Posted by Poetry on 01/10
I think there is too much of it. Most players can heal more
than their total amount of hps pretty easily. Pkill in legend is more
about getting to the healers, or carrying some healing items, or
items that regen mana for healing, than anything else.
Maybe we should take away focus from giving fighters the ability
to heal also... and give focus to taking away the healing powers
of mages with lowly 50 mind thats worth 330 hps in roots 11
I think we should weaken cure crit, and FIGHTING druids too
(I didnt say full druids). I think we should change healing like this:
o cure light ONLY for cause 10-14hps per cast at 100mind
o cure serious for create about 20-25 hps per cast at 100mind
o 60 spirit augment down to 45 hps
o Byebye Corentinus
o Byebye healing stone
o Byebye new healing ring
o Byebye cure crit and glowing roots
o Drink at the well of trust healing a bit more (more for healing after
battle, than healing during battle)
So maybe after all this, we will find that fighters no longer need
a "boost". Maybe con wont even suck.
Tuesday, January 09 2001, 09:44AM
Those are some major changes you're suggesting there. It's a
little more than a 'tweak', just to improve one char type - fighters.
I love chars that can self-heal. I once tried to play a straight
fighter, and quickly decided it wasn't for me, due to healing.
If people want to play fighters with high hit, high dam, high HPs
then they need to realise that the price of that is self-healing.
My chars, whether druids, surgeons or mages all give up some
fighting ability so they can self heal, among other things.
I don't pkill. As far as I'm concerned my healing spells or skills
arent unbalancing, precisely because I don't pkill. I don't see
why all my chars should have one of their major advantages taken
away from them. It would be like saying to a con fighter, your
major advantage is high HPs, well, we're going to downgrade that
because some other char type doesn't like the fact that they don't
And consider low levels - my young creates rely on glowing roots a
lot more heavily than my high level creates. Its their level 3
spell. You can say to a high level char yes we've downgraded your
healing ability, so go find a healer. But what about the low
level chars? Healers get faster xp grouping with high levels or
even with lowbie fighters than they do grouping with lowbie mages.
Leave healing as it is, please. (Although giving creates a similar
spell to glowing roots in terms of healing ability, but without the
need to be hungry enough to eat would be nice.)
Tuesday, January 09 2001, 12:45PM
can't say i agree with Poetry's tweaks
but i really like the idea of taking away cure crit
giving the create 20-25heal and cause mages just cure light
Tuesday, January 09 2001, 02:11PM
Can't really agree with the major changes poetry mentions.
Playing characters without healing ability is sooooo slow and boring.
Don't see why cause should lose cure crit if creates keep roots.
Less healing in the game just means more people sitting around
complaining about it taking too long to heal.
Tuesday, January 09 2001, 02:33PM
Although Poetry did not address the specifics, here is why 'healing'
mid-fight is unbalanced from a PK perspective:
A 100 dex/mind char is balanced with a 100 con/mind by the fact that
the con fighter has more HP and the dex fighter hits better (in theory).
Now, when the dex mage heals 400 HP he is back at full, whiles the con
mage who heals 400 HP is at maybe 75% full. Now when they re-engage
who will win?
Am I saying we should take out healing? Nope. Am I saying that healing
should be based on max HP? Nope. I do not know the solution. I can
tell you how EverQuest solved this problem, but the fight system there
for melee is 100 times more complex than here so it does not apply. To
fix it here we may need to make healing have serious skill lag AND make
it so you cannot heal in safe rooms or one person rooms or any other
type of room that you can be safe from attack in (this would only apply
to PK damage, or course).
Tuesday, January 09 2001, 03:47PM
Good God! Stop the Madness! Now the vocal minority want to cripple
I think it's time we all remembered that LegendMUD is not a pkill MUD.
It's a MUD with the option to pkill as an extension of role-play.
