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Posted by Dae on 12/16

alright, so let's be realistic, the days of forming chant guh lak vya ex group of friends and causing havoc is over, people no longer need to fear others, no longer need to depend on friends in a way to back them in pk anymore, the days of of that are gone, over, Now is this a bad thing? only to those who lived in it, breathed it, those are the people that only signed on to kill, or be killed, pk thrill seeker days are no more in a year or more, most of us will be gone, no one will remember what it was like except the imms who had alts then, or older players it's a forgotten legacy, we are now much more friendly is it sad? very, will we all miss it? probably what can we do about it? nothing, because honestly people will never stop complaining, or whining, pkok is here to stay, it's not going anywhere, it's hard to accept, I sympathize with you poetry, and all the other hardcores, but legend will no longer entertain you in that fashion, I hope you can find the light like so many others,


From: Kae Monday, December 03 2001, 06:47AM

I know this has been said before, and it probably will be again, but I still feel the need to point it out as an alternative to the two options that Poetry lines up (oldschool vs. duels).

To get the excitement and thrill of never knowing who's going to jump you when or where, accept many people. Accept clans. Have your clan accept clans.

I'm finding as a player and as an immortal both, that even -with- pkok in, there are some players who can't handle the heat and turn pkill into whinefests on boards, channels, and even mudmails. I for one don't want to waste more time playing neither kindergarten teacher nor dealing with this as a mortal than I absolutely have to.

Yet I've managed to place my morts in a situation where I have yet to 'ask for a duel' to get some excitement. I still get hunted. I still die at inconvenient times. Yes, the ratio of jump is lower, I'll give that.

I still feel that with a little careful planning, a little GM cooperation, and most of all, a refusal to play with those who hide behind pkok in the best of 'chicken' fashion (you won, I'm gonna reject you until you're weak!), we can get a good gaming experience out of this system.

Darth Kae

From: Craven Monday, December 03 2001, 09:37AM

Its a great idea Kae, but much like communisim, it'll never work due to human nature. We want the excitement, the fear, the fun of it all, but when it comes down to it and we're 3 mil from perma, are willing to stay on that line? Or maybe dusk just multi'd my friend twice, am i willing to keep treading that line? Intentions are always for the best, but intentions dont last long. I don't blame the imms or the players for the current pk situation, but it is dead, whether you want to admit it or not and no GM cooperation or imm involvment is going to fix it. To be honest, I don't think even reinstating the old system would fix this. To many of the older players have already abandoned the game and I just don't think their is enough support. As for the few "hardcore" players still around, I do sympathize, but your really wasting your time. Sorry, move on like the rest of us and enjoy the memories, but realize that they are just that. Memories.

- David, the player of countless PKillers, both before and after pkok

From: Poetry Monday, December 03 2001, 10:08AM

I am defeated, I guess.

I forget that I have a ferocious killer instinct that enables me to survive in the harshest of settings... and a very pleasant alternative to Legend... a life in RL.

A lot of people that play here dont have this. People like me wreak too much havoc to peoples online lives. I am fearless, but most people arent. Thats the difference, right? You guys need this place to be secure in the same way that I need RL to be secure. I need to live in a country where there is government, order, police.. where my safety is guarrenteed from bandits.

Some people seem to need this here on legend, because they no viable alternative for interaction, acheivement, and selfworth in RL.

Since I do, my stakes are less. My values for this place are different than most people... thats what I understand from all this PKOK stuff.

This is a community. And the community has to be protected from criminals much in the way that the RL community needs protection.

The only difference is that there are gods with absolute powers in this world.

I wonder if we could figure out a way to deal with pkilling derelicks in the same way the RL deals with them. Can we create a mob police force? When people attack others in a non-duel situation they gain a notoriety... certain mobs become agg to them, they get refused rent in certain places, automatic police forces hunt them down and jail them if caught. I could survive under those circumstances..... and that would be a very interesting experiment in legend's society! The more crime you commit.. the more shops and places start to shun you and go agg on you. There could be a couple very hostile areas that characters like that will be forced to live in. The law abiding legend poplution can stay in more civilized areas with a strong force of police to protect them. Asssasins would have to sneak into cities undercover to jump anyone, etc.

I know its a lot of coding and wishful thinking, but it would create one hell of an interesting microcosm of earth.

Anyway, Im just causing trouble. The potential of this idea sounds great to me, but then again, no one ever likes my ideas cause they differ so much than the legendite thats here to socialize get married, and feel good about reaching level 50.


