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Posted by Hoarder on 02/14

ok enough is enough. I still cannot believe Nothing anbd Aginor are Legends .. then you get us to poll on Tancred! Can we at least changed the term Legend to "They played here" In my humble opinion .. Legends are players that somehow are more God like Perhaps only imms after they decide to go should become Legends Like Parri Northstar .. perhaps one day Sandra :p but enough of the average players please.

From: Tybalt Saturday, February 10 2001, 04:12PM Hey we are just being asked to vote on LoP If you don't think the char is worthy then just vote no simple enough Tyb

From: Malia Saturday, February 10 2001, 04:08PM Well, you knew I'd have something to say about this, so stand back, put on the flame resistant undies, and hang on. I knew a good portion of the current replicas(ie. those that were in HoL). Hell, I even have a replica of one of my own characters. What is so special about them? How can you say that what they did is any better or worse than what the newer ones/currently polled one(s) have done? Were you there? Did you know them? Or do you listen to the rumours that go around? They're no different than the new ones. I don't vote, for obvious reasons, but I can say that in my opinion, each of the last 3 polled were deserving of getting at least that far. You not only tarnish their memory, their history, but the memory and history of those before them, and frankly, it sounds like a jealous whine. All 3 of them have done many, many things for this community, and are remembered by many people for what they've done. Do I think Tancred deserves to be polled? You're damn right I do. In fact, he's one of the few that I wish didn't even want to retire. On another note, Northstar didn't quit, and Parri. Heh. Wasn't she fired? Yea, that's legendary.

From: Akai_Hayate Saturday, February 10 2001, 04:30PM I'm voting no on tancred for sure! just cause he's sooooooo damn cool only Rp'er who does a lightblinder, that isnt normally a pkiller that i can walk up to, say "go molest and altar boy" and get an rp reactio reaction outta, like a fight or a neat comment or what not Tancreds too cool to become a mob, everyone vote no :P

From: LadyAce Saturday, February 10 2001, 07:32PM I think the real question underlying the original post is "What is the intention of the 'Legends of the Past' program. From what I can tell, the intention is to have ways to help us remember our own history as a community. The people who belong in this program are those who are a particularly special part of that history -- the "remember when" stories we tell. Immortals who retire have an option to become mortal again, and as such could indeed apply to be LoP. But I don't think we'd want to have mobs made of them while they're still imms, that would be too confusing! -LA

From: Rowane Saturday, February 10 2001, 08:22PM I think Im about as angry as Malia on this one. What does Hoarder expect, that after the immortals review the applicants and the players vote on the polls, that the potential lop's get cleared by him? Give me a break :P

From: Boreas Saturday, February 10 2001, 09:43PM I don't want to say anything bad about the people who become LoPs or potentially will. However, I do see Hoarder's point. There are so many LoP mobs around now, imo too many. They are often discontinuous with the area and very spammy. I had thought that adding new ones would be very selective and rare. Perhaps only a couple per year. But at the rate they are being added, we'll be overrun in a matter of months. Is this really what the area was intended for?

From: Sasha Saturday, February 10 2001, 10:07PM IMHO the only issue is that there is a big disconnect between the old way and the new. I have no problem with the chars who were added to LoP as they are each worthy, but to Hoarder's credit, it seemed to be VERY difficult to be added into HoL, and now quite easy to become part of LoP... As much as I appreciate being asked via the polls, I would hate to see LoP turn into a popularity contest. Can anyone explain how a character gets to be in the polls in the first place? I know my mind will be eased if someone just tells me that there is in fact a tough screening process BEFORE we ever see the name in the poll. Is there a vote among the IMMS before it gets to us morts? Perhaps they should be in unanimous agreement about the potential candidate before we get to vote. Anyway, perhaps you'll consider adding LoP mobs at the same time you accept immortal applications... one round every 6 months. Sasha

