Discussion Archives Index

skill balance|U6

Current Index

Posted by McDonald on 01/30

Ok, first off this post is an extension of some of the discussion we had at the last q&a. Sure imms may not be working on these things, but we discuss just for discussions sake, and maybe to influence things in the future. Someone made the comment that maybe backstab shouldn't work unless your sneaking. This is an interesting idea in itself, but the idea I had was slightly different. Backstab is the only initiating attack in the game. Yes, you can start a fight with a headbutt or a bash, but you can also do it midfight. Having a skill only initiate combat and also it have a flag so you can't do it over and over allows you to make it more powerful. Lets think about what backstab can do. First a lot of damage. None of the other skills do this. Secondly, it also has the chance to stun, same as some other skills. Lastly, if it does stun, a second thing occurs. You can flee and backstab again. No other skill gives this ability. This can be very devastating. Well to clarify a wfw stun or any other stun could be used to set up a backstab too, but only dex fighters can take advantage of this. Now Ea said this was actually a perc attack, which may be so, but only dex fighters can do it, so im not sure how relevant that is to the game. This skill seems like it might be overpowered. Just the fact that con and str don't have initiating attacks limits them somewhat. The other skill that does damage that is good on stunned is also dex, kick. I think it would go a long way to balance things if con and dex were given initiating attacks. Surely a str fighter could put someone in a headlock and give them a little tweak. Or a con fighter could smash someone over the head. Both of these could do big damage, and have a chance for stun. Actually the con fighter skill would be closer to the mark because it could be made so that you need to be using a con weapon. Sure something could be thought of for str too. Anyway this is just to encourage discussion because board is quiet, and because it generating a bit of discussion in Q&A. peace |U6

From: Cerberus Friday, January 26 2001, 07:51PM -Cackle- Idea is good, but I think all initiating attacks should require sneak, hide or invis to stun or para. |U6

From: Skar Friday, January 26 2001, 07:59PM First, I don't really agree that str and con need backstab equivalents. (Well, maybe con... heh.) Second, you wouldn't have to require invisi- bility or sneaking for such an attack. Just for sake of argument, an initiating attack for a strength fighter could be a charge skill that you initiated from one room away from your target -- you'd charge in and give them a big bash with similar bash lag on the victim but lots more bash damage. Maybe a decreased chance of dodging or making the charger auto-rage. Going along with McDonald's suggestion, you could only charge once in a fight. (In practice, however, this isn't true -- people wait out the tick limit.) See? A plausible strength skill that could be tweaked to be as devastating as backstab, give it a tick limit and you have an initiating attack that doesn't require sneaking or invisibility. |U6

From: Skar Friday, January 26 2001, 08:05PM Not that I think strength fighters need such a skill. Just a thought exercise. :) |U6

From: Cerberus Friday, January 26 2001, 09:32PM -nod Scar- A good idea too. Maybe it should just be dependant on the skill then. |U6

From: Chaykin Saturday, January 27 2001, 04:37AM There's a difference between my backstab idea and your ideas though McDonald: the change to backstab wouldn't be too hard to do. Your idea means adding new skills into the game, and the imms have said several times, recently I might add, that they are not going to do this until trees go in. They even said it at the Q&A you mentioned. So why don't we try to focus on solutions that are actually possible? Chay blah blah blah |U6

From: McDonald Saturday, January 27 2001, 11:50AM I said already I don't care what they are doing. this is just for discussion. Adding 2 skills would not HAVE to wait to skill trees, because they would be on the bottom of the tree. Just like backstab is, but whatever who cares. If you want to promote your idea or soemthing start a thread about it. Hard to believe after the way I worded that people still post negative crap. Sneak and hide are too limited on this mud. Detect hidden should not see sneak in my opinion. If you mean if someone is sneaking they can backstab that might be semi O.K., but if someone with detect hidden can't be backstabbed I think it would be sorta bad. Some muds make detect hidden only see people hidding with a spell. I like it that way much better. In that system if you use hide spell you can hit enter, rest, meditate without breaking hide, but with hide skill if you hit enter at all you break hide. So really I'm not sure if your idea would make things better or not. Another idea is to have the hardcoded awareness flag which lasts for a tick or 2, be gradual. Ie right after your backstabbed the awareness is at 100 percent and you can't be backstabbed, then the percentage would drop each tick dependant upon certain stats. Does perc make the most sense? I don't think we need to turn detect hidden into another awareness flag basically. Too often spells just do too much. Sorta like detect illusions. Maybe you should have to dispel magic any illusion even if you know its an illusion. |U6

From: Darkheart Sunday, January 28 2001, 01:55AM If it is indeed a perc skill, it should be changed so that the damage does not depend on the weight of the weapon wielded, renamed slightly as "surprise attack" and make it available regardless of weapon used. Even so i doubt there'd be much change in the emphasis of dex in sniper type chars due to those two stats going hand-in-hand (another thing about dex, it's got far more application possibilities imho than other sta stats), but hey, thought indeed. Dh |U6

From: Rictor Tuesday, January 30 2001, 12:25AM Backstab is a perc skill? My god thats funny, yeah, backstab a perc skill. So, say I want to make a 100 con 100 perc charecter, I should be able to backstab with my weapon because its a perc skill right? I would say unfortunatly, I can't because you need a DEX based weapon to backstab, thus making it a DEX dependant skill, if not completely a dex based skill. Yeah, I don't know what the heck all the rest of you are saying, perc based. -Rictor |U6

From: Arn Tuesday, January 30 2001, 03:49AM Just because you need to use a certain type of weapon for the skill, doesn't mean that the skill isn't a perc skill. I seem to recall some strength guy with high perc roaming around and backstabbing things not long ago then drawing his strength weapon. |U6

From: Testboy Tuesday, January 30 2001, 06:25AM You can't land backstabs without dex. |U6

From: McDonald Tuesday, January 30 2001, 01:18PM Just think, make these skills and you could have a str perc low dex char. Str and con could use an attack based on fightstat, with weapon weight and quality factored in. Would make things more fun wouldn't it. Making it high perc dependant and prime stat, would make dex less needed. That sounds like fun. Give Str charge, and con stun skill. Has chance of knockout on critical hit, but primarily lots of damage. Hitting someone over the back of the head with club, Make it not work on aware people. That would be fun I think. |U6


Current Index