Yes, pkill is unbalanced. Do you know why pkill is unbalanced? It's
because some players are very, very smart at building pkillers and
others are dumber than bricks. And there's no way to code around this
fact of life.
You don't have a right to win at pkill -- especially if you insist on
playing a character type which is universally known to suck at pkill.
Eighty percent of winning at pkill is in how you build your character.
If you choose to build a character which is universally known to suck
at pkill, please don't blame the system, find a mirror and blame the
person staring back at you.
Now normally I wouldn't care what happens in the pkill world, but the
incessant whining for change by the vocal minority is beginning to affect
my game play in two ways:
First, directly of course, throught their cries for retroactive equipment
changes. Because the vocal minority is too lazy or too stubborn to build
from one of the successful pkiller templates, the equipment which I've
played so long and hard to acquire and maintain may be yanked to
compensate them for their reluctance to build a viable pkiller. Yes, it's
a selfish motive on my part, but I think seniority should have its
Secondly, it distracts and frustrates the Imms. The Imms must use a lot
of time and energy to respond to these incessant demands and implement
changes to 'fix' them -- time and energy which would be better used in
finishing skilltrees and in the building of new areas. Ironically, once
skilltrees goes in, we'll have to go through a balancing process anyway.
Why not just suspend further tweaking of the MUD until the new system
goes in? In the meantime the builders can concentrate on building new
areas for us to explore -- my favorite aspect of the game.
Many people have expressed that pkill as it exists is not fair. Well,
life ain't fair and this is not a pkill MUD. The semi-official purpose
of pkill is to provide an extension to role-play. As such it's unimportant
who wins and who loses since it shouldn't be happening as much as it does.
The Quake-style pkillers will all scream bloody murder when they read this
paragraph and vehemently object that that is not how they wish to play.
Save your ink. I'm not interested in pkill for pkill's sake. I wish the
Imms would come out once and for all with a statement of the intended
purpose of pkill and set their priorities accordingly. No longer should
the tail wag the dog.
So in conclusion,
To the Imms: Stop trying to tweak the MUD to provide the instant
gratification demanded by the vocal minority, and get back to work on
skilltrees and the building of new and bigger areas for us to explore.
Incorporate their concerns in skilltrees if you want, but don't let
yourself be diverted from your primary task. Keep all your work on the
To the whiners who have built a character that sucks at pkill and blame
the system instead of themselves: Get over yourself! You know what
character will succeed at pkill in this environment. Go build one of
those! Archive the loser you're playing now until skilltrees are
implemented. Who knows, he/she may be good then.
With much love and affection,
Tuesday, January 09 2001, 05:31PM
Vandervecken's statement makes perfect sense to me. I used
to talk with my friends about the vocal minority and silent
majority. Im glad someone else more eloquent then I finally
put up a statement that, in my view, represents the majority
of players. I would definetly like to hear the top Imms
comments on this. Unfortunetly, and I might be wrong about
this but there might be in the Imm staff a great deal of the
vocal minority. Thats why these ideas are able to get pushed
I dont think that anyone is actually trying to make this great
mud worst through their ideas and changes. It just takes the
maturity of those in charge to make decisions on the direction
the mud takes. Sometimes they dont represent the majority,
sometimes they do. They really dont have to, this isnt some
democracy. Dont be fooled into thinking that it is.
Tuesday, January 09 2001, 05:50PM
I don't really have any plans for removing the healing mobs or
items from the game at this time. I don't see it as a problem
currently, but it is always something that we have to look
at carefully when adding.
I can't speak for the coding side of things, however I do know
that Ea was tossing about ideas on how to change healing roots
to something a little better for creates so that they don't
have to starve constantly.
