp as an excuse for pk--often for jumping, looting, and multi'ing. I've seen people use the rp of non-enabled people as an excuse for pk--getting them involved when they don't wish to be. I've seen good rp ruined by the pk activities of a few of those involved. I posted looking for solutions, and have only received insults and arguments. Perhaps your acrimonious personalities prevent you from recognizing the viability of rp without pk. When you can get a handle on your emotions, come find me. Until then, I'm just disappointed.

From: Todd Monday, November 06 2000, 12:31PM It sounds like to me that your biggest problem is that nobody has jumped up and said, "Oh my gosh! You're absolutely right!." What I see is that there are people here who have managed to integrate RP and PK. I haven't seen any real big insults or anything to that degree. Just some people who have managed to do both and be successful at it.

From: Elisa Monday, November 06 2000, 12:34PM ...the insults weren't all posted.

From: Dashiva Monday, November 06 2000, 04:16PM PK+RP=fun

From: Carney Monday, November 06 2000, 06:53PM You seem to be assuming your right and everyone is wrong. Did it ever occur to you that YOU could be wrong? If so many people are so obviously against what your saying, it shows to me that your in the wrong, not them. Your certainly entitled to your opinion, but you basicly told everyone they are stupid in one of your posts because they don't agree with you. Your certainly not going to get any support that way. - Carney

From: Cumference Monday, November 06 2000, 09:29PM hrm now thati think of Marcel and Abigail, it IS possible to successfully RP/PK but i still stand for pk not being able to exist with rp (not being able as in most cases, not all) since there r more of those ppls that get pist off pk/rping then there are successfull pk/rpers :P maybe i'm saying this cuz i could never do it myself, shrug.

From: Zalbag Tuesday, November 07 2000, 11:39AM personally i think this mud should find some way to make a big RP plot once a month and get a group of people responsible enough to start this incorporating pkill would maybe get some of the pkillers involved into it and hell it might be fun. maybe make this a PR imm duty where they get togetehr with some people and talk about some weird funky RP plot. the thing is their are minor ones all the time im talking about on a global scene where you log on and know you are a part of something. give it a beginning,middle and an end for each month or three months or something but at least keep it interesting. zalbag that one guy that just logs on

From: Fuegozaba Wednesday, November 08 2000, 12:00AM You have got to be kidding me. So your saying that if i pkill, that means i cant RP? Thats the worst thing i have ever heard you say. I play Darkmists now every so often, Darkmists is a full PK mud and guess what, RP is STRICTLY enforced. You dont RP, the immortals delete you, thats the end of that. So to say a person cant RP and PK is ridiculous. That mud has much better roleplaying then this mud has ever had. Go look there sometime, you'll be surprised at how well people can RP and PK. -Fuego, the dude that isnt supposed to be logging on

From: Blackthorne Wednesday, November 08 2000, 03:03AM Im curious Fuego, do they all rp like you do here?

From: Fuegozaba Thursday, November 09 2000, 05:32PM i dont RP here very well, it is too hard to RP on an OOC mud


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