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Posted by Emrysia on 10/03

Dear fellow druids, those who are healed by them, and immorts.

As you all may or may not know, there has been a change recently to a herb source in ancient greece. Those who once sold unlimited numbers of herbs, now sell only 5 of each herb per repop, which, according to my research happens every 18 ticks.

As a druid I often make use of this herb source, t though it certainly isn't my only source. However, for large runs, having a large number of the same kind of herb is a must. When lives hang in the balance and people are depending on you to make and apply quickly, you can't be scarmbling to find out what kind of herbs you have left. (which when you look in you herb bag, you often don't get a chance to see what's there because the fight spam scrolls by so quickley.) Which is why I always carry 2 herb-bags. One to hold the herbs i pick-up along the way, and the other full of one kind of herb.

Considering the number of druids who use this source in ancient greece, this recent changes seems rather extreme. In my opinion a supply of 20-50 herbs (especially healing herbs) per repop would be more reasonable.

If you think this is an extreme change and requires some tweaking, please append your name to this post.

Thank you,


From: DeSade Saturday, September 15 2001, 12:04PM

I agree!


From: Sandra Saturday, September 15 2001, 12:19PM

The unlimited supply was due to a bug and has been fixed. If 5 is the max limit currently, then most likely that will be raised a bit. Don't, however, expect 20-50 herbs to be sold per repop by this vendor. There are plenty of herb vendors out there, and plenty of herbs just lying around on the ground to be picked up.

In any case, I would consider looking into the other herb vendors in the game, and making use of them as well.


From: Sigrid Saturday, September 15 2001, 12:28PM

As much as i'd like an easy (and cheap) supply of herbs I'm afraid i'll have to admit than even before the witches opened their shop in greece it was possible to fill your dert bag every day.

Unless druids has been spawned in numbers close to rabbits lately i do not fear for the weight of my dert bag, more for my own weight.. it might take a bit more effort to actually trace down the needed herbs.

Sigrid Icelander

From: Kelvar Saturday, September 15 2001, 01:50PM

this shouldnt have happened and i suppurt all druids

From: Sammael Saturday, September 15 2001, 02:30PM

just going to be a lot rentier, since garlic is the "easiest" to aquire, but also the rentiest, over 3 times the rent of groundcover.

From: Dank Saturday, September 15 2001, 09:59PM

I think this should be tweaked in all fairness to our druids here on legen legend mud.

Dank, as in, Dark.

From: Milo Saturday, September 15 2001, 10:37PM

Before the witches were put in, I and other druids got along just fine by scavenging for herbs, and running to multiple vendors. The unlimited herb supply was nice, but truthfully it made us soft. I see more expected of druids now. While one that carried 100 herbs was once considered well-stocked, now people don't even blink an eye at 200 herbs. Where once druids were brought on runs to mostly heal for the big mobs, now they are expected to use poultices for hounds and pirates. Bandages have become the limiting reagent.

As a result of this, druids are now more plentiful, and surgeons have become scarce.

I don't believe that the herb supply should go back to being unlimited. But we have to decide, do we want to go back to a paucity of herbs, and perhaps see many druids become frustrated and quit that alt? Or to continue with an abundant supply of herbs and see druids replace surgeons as primary healers? Or something in the midst of this?

This is more than an issue of how we herb run, but of balance.

From: Emrysia Sunday, September 16 2001, 12:08AM

In reply to some of the appends...

It was never my intention to suggest we go back to unlimited herbs at the witches, only to suggest that 5 per re-pop seems a drastic change.

I was never aware that it was a bug that caused the witches to be unlimited. And I am perfectly willing to visit the other herb vendors and or scavange my own.


