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Posted by Whoever on 12/22

These are mainly Admin imm issues.

It seems, of late, that the Admin department is getting out of hand. People are getting sitebanned, everywhere I turn. People who deserve to play here. People who have put exausting hours into playertesting this Beta MUD. People who find bugs, that a newer player would never find. People who have stuck with this MUD because they love it, with the changes that we all hated, but accepted. Changes that effected the way we play this game greatly. No more power levelling. No more Pkill. These same people, that didn't turn thier noses to such changes, because they were dedicated to this MUD. And you are banning them, without batting an eyelash.

They may be high maintainence players. They may occasionally get upset and swear on chat. But they've earned thier place on this MUD, they've earned the right to be all of the above, in my opinion.

These are the same people that make this MUD turn. Without these players, this MUD wouldn't be what it is. These players have found nasty bugs for years, and reported them, instead of abusing them, because they are dedicated to this MUD, and truly hope that the code one day goes public, to see something they have helped create make a profit.

I won't lie, I love this MUD.

Nontheless, I am ashamed of the Immortal Staff, for not caring about the people who have made this all possible.

I'm sure if you've read this much, you're wondering who I am. I've been playing here for over six years. Who I am doesn't matter, the facts above remain the same, whoever writes it.


From: Valley Saturday, December 08 2001, 03:05AM

Amen Brother!

I have been here, off and on, for something like 4-5 years. There have been many changes, with virtually no exception, for the worse, yet I keep coming back. I have played other muds, and if I am not mistaken, I have never lasted more than a few weeks, 8 tops, on any other. Why? Because they were all BORING! train hp, practice stats, mud school. Bah!

I admit, there are about 3 -good- imms here... but the rest can kma, for all the good they do.

But I still keep coming back...

Valley of the Dead, River of tears...

From: Valley Saturday, December 08 2001, 03:22AM

I may have been a bit off when I said 3 good imms, Rufus, you rock. The other couple or 3 good ones know who they are, I'm not telling.

Zandy, sorry bud, but you were the first one -not- to make the list, perhaps you need to go back to being just a player for 6 months or so and reset your perspective.

To those imms who fall between the "good list" and the "kma list," keep an eye on Rufus, you could learn a lot from a dummy -tongue Rufus- (gee, that social looks funny when done that way =P)

In any case, the one big deal here, IMHO, is that the players (imms too) let their personal (read OOC) opinions of people affect their character (read IC) actions way too much.

For a player it causes the occasional oddness, but in an imm, it has the unfortunate effect of misuse of Imm Commands.

Thats my rant,



From: Boreas Saturday, December 08 2001, 03:31AM

I agree! There should be a feature where if you put in so many bug reports, you can redeem for a get out of jail card. And if you've played for more than 5 years, you shouldn't be help accountable for your actions at all. So what if somebody gets out of hand yelling on channels. We should just shake our heads and say, "That Whoever. Who can blame him after all that times he's spent beta testing a free game?" And when they cheat, we'll just call it "dedication." They were so dedicated, they forgot that it was only a game.

From: Valley Saturday, December 08 2001, 04:11AM

-high5 Boreas-

From: Chocorua Saturday, December 08 2001, 09:58AM

the biggest mitake that the admin staff has made in regards to misbehavior is this...

We have been ot lenient up until about a year ago, people expect to get more and more and more chances before disciplinary actions are taken.

My apologies


From: Sallah Saturday, December 08 2001, 04:00PM

Wow, sarcasm is totally lost on you people. -point Boreas- Sarcasm.

From: Chocorua Saturday, December 08 2001, 04:22PM

in order for punishments to be fair and just as well as the rules being inforced fairly you can't have a scale system where you buy the right to misbehave with good service.

That would be rewarding people for following the rules by allowing them to break them. seems fairly backwards to me. People should follow the rules and enjoy the game. Worry about your own behavior and let others worry about theirs. If you feel you see soemthing that is unjust bring it to an admin's attention in a civil manner. Tell Zandy about it in an email or mudmail. If you don't trust the admn staff talk to Kaige or any other imm if you feel you must.

Don't expect to see people's punishments and the reason for them posted publically. You may never know if someone was reprimanded or not. Chances are if they were caught there was some sort of administrative action taken. The only time that these decisions get posted and discussed publically is through the actions of the player who has crossed the line of following and not following the rules. So if you see nothing about a sotuation that you reported there is a good chance that the person just don't want to make a martyr of themselves.


From: Haley Saturday, December 08 2001, 08:12PM

Just to clarify Steerpike's post...

