Posted by McDonald on 12/23
I took this pool about, abbot suger.
I can't believe how you think. First its stupid to change
the mob in the first place. Just because someone doesn't
play the game just the way you planned it doesn't mean
it should be changed.
Adding stupid acts to make things unsoloable is stupid.
Systematically watching how people play and then taking
away options is stupid.
Perhaps just because 1 person can kill a mob, doesn't
mean its too easy.
Just build your stupid mobs and let the people kill them
however they want. When you go change the mobs it makes
them all wack.
Example, Higbald, whenever you stun him wow, he jumps
back up next round and autokicks you. Stupid!
Sunday, December 17 2000, 07:53PM
Sunday, December 17 2000, 08:13PM
Sunday, December 17 2000, 08:43PM
Tituba dose the same thing
Monday, December 18 2000, 08:28AM
I agree, this mud is based too much on fixing things that aren't broke
Monday, December 18 2000, 10:26AM
I think I have to agree too. A crafty player that can kill a tough
mob by using a lot of resources and some planning shouldnt get
shafted by cheap coded specials.
There should be a reward for these players, not a punishment.
Hey, I have an idea.. lets make Abbot Sugar SLAY anyone that fights
him solo:). That would solve it!
And btw, I soloed Hibbens=p
Monday, December 18 2000, 12:39PM
Heh, -I've- solo'd Hibbens. The point is to make them difficult for
the reward they give. If their difficulty doesn't match their reward,
then yea, we will make sure that it does.
There will always be -some- way to solo something if the player(s)
are smart, and crafty enough. It's just a different challenge.
Monday, December 18 2000, 01:36PM
well abott's reward isn't the exp thats for sure ... and the
chalice has a way longer respawn time that abbot - so you could kill
and it be a waste of time.
and he's pretty hard as is, not impossibe, but about right imo!
Monday, December 18 2000, 04:27PM
Duh, the point is, you shouldn't base these things on how often the
mob is killed by a single person, without looking at how they did it.
Just because someone solos them does not mean they are too easy,
or the reward too high.
All I hear imms saying is if you feel a mob is too hard then tell
someone. Well that is fine and dandy, it really is, but you go
around making mobs harder and worth less xp, that noone complained
about being too easy, as far as I can tell.
I've said it in the past many times, don't give mobs stupid specials
that automatically cause them to do a certain amount of damage
when x occurs.
Give the mob more hp, lower its ac, whatever.
I think the real problem here is, noone seems to agree with most
of the changes to the mobs. You decide they are too easy, based on
something. Well it looks from the poll its based on how often they
are soloed. Suger has been on this mud for how long??? A long time
right??? Has he been broke all this time? I don't think so.
The main thing is the specials though, you add a special that has
no way to be saved against. This isn't playing fair.
Maybe the mobs need to be able to have better stats. Say maybe
down to -200 ac, something, just quit using the stupid specials.
Now I agree all the options in the poll weren't like this, but
the reasoning behind putting any of the options is flawed if
your basing it only on how often they are soloed.
So many of the mobs now have some stupid move that puts you on
your butt, with no chance to dodge it. What the hell is up with
that! All we can do is make a trigger to stand.
Monday, December 18 2000, 05:25PM
Eh, what's the difference? Who the hell kills Suger for XP anyway?
Monday, December 18 2000, 06:05PM
The true crafty player is rewarded more by the imms making mobs more
difficult, giving them a challenge, than by any xp, money, or equipment.
So quit whining at every little change!
Monday, December 18 2000, 07:53PM
I say your wrong Zafira, if they watch how you kill something
then make it so you can't do it anymore. That does not reward
craftiness. It punishes it. There is only so many ways to solo
Tuesday, December 19 2000, 04:09AM
I agree with McD. The imms needs to leave stuff that aren't broken
alone and work on..-gulp-... skill trees more?
Ian Fawkes, still looking for his lucky charms!
Tuesday, December 19 2000, 04:31AM
I dunno, here's an odd thought. Have you eve considered that maybe
the imms might want a mob or mobs to behave a certain way, and once
they find out it/they aren't, they'll fix it and fiddle with it until
Or here's one, maybe that the mob in the poll being the only teacher
for a certain thing, it SHOULD be made more difficult so that it's
around more often to learn that certain thing?
Nah, probably not. Right? I mean, the imms must just sit up there
and watch everyone fight everything every minute of every day, and
ponder different ways to make the lives of the people that come
to play their game more miserable.