From: WindChime Sunday, September 16 2001, 05:16AM

As someone who runs druids often, a larger herb source is almost a must now adays. Back when the limit was put in place, there were very few druids who needed massive amounts of herbs because they primarily ran solo or with just a select few people. Most people just didnt use healers at first, prefering to sit and heal and chat. With runs like SL, and PD, a and AT, where a druid is almost a requirement for a safe run, 5 of each herb at repop is to hard to stock/restock herbs for a run. A druid has to sit at the herb source for 10 repops to fill one bag, 20 for a rune. With all the druids who tend to run now, that is almost impossible to run between all the herb sources and try to restock herbs. And there are not enough herbs to be found laying about to even begin to restock or stock. While I agree, unlimited is off kilter, cant you at least agree with the players and raise the sell limit to 10 or 20 per repop? With the number of druids who require these herbs at a time, I do not think this is an unfair request, or idea.

From: Celeste Sunday, September 16 2001, 06:25AM

Okie, umm.

I totally and utterly disagree that making the unlimited greek herbsellers more like the normal herbsellers was a bad thing.

As I understand it, augment is allowed to be as powerful as it is even at minimum stats because it comes at the price of having to cart herbs and bandages around. I was a druid "back in the old days" or whatever, and I still am one now. I pk (not very much anymore! but a lot at one point "in the old days") with druid pkillers. Before it was fashionable (before nospam). Then, as now, I think that herb supplies should _not_ be a matter of filling up a dert bag by pressing ENTER 10 times in a row.

I'm not saying I didn't like it, I loved it.

It indulged my lazy side, and I'm very lazy.

But in a way that may not be immediately obvious, it made augment overpowered. Before, at least, if you used an entire DERT in a pk fight, you'd at least have a while running on empty or only a few herbs while waiting for the herbs to repop, if there were other druids around. Even more so if you were having rent problems from all the extra pk goodies. (Yay for pk goodies). With that unlimited supply, the more subtle checks on augment were removed. I could fight someone, not caring how many herbs I used because I could refill them by pressing the ENTER key 10 times in a row. No more worries about, hmm, should I carry more, in case I have a secondary jump before I have herbs, etc etc.

I used to go to SL all the time. With 150-200 herbs. I disagree with the people saying it's hard to maintain herbs. All 200 of my herbs were fenugreek. ;) It just takes a little effort. So ya, alas for unlimited herbies, but hey...I've missed chasing fenugreek.



From: Hevydd Sunday, September 16 2001, 07:46AM

I have 7 DERT bags full of 15 rent healing herbs - and I never purchased a single one of them. Maybe I need a life, but I believe that a real herbalist, for RP reasons if not anything else, should be able to forage for their herbs on their own, or at least use the sold herbs as purely a backup or emergency source. I am proud of my collections ( I even used non-druid alts to stock up on those herbs when playing and give them to druid friends since, hey, herbs are free and since you see them, they're useful so you might as well pick them for friends) but I realised people didn't seem to bat an eyelash when I proudly displayed my available stock for a run. Some people even questioned why I didn't heal when the tank had less than 100hp to be healed while a surgeon was pumping away. It seems that the availability of unlimited herbs (limited through cash, which most people would be willing to pay anyway), has degraded the value of herbs, supposedly the livelihood of a druid. Perhaps 5 a repop is too slow, perhaps not. Having never bought a healing herb, I cannot comment.

However, I believe that if you just ran PD with your entire stock of' herbs, you cannot really expect to be instantly available to heal for SL or AT, given the power of your healing. Judicious use of herbs will be the key to conserving herbs. Get your friends to help you stock up if you need 50 healing herbs in 10 minutes after a run - it possible with a BIT more effort, and a LOT more exploration of the MUD.

I don't know if AT still has that HUGE stock of herbs in there, but if they do, then the situation is mitigated. That herb may not be the most ideal rent-wise, but it's certainly very useful if all people need the druid for is healing for a run, rather than companionship.