From: Sandra Saturday, February 10 2001, 10:20PM There is a vote that the applicant has to go thru in order to get to the polls. There's a panel of immorts that do the voting, and general raking over the coals of each applicant/application. I won't say how many applications we've gotten so far, but I will say that the number that has made it to the polls is a VERY small amount. The immorts are strict, no less so than if the application was for immorting, really. As for the replicas becoming overpopulating, as I did this last update with Mercenary and Arkenstone, when a new one goes in, another set will be set to 'rent' and alternate, like these two do. So there will be fewer around at a given time. I don't see a problem with the way things are going currently, mostly because I do know how many have applied and how many were turned down. I guess you'll have to take my word for it. =) If the replicas are ending up in one spot more often than usual, bug it, and I'll try to get them spread out more. I think the perception that it's easy to get into LoP is incorrect. It's in fact pretty difficult. The difficulty with HoL wasn't it's screening process, but more along the lines of the waiting list. That's a big difference, as LoP has no waiting list, nor will it. -Sandra

From: Fraegis Sunday, February 11 2001, 06:05AM I don't agree with the choices of who is to become LoP, but voting is by all means the most fair way of determining who becomes a Legend of the Past. One thing I do wish, though, is that Sandra would cut a little down on chatting mobs... In Pittsburgh, there is one who chats...LoP has 2 (so far), will the next area have 3? Imagine all areas having one or two mobs that uses chat, that would be quite spammy. The peasant in Tudor yelling for help on chat as a reaction is cute, and quite rare. But automated chats can be too much, esp. if other builders starts it too. Fraegis

From: Zeppelin Sunday, February 11 2001, 02:45PM Damn, hate to do it heheh but I agree with Sandra =P Anyway, the reason it was so hard to get into HOL was because Flagg was, well, Flagg. I think the vote is fair, and to tell you the truth I am going to vote yes SIMPLY BECAUSE I know that it will get a net 5 stat item and/or a Q5 weapon added and we ALL know that I THINK that there is not enough gear/weapons in the game... The self-serving, Q5 weapon-wanting Lord Zep

From: Nelson Sunday, February 11 2001, 03:32PM I thought it was a poll, not a vote among the morts. And if it isnt, i sure hope our vote doesnt count for uhh turds Otherwise TheThing will be in lop, and sayyyyy umm Dune would never get in Anyways, more power to sandra, final veto, and Forget the morts! Nelson, As wierd in rl as he is here. P.S. that wasnt sarcasm, I'm gonna have a fit if cool people get rejected cause of mort polls.

From: Cerberus Sunday, February 11 2001, 04:15PM -cackle- "I'm gonna have a fit if cool people get rejected cause of mort polls." What does how well liked you are have anything to do with whether you should be a legend or not?

From: Rowane Sunday, February 11 2001, 09:19PM In response to Sasha's append, I have to disagree with her comment about LOP not becoming a popularity contest. In my view at least, thats kinda what LOP is about. In order to be legendary you need to be popular, as in having people know who your character is. Rowane

From: Nelson Sunday, February 11 2001, 11:16PM Thats like, totally what im saying cerby, some jackhole should get in cause he was a legendary jackhole, and he shouldnt be rejected cause, he was mean to us, or the majority of us, or any crap like that

From: Ganymede Monday, February 12 2001, 09:46AM I have to disagree with Rowane. I think LOP should be something a little more meaningful than a popularity contest. I've seen characters start out, level up quickly and become very popular and well-known among mortals, and then disappear after two or three months. In the current environment it's quite possible someone like that could get voted in. Should that person be a Legend? What I fear most here is the tendency to vote yes out of ignorance about the character in question, or out of sheer voter apathy. I had one char (who has been playing several years) tell me they voted for Aginor because he created the Dark Lord RP. (?!) Another told me they've voted yes on every character so far because: "Why not?" And Zeppelin's example is yet another really bad reason to vote for someone. Personally I think Sandra should maybe put only net 3 items, or even just mundane items, on new mobs to prevent this sort of voting. Remember...just because a lot of people vote for something doesn't mean it's necessarily the right thing. That's why in RL we have governments to override a poor decision by the people. Ganymede et al.