It was me who archive locked Herbert, not Zandy.

We don't have enough time to -target- people here... We are kept plenty busy without even having to look for trouble makers, trust me.

Because you were here a long time, does not make you immune to punishment. Everyone has the same set of rules to go by when you make a new character. Whether you have been here 6 years or 6 months, we expect you to follow those rules. They are simple and very easy to understand.

There are so many people that play this game, get lots of enjoyment and -stagger- they don't break any rules! So give it a try, play by the rules and see how fun it is when you don't get warned/punished.


From: Wraith Sunday, December 09 2001, 11:38AM

Siteban is a tool for Admins just as limit, snoop, glue, archive lock and many others are. Used properly it helps the MUD. If it's not used, people who cause problems can remain to create more problems. For a long time siteban was never used because it is the most severe punishment available. Also, it can result in punishing others who play from the same location, but haven't done anything wrong. It has been used more frequently, but is it for lesser actions? Or, is it caused by the consistant refusal of players to follow the rules here?

It can be argued that players who have been here a long time have made a large number of contributions to Legend and if they violate the rules in some minor, petty way there should be some leniency. I have to disagree for some of the same reasons Choc gave. In addition, I would say that long time players have had a long time to learn the rules and have even less excuse to break them. Also, as long time players, they should realize that they are setting an example for those who have just arrived at Legend. Poor behavior among those who have been here the longest (obviously, this includes the imm staff) should not be tolerated.

This is, of course, just my personal opinion.

- Wraith

From: Rikimaru Sunday, December 09 2001, 12:39PM

not breaking any of the rules!? i thought thats what they where there for, i mean there just would be anyfun if some of use didn't try to bend the rules, and you guys need to lighten up, the admin departme isn't bad individually they all SUCK and you sould stop being nice to the other imms because they your friends and don't have to do the diirt dirty deed, this is just insight from your local channel restricted player

From: Freja Sunday, December 09 2001, 03:31PM

I don't think that people who have been here for years should be given some slack. if anything, they _should_ know the rules.


From: Rufus Monday, December 10 2001, 04:45PM

Heh, please... I don't rock. Trust me.

It's rather unfortunate I don't have much time to do anything here anymore, but down to it, I don't do much. A bit here and there. That's not what the imms should strive for =)

And I'm guessng you've never encountered me in an admin role before. I'm a bit faster with the siteban/playerdelete/lock triggers than the more level-headed folks in the admin department.

My personal view - if you can't follow the rules, bye. End of story.

You should feel lucky that people get as many warnings as they do. The rules are readily available. Follow them, or leave. If there's a problem with a rule, bring it to an imm. Don't intentionally break the rule because you think it's stupid. Because THAT is stupid and will only get you warned. Break rules at your own risk, but know that in the end, that it's the player who is ultimately responsible for their actions.

My _personal_ opinion. Your mileage might vary. Void where prohibited.


From: Craven Thursday, December 13 2001, 09:05AM

For the record Rufus, I personally have less of an urge to break rules with a "cool" imm is around because I respect them and don't want to look "bad" in their eyes. I could care less what people like Zandy or Wraith thinks whereas you or Sandra or Ladyace might make me think twice. If you don't respect authority, you aren't going to respect their rules.

- David

From: Rufus Thursday, December 13 2001, 09:21AM

Rules aren't about respecting their enforcer, they're about respecting your community at large. People like Wraith, Zandy, Me, Kaige ... we don't LIKE to give out warnings. We'd rather go through the days without having to do any of that.

And it's not just Zandy or Wraith's rules, it's the mud's rules. That includes the entire imm staff including those that founded the paradigm from which these rules come forth, and the community who has determined through their actions what rules are necessary.

If someone views breaking rules as a form of expression, an act of defiance... here's a simple illustration:

--------> [door]

From: Stain Saturday, December 22 2001, 07:18PM

Wraith and Zandy don't like to give warnings? Maybe you should quit your day job there, Rufus, your a natural born comedian. Of all the things I have been warned/disciplined for or personally seen others do to get warned or punished, those two have handed down the vast majority of those decisions by far. The same 'offenses' are not seen as offenses by other imms either, obviously, since the others don't (normally) nut up on ya for doing it. Game info on clan channel and "'harassment'" mostly. I have even seen channel bans for 'inapropriate content' when friends are having an IC fight on channels and no cursing was involved. Again, all this stuff was almost exclusively from the same imms. Is it just that the others are asleep at the keyboard? Only thing I could think of that could explain how those two arn't just hard ass turds who like the idea of having a 'button' of some sort to push.


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