Hevydd the Ancient

From: Ganja Monday, September 17 2001, 02:27AM

Well i'm glad to see its all fine and dandy that we all get to run around like freaking chickens with our heads cut off as all the herb-supplies dry up and become a complete pain ya you all can maintain a bunch of dert bags for runs once in a while when i'm actually active i use between 60-470 herbs a day oh horror, i'm an active pkiller, i don't abuse any system to get xp i don't futher a bunch of people by running them around all the time i just purly use it to kill kill kill, now you all say that its "way too m much for anyone to use and it over powers augment" well i'm still sad to say i'm limited by 35 mana an augment carrying bandages around having to deal with 3 rounds of skill just to make it

i admit that the unlimited light-lowrent herb was out of balance but for some of us who actually use our druids for more then group running and healing our friends, the supply was nice it kept me able to do what i like to do which isn't run around and ask everyone ask i smoke through all my move beating other people to herbs, i ask "why not just make it a less desirable herb"

make it the rentiest out of class healing herb there is because i'll buy it w/o a problem so i can concentrate on doing what i like which isn't being nice....

and so while your kicking snipers in the balls, and taking the fun out of druids, when are you going to limit the amount of bandages sold and bandage making material for those annoying aiders?


From: Fairfax Monday, September 17 2001, 07:12AM

Annoying aiders? What's wrong with first aid? It takes ages to recover any useful amount of hps (at least at higher levels), and it's more for us poor surgeons who have just hit something and have 10 minutes or so of RL time to patch ourselves up. Compared with what you'd get from one augmented poultice, it's really not much.

Of course, if you compare the time it would take a druid to start looking for herbs, and making a poultice, using it, and THEN hunting down the 'annoying aider', first aid might be pretty useful indeed.

I also feel called to remind you that bandages and make bandage materials are also to the benefit of druids, at least those who have the skill.

M.B.B.S. (Madras)

From: Rikimaru Monday, September 17 2001, 07:02PM

the point is if you get unlimited healing supplies, i want it too fairfax, just seems to walk out and slap you in the head, just thought i'd point that out, and i love the way i don't think and act like really have any basis on this subject, i don't even have a druid

From: Kyna Monday, September 17 2001, 10:00PM

As someone who has one of those 'annoying first aiders' and who had druids before the Ancient Greece update, I'd like to say that for self healing capabilities, the druids win hands down.

First aiders are limited too - by the weight of the bandages, by the limited amount of HPs that first aid gives, by the lag every single time they use those bandages. If you were to calculate the HPs available in a DERT bag full of fenugreek, by the time a first aider had made enough bandages and healed that many HPs, enough fenugreek would have repopped to restock the DERT bag.

My druids did a lot of solo running, and ran with 2 DERTs, yet I always managed to have 20-40 fenugreek in my house, waiting to restock if my DERTs ran low.

This is not a comment about the recent change, this is a response to those who think first aiders are not limited - the biggest limit being the amount of bandages a first aider can carry.

Kyna's player

From: Poetry Tuesday, September 18 2001, 01:59PM

I was a druid years ago without all the spoils that you little kids have gotten used to and taken for granted. Even if the witches provide ONE herb per repop, its more than I had access to, and I did just fine.

Sorry, but its very hard to have sympathy. There are greater problems in legend that need help... stop crying over the loss of a bug that offered you conveniences that have spoiled you.


From: Giovani Tuesday, September 18 2001, 07:52PM

You druids complain too much. I have a druid as an alt and I never have trouble getting herbs. I just tell everyone that I'll be back in 10 and I run around with my triggers going haywire. Sure it's spammy and it takes a little effort and knowledge of where the herbs actually grow, but you'd be surprised to find that all the herbs you need generally grow close to large towns (With the exception of Indus).


From: Lachesis Tuesday, September 18 2001, 11:54PM

i enjoy being an "old school" herb runner. I hardly even buy them, unless i really -have- to. That takes the fun out of it. I mean, that buying the herbies is always an easy way. Where's the challenge?


From: Wilhelm Saturday, September 22 2001, 05:01AM

Indeed, herbs are few and far between, and unless you intend to scatter herbs far more widely, or provide more herb sources, it does seem that more herbs should indeed be available in greece. Failing that, why not just give all herbs the keyword herb, and allow augmented poultices to use two herbs with the same effect?

this would also serve to fix some of the problems

From: Sandra Saturday, September 22 2001, 11:20PM

Herbs are few and far between? Hardly. You should maybe go out looking a little better, I think.



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