Tuesday, January 09 2001, 06:38PM
by god, finally a statement from a non-pk person that makes sense,
and that I agree with whole heartedly, (kudos vander)
and a append in the same message from a imm on making somthing
-better!- by god! this made my day =)
High Lord Rahvin
Tuesday, January 09 2001, 07:10PM
here's what pisses me off to no end.
as a fighting druid, I carifice quite a bit for the powers
of being able to heal myself..
now, there's a god damn ring that heals as much as I
can heal, for 2200 rent, and has 0 god damn skill lag.
we jerked +hp gear, in order to daowngrade dex, and
then we add this ring? what the hell are you guys thinking?
the damn ring is better than +hp gear, IMO.
whatever, guess I'll have to go 100 spirit/mind to outheal
a 2200 rent ring.
-Conspiracy, pissed the hell off.
Tuesday, January 09 2001, 07:13PM
Tuesday, January 09 2001, 10:22PM
PREACH ON BROTHER!!!!!
Im glad someone said it finally.
Wednesday, January 10 2001, 04:41AM
Wow, I'm impressed. When I saw all the appends I thought 'I'm in for
some major flaming here' but Vandervecken said the things I was thinking
but not game enough to say.
I had a spam augmentor. Gone now due to pkill balance. I had chars with
old hit/dam eq. EQ ripped due to pkill balance. I had chars with +HP
gear. That's in the process of being changed due to pkill balance. I
have always played dex, apart from like 3 chars, in my time on Legend.
Ea! is currently looking at the way dex works, due to pkill balance.
I don't see how a non-pkiller's ability to do or use these things affect
balance. So what if I can kill mob A better/faster/easier than another
char type. Or take longer/can't kill mob B, while another char type could
do it easily. Who were my old chars hurting? Yet all gone in the name of
Sometimes balance can be taken too far, and some of the FUN gets
sacrificed in the process.
Wednesday, January 10 2001, 05:40PM
I'm sorry, but while it may be in vogue for some of you to carp about
the changes as being solely due to pkill, you're way off base. A sniper
or mage with 50 con and 550 hp is just as unbalancing in mobkill as
it is in pkill. And what makes +hp gear any more "right" for you to
have just because you don't pkill with it? What is your gripe here,
that it's going to make mobkill harder for you? Yes, it will. But it's
no more logical for you to be able to solo mobs easily just because
there isn't another player on the other side of the fight.
Wednesday, January 10 2001, 05:56PM
I think I already have suggested this: but i will give it a try again.
If you want to weaken the healing power in pkill why don't use
a reduction of healin when in pkill timer? I mean when we
pkill we deal 80% (or whatever percentual is) of damage
taht we deal to mobs, now why when we heal in pkill if
the same (or even less) percentual of hp would be healed
we could actually bvalance out things..and non-pkillers
won't ever be touched.
To make clear my proposition: curecritic at 100 mind heals
about 80 hps at 100 mind?...when in pkil timer let it heal
50-60 hp for same mana used as before, goinf to healers
instead of healing 100hp heals 75?...etc etc
I guess the healing reduction should be equal to reduction of the
damage dealt (difference between pkill and mobkill) to be fair.
Not sure if this change is feasible for coder, but i think that
with the pkiller timer maybe would be possible and would not
interfere with non-pkillers life.
Wednesday, January 10 2001, 07:55PM
Take a break from being pissed, at least until after
Friday. As has been stated previously, spelltools
(of which the ring is one) are being changed to
Wednesday, January 10 2001, 09:17PM
I don't know if it'll make y'all feel any better, but my first thought
after reading the original post was that it wasn't a reasonable
thing to do because of the impact on non-pk'ers or mobkill in general.
If you think people heal too much in your pk battles, either agree not
to heal or don't fight with people who run off to healers. Or run to
those healers yourself and make it a part of your strategy.
Wednesday, January 10 2001, 10:15PM
just my two cents, i think the best way to make in-game healing stuff
not abused by PK would be to just make the PK timer apply to it. If you
can't go ooc, you can't get stoned, so to speak. If that affects non-PK
somehow, I'd like to know how.
But that's just my opinion. Feel free to flame me.
- Aginor C., already getting the fireproof pants.