From: Kae Monday, December 03 2001, 11:28AM

Actually I'd LOVE to see more areas thinking along those lines. It's not possible with the current code, but we get a bit better toys to use every year the codebase continues to get expanded. I don't think it will be possible to include players fighting players, but at least where mobkill and mob interaction responding is concerned, this is the road I'd like my areas to go.

--Darth Kae

From: Cheyla Monday, December 03 2001, 11:43AM

PKOK-wise, it's not possible, but mob-kill-wise, it is, and has already seen a bit of conceptual work in some places and is in plans for one of the new areas being worked on.

Personally, I disagree with a mud-wide knowledge of your actions. Realistically, few in ancient would have known of your actions in industrial, or even between areas in one timeframe. And even if they did, few would be likely to care.

Mob-wise (with no relation to PK), I'd like to see more of this utilized on an area basis, it just takes a lot of planning and time to properly implement. Crusades does a decent job in the general sense, but it could be taken so much further than that.


From: Dae Monday, December 03 2001, 03:12PM

I'd like to see cities ran by players or immortals -a place a citizen can seek haven, have a house, shops with multiple cities (7-8?) you choose to join based on your class, or views of the world or something if you kill a player from that city you are enemied just a couple thoughts for the grinder, see if you can find anything of value in there

From: Dae Monday, December 03 2001, 03:14PM

by enemied I ment be killed when entering that area, and the body ejected out

From: Kae Monday, December 03 2001, 04:24PM

Forgive me. By 'possible' I mean 'doable without spending hours and weeks tearing my hair out, and then even more debugging and maintaining'. -grin- Cheyla's right, almost anything is possible, but we still need to evaluate time spent doing vs. result.

That said, I want to suggest that if you do wander through an area, and observe or commit an action that ought to have a response from the locals, the IDEA channel is a good way to maybe actually see it installed. You can also mudmail the area's maintainer with more complex/longish ideas.

(My god, what am I doing?! More work!).

Seriously, though -- all areas get updated at some point or other, and while an idea may sit in the logs for a long time, it will eventually get considered, and rejected or implemented. No area is ever "finished".

--Darth Kae

From: Chaykin Monday, December 03 2001, 09:59PM

I liken oldstyle pk to the 60s...it was a time of danger, excitement and fun for those who lived it, but in the end, people couldn't be trusted to have the kind of self-restraint that's needed to maintain that kind of lifestyle without lots of people getting hurt.

I like to believe that if enough of today's players had lived in that era, there might be more support for some kind of old pk option, because the mud really was THAT much more fun. But most people today seem to prefer their pk tame, so I guess like Craven said, memories are what we will have to live with. It's a shame.


From: Poetry Tuesday, December 04 2001, 12:27PM

I like this thought.

I think it would be really cool in a PK sense, but hell, any improvement is good. Sorry I get so mad on a board, but imagine if you liked a place and then a bunch of people changed, and then you started to not like it. That very fear is why PKOK went in... it just so happens that Im a minority and you guys, that like the tamer version of PK, are the majority.

Human nature and competitive instinct even temps oldskoolers to use PKOK... hence old fogies like Dusk that lost their touch.

What can I say? I guess Im the biggest badass of them all.


From: Nepon Tuesday, December 04 2001, 12:35PM

i would just like to point out that most of the names i see when people are complaining about misuse of the pkok system are the same "oldschool hardcore playerkillers" (dont you just love the way they romanticize thems elves?) that are trying to get the system changed. While i will admit that this system has many flaws that can be exploited, a true hardcore pkiller wouldnt need to resort to these methods. the problem isnt the system, it is the players use of the system. the only change that i personally see as truly being needed to change is having to be AA in order to accept AA. this would fix the majority of problems that the "hardcore" pkillers have while still leaving the option of individual "friendly" duels available for "softcore" pkillers. I must admit however that after having played under the old system of pk and the new one, i like the new one better (only because you can turn it off long enough to regain xp and not perma, but hey). anyway, as much as i hate to agree with imms, i still have to sa that players are the ones causing the problems, and let's face it... the imms are not gonna change the system again. they would rather see legendmud go the way of the do-do, so it's really up to the players to make playerkill "worth it" again.

-my 2 cents


From: Craven Tuesday, December 04 2001, 05:59PM

Expecting the players to do anything but exploit bugs and cause as much mischief as possible is a pipe dream. Oh well. I don't play here anymore anyway :)

From: Freja Thursday, December 06 2001, 01:01PM

I just wanna say that I agree with Nepon. (wow, someone agrees with me).


From: Poetry Thursday, December 06 2001, 01:07PM

I guess Im an elitist... I dont ever reject anyone, I have no other characters (except for one that is obsolete) to crossplay with, and I junked my old eq the moment it became old.

