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Posted by Somar on 10/22

Figured I'd offer some thoughts about the current system, what I feel is wrong with it, and how these problems can be corrected. I know I've whined and ranted about much of this before, but hey, it doesn't hurt to continue to express my opinions and ideas.

First of all, one of the features of pkok that really needs to go is the allowance of multiple pk chars. I really feel that the rule that was initially in place for pk should stand, for all the same reasons that it previously existed: to cut down on destructive crossplay.

I'd also like to complain in general about the pkok system. It seems like a good system in theory, however, so is communism. The fact is, neither solves the problem in practice that it was intended to. Pkok was instituted as a means to try to cut down on harrasment because, as close as I can figure, the administration was tired of dealing with harrasment. However, it really seems that there has been little or no improvement in that regard.

I'll continue on my long standing stance of 'old pk is the bomb', and will stick with it until someone manages to convince me otherwise. Just throwing some thoughts out there in writing. For the rest of you who care about the current system: Never give up the fight! :)


From: Stain Thursday, October 18 2001, 09:30PM

Amen! Preach it, brotha! (clap) (clap) (clap)

From: Randei Friday, October 19 2001, 12:10AM

I agree with Somar, old pk was alot more fun.

It did have its problems, but so does any system you implement.

Also, I've noticed more & more players who have no clue what old pk is, so no new players will really have an opinion on this. If they got a taste of it, it'd be nice to have a concensus on what all of the active pkillers thought.

From: Freja Friday, October 19 2001, 03:39AM

I don't see the problem, I've said it before and I'll say it again All it really takes is an agreement between a group of players (and if you all really want the old system back, this should drive you to keep that agreement) Where you all accept each other and aren't allowed to reject each other. I also do not see a problem with having multiple pkenabled characters, since you don't accept someone's alts just by accepting them - the choice is all yours.

-Lady Freja

From: Chaykin Friday, October 19 2001, 10:31PM

No, but you do accept all of someone's alts by accepting all. Accept all is the option in the game that has been given by immortals to players who are interested in something like old pk, but it is crippled by the multiple-alt pk harassment issue.

I've seen this argument many times now of "if pkillers want it badly enough, they can arrange it on their own." Why should they have to? A feature of the game (the pk system) was removed, and as part of its replacement (pkok) the immortals offered players an option to simulate old-style pk (accept all). But this option doesn't work the way it's supposed to, because of the issue of alts and pk harassment. It's a flaw in the pk system.

You can say "just reject those you don't like," and that works just fine unless you are accepting all. You can say "don't accept all," but what other option remains for those who want to simulate old-style pk? I don't see why players should be expected to take on the huge burden of maintaining a collective, dynamic accept list in order to correct a flaw in a coded game feature. Think about it logically: the kind of coordination and consensus it would take to maintain exactly the same accept list among 20 or 30 players (that's a conservative number) does not exist on this mud anywhere, let alone in pkill. And it's not going to just magically appear because people want it--it doesn't work that way.

If 20 or 30 non-pkillers want to prove me wrong by all getting together and maintaining exactly the same gag list for a period of a month, be my guest. My guess is it won't happen because it is too big of a hassle-- which proves my point.


From: Freja Saturday, October 20 2001, 03:05AM

I still don't see why it should be such a big problem. A title is a great way to let others know that you're interested in pkilling the old way. So you see someone on who's interested like you you accept him, he accepts you, and you stay accepted.

Maybe you cannot get a list of 20 people right away, but everytime you meet someone who wants it the old way, you accept them too, and soon you should have a long list.

But of course, instead of trying it out, it's easier to demand a 'code change'


From: Ea! Saturday, October 20 2001, 12:12PM

I'm fairly confident that the number of cases of reported pk-abuse has dropped significantly with pkok. Before, admins would spend significant periods of time dealing with pk-harassment issues. People would be force-enabled with some frequency, whereas I can only think of a handful (at most) cases where that's happened since pkok went in.

There may still be harassment, but people have it in their power to stop it.

I've also been noticing that it's not unusal at peak times to see twelve or thirteen pkok-all people on. In the old system, that number of enabled people on at the same time was a rareity.


From: Sammael Saturday, October 20 2001, 12:33PM

give it up guys, its here to stay. Either except it, sit ooc and never use it, or leave. Its really your only options. As you can see, I've chose choice 2 :) Back to being afk and playing DAoC!

- Sammael

P.S. I do feel there is a flaw in this system, much as chaykin put it, but I also know from my talks with Ea! and others that THEY don't see it as a flaw, and until they do, nothings going to change no matter how many of these posts spring up. Good luck though.

From: Frankie Monday, October 22 2001, 09:11AM

Freja - in response to one of your appends, of course it's easier to request code changes than try to work out a complex system of accepts. This MUD wouldn't be anything like it is now if we all accepted only player involvement rather than coding. For example, all the mud would be is an IRC channel. Players would all have paper copies of the combat system printed out from text files, and we could all roll dice and report the results to each other. My point is, simply, that there are some code changes that can significantly enhance the quality of our lives here, including such things as the random number generator, combat system, and more. I honestly feel that old pk would also enhance the quality of our lives. Not quite so much as some of the other options, but enough to justify requesting a change.


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