One last thing: Builders don't work on skill trees, coders
do. And as Ea has said repeatedly over the past uh... 6 months?
They're on hold. So, even if builders worked on them, they wouldn't
be doing so currently, and they should always, -always- update
their areas to be current, interesting, challenging, and of course
to give you something to complain about.
Tuesday, December 19 2000, 05:05AM
Well first of all, they don't watch, they log it.
Second, the poll doesn't say any of the things you say.
It says the mob is being soloed too much, thats all.
I guess on the last point we disagree. Wait, just about everyone
else has disagreed also. Don't update if it ain't broke.
Current? what the heck does that mean? Making things in spec?
Well the specs were already published beforehand.
Interesting, purely subjective crap.
Challenging, all the mobs are challenging enough as is.
As for the last point, geez, I'm so grateful they screw things
up so I get to complain.
You sound like one of those people that can't stand to see
anything about imms criticized.
Tuesday, December 19 2000, 09:40AM
I agree with Malia that the mob should be around more often, being a
skill teacher and all. However, I don't think that, short of making it a
L51 mob, making him harder is going to achieve that goal. Besides, the
poll doesn't raise issue with how often Suger is dead, but rather how
often he is killed by "less than the 3 level 50 characters he was intended
I think the key point here is the issue of risk to reward. People will
find ways to get around any risk if the reward is high enough. (For
example, Sainglend was often soloed or taken by small groups.) The
problem with Suger is that he has 3 seperate rewards that people
might be after... and xp isn't one of them. What makes this worse is
that two of those rewards aren't always there, so naturally people kill
him over and over again! Look how often Cian is dead, I bet you'll
see the same thing.
Tuesday, December 19 2000, 12:15PM
We log mobkills? Heh, I can't believe you actually think that. =P
But hey, whatever flips your burger.
Tuesday, December 19 2000, 01:30PM
Well geez, let me take back some of that credit I gave you.
I guess you really do just sit there and watch ppl kill it.
Very bright indeed.
Tuesday, December 19 2000, 01:32PM
Furthermore, thats one more reason the poll is crap. You say
it's killed by less than 3 L50, but you don't even log it.
What you gonna say you did a random statistical sample, plz.
Gimme a break.
Tuesday, December 19 2000, 02:43PM
We don't log fights. We've never logged fights. Most likely we never
will log fights. We do, however, keep track of what level character
has killed a mob. If this is what you meant by 'logging', then yes,
we do do that.
Hope that clarifies things.
Tuesday, December 19 2000, 07:18PM
Yes, thats basically what I meant. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Tuesday, December 19 2000, 07:27PM
I can't speak for any of the other builders, but I, for one, often
pop in on people I notice killing certain mobs in my area, to make
sure they are acting the way they are supposed to. Porohuktuk and the
polar bear are prime examples - I have watched many different people
kill both of them and talked with them afterwards to see how balanced
they were, how they could be improved, or to see why they weren't
working as intended.
Basic mobkill numbers don't necessarily do this, but they give us a hint
that the mobs aren't necessarily working the way they were intended to
or that maybe the reward is just a bit too high/low, or whatever. A level
13 character solo'd a level 50 mob that was intended to take 3 50's to
kill? Or, the mob is being solo'd more often than not and it wasn't
intended to be mainly a solo mob? While you may not see me standing
there watching the fight (I could be invis, switched into the mob, one
of the alts in the group, or you might not even be in the group), while
the fights may be staged on a test mud, we don't just arbitrarily
look at this stuff and pull solutions out of thin air.
Wednesday, December 20 2000, 08:54AM
I agree Cheyla, that can be very important for new areas.
Wednesday, December 20 2000, 03:40PM
Did Charity come to this conclusion, or is this a conclusion
that any immort can come up with, as far as changing
a mob in an area that "doesn't fit the roll it was intended
to" or whatever...
Curious for future moanin,
Thursday, December 21 2000, 10:52AM
I can see a few different scenarios:
- a builder looks to change their mob cuz it's not working the way
they meant it to (true in this case)
- a mob is clearly buggy (causing crashes, written acts just don't trigger
the way they were meant to, etc) in which case if the builder wasn't
around to fix the problem, anyone could
- Sandra as head builder or Kaige as implementor determined that a mob
was a problem
So a random imm couldn't just up and mess around with another imm's
creation, if that's what you meant.
Saturday, December 23 2000, 08:53AM
It don't matter how tough it is, the mob still needs to be
killed for the key. Move that elsewhere for starters.