Maybe Im the only oldskool pkiller left. That is actually a good thing because now I could just play with myself all day!

Can you bring back dexmud on another port just for fun?:)


From: Akai_Hayate Sunday, December 09 2001, 03:44AM

To nepon...about your idea that being AA would solve every problem and complaint we have...shove it up your...didnt you read craven and chaykins post? While us pkillers may be better than the rest of you, we are still human, and can only take so much crap before we give up and start being a pkok pansy (note this applys to most pkillers not me, as ill never rejec anyone ever) And about then you can reject all and gain xp so you dont perma crap...shove it as well this character was down to 600k xp at level 50 Did I reject all? No hell ive gotten back to just under 6 mil now, all while reject all, and a grend grendel, I didnt plead with others not to kill me, I dont even run from certain doom fights (also note I meant all while accept all, a few lines ago) anyways, anyone who wants to use the Ohhh im so close to perma (16 mi line, can kiss my shiney metal as...behind.

And you all suck, even poetry, cause you made me post twice in one night.

From: Motoko Monday, December 10 2001, 09:00AM

As much as I hated the old pkill system I have to admit that it certainly was more exciting. My first pkiller was back when this was a dex mud, back when we had healing wells and everyone carried med and root gear, no flux stats back then. Clan pkill was a big thing. I remember having to work up to signing on my pkiller because I knew that as soon as I did I was a target. The rush that came from playing was incredible. Not any longer I'm afraid.

Since then I've had numerous pkillers, usually creating them after major changes in the mud, but for me, it hasn't been the same since that first one. It's seemed to have degraded steadly into what we have now. Not sure what the answer is but maybe like Poetry asked can we have dexmud back? hehe


From: Stain Wednesday, December 12 2001, 11:43PM

I guess I have to agree with Craven (wow, another hat down the drain) and Poetry and simply resign myself to the fact that this mud will never mix IC emotion and reason with pkill again. I never hated the old pk system, but I for sure knew I was goin' down the moment I logged on when I first hit the pkill scene. I got killed a lot. A whole lot. For it I can race around the mud nowadays and 95% of the time or more hit in game healing, grab herbs, have vials made, get more ammo, buy scrol and a whole lot more without losing any hp's. Many of the times I was killed back then were for ooc insults, out or range chars interfering as best they could, gang bangs, multis, loots, my corpse was invised more than once. Oh yeah, all that stuff happened to me on occasion.

But instead of bitching to the admins and gettin' all pissy about it I learned from it, got better, and got even. I held grudges forever and in the end my enemy and I ended up having a lot of fun. Sure it was ha hard, and mean stuff like looting and corpse invising always sucks but those are some of my best memmorys of LegendMUD. I never really have taken this game very seriously, but back then winning in pkill almost meant something, as did losing. A fight on one day could go on affecting the pkill community (which was far less visibly devided from the mobkillers back then) for weeks. Those are my best memmories of this game.

Oh well, all that is lost. I will never (and with the exception of the 'accept all' command) have never used any of the pkok options and untill the day I stop playing here altogether I will remain AA. I think I will be spending far less time around here, though. I already knew pkill on LegendMUD would never do anything but degrade and rot away untill it turned into nothing more than a 'duel arena' area, and this certainly isn't the first or the fifth or the twentieth time it's been put into text, either. For some reason, though, this time it just made me feel so completely idiotic for thinking about how much better the old system was that it just sorta took the wind outta my sails.

Like I say, I never took this game seriously at all, but now it dosn't even matter the slightest bit to me.

-Stain's player, the 6 1/2 year old newbie.

From: Nepon Sunday, December 16 2001, 03:41AM

sounds like you have issues akai....i mean, that crap about you being better than "us"? i seem to recall beating you AND doc in SL when you only accepted me and not the rest of the group...

(so much for that "I'll never reject anyone ever" crap that you are spilling about)

I never said you had to reject all to gain xp when close to perma, i simply said it was a good option.

And my opinion still stands, having seen pk tactics by losers like you first hand (accept one member of a SL group with a surgeon at your back fo example) that "hardcore oldschool pkillers" like you seem to think you are are simply reaping the rewards of the way you play.

fight with a bit more honor (and allow others to fight with more honor) and you may see the pk resurgence that you are looking for. but if you keep resorting to pkok pansy (which is what you really are) tactics, then you can expect more of the same from pkok! and this would suit me just fine as i would love to see pkok drop so low that no one cares if the imms drop pk altogether. Then we won't have to listen to a bunch of crybabies whining about how they want the glory days of pk back!


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