From: Rictor Monday, February 12 2001, 02:32PM I have some real issues with this new LOP thing as well. Admittedly, some people should be Legends, and I think Tancred should be one, I just think that this new voting system is going to totally screw a lot of memorable people. I can name a bunch of people who ARE Legends no matter what anyone says, the likes of Point, Outsider, Bronwyn, there are a lot of people who I think deserve to be Legends, and they never will be, you know why? Because no one remembers them, and I know you might say, well then they aren't legendary, but frankly, I bet the players from back then would say that they are. You are missing a entire group of 'legendary' players by having this voting block. Yes Tancred and Aginor should be Legends, but there are a bunch of others who deserve it before these people. That's just my opinion. How many people would have voted on Augustus, or Ramadan, or Arkenstone, or Ainur, or anything if we put them back up for voting, NONE, becuase no one on the mud really remembers them. This mud wide voting is flawed for that reason. Rictor

From: Shmeck Monday, February 12 2001, 04:25PM I think as long as the mobs "rent" and we have a set amount on at a time, that we should allow as many people who are "legendary" join. As far as Rictor's point, i agree whole-heartedly because i suffered from the very incident myself... I had a char that in my personal opinion deserved to be more of an LoP then the one i actually applied, unfortunately i have not played that char consistently for about 2 years, so nobody really remembers him. I would also like to point out that this mud has gone through a great amount of stages, and in each stage there may have been someone that we consider legendary... considering how long that this mud has been around, compared to the LoP mobs, i would say that we deffinately do not have too many. -Shmeck's Player

From: Cyrnon Tuesday, February 13 2001, 01:02AM I think the LoP is a good idea, but I have to agree that acceptance has a great deal to do with the character's popularity. The big reason for this is because you can't become well-known unless you are loud on chat and move around a lot. All the while you are doing this you are gaining experience and equipment. Almost all characters that apply are bound to be level 50 and it would be anti-climatic if they didn't have good equipment. Just out of curiousity, given the following list of past and present characters, how many do you think should be in LoP if they were to apply today? Envy, Gan, Eretz, Starbiter, Dusty, Howard, Tempus, Mitra, Lagmonster, Stradivari, Ulric, Fatale, Ronnie, TaKSyN, Guapo, Straussy, Asmodean, Gig, Stick, Dune, Mingus, Magdalen, Magda, Khelleck, Riptide, Marauder, Darla, Bronwyn, Tusk, Zeirath, Dean, Govan, Greyscot, Tritoch, Ainur, Firehorse Jean, Zalbag, Feugo, Sallah What criteria did you use to decide if they should be in LoP? (Other than more LoP mobs == more eq :P ) Did you consider what the character has accomplished? how well you know the character? or player? If you know what warnings a player has, should it matter? Is the player/character good at RP/PK? Other factors? Oh, and I'm not looking for a discussion on the merits of any characters I mentioned. Some I like; some I don't. Some stand out in my memory while others I remembered while looking through old LTs. To make it more interesting, I pulled some names from who and chat while writing this. My goal in writing this post is to provoke thought. Cyrnon BTW, I had the impression that, even though there were other factors, Parri left and decided not to return due to personnality conflicts. History has a funny way of becoming biased.

From: McDonald Tuesday, February 13 2001, 04:33PM Noone ever said what the application process is. Where do we pick up an application?

From: Cheyla Tuesday, February 13 2001, 08:15PM http://www.legendmud.org/Community/lop_app.html

From: Kaige Tuesday, February 13 2001, 08:11PM The application process is described in the welcome board post titled, " Title: LoP application process" it's currently post #13. The url for the application is there as well. As far as the voting being a popularity contest, have those of you who are saying that it is looked closely at the questions in the polls? Only one question asks if they should be a legend. The rest of the questions aren't there for fun. They're there so we can judge if people generally know the characters or are just saying 'YES! Toss them in too we need more Q5 +5 weapons!' And like sandra said before, there is a committee of several immortals that look over each application and decide if it gets past them before players even get to see a poll question. As for missing people who haven't actively played in a couple of years, well, there's TONS of people we'd love to nomiate and put in to satisfy our own sense of justice and desire to preserve bits of the mud's history that will be lost simply because those players don't actively play here any more and in many cases, we don't have a way to contact them. I don't know if this answered anyone's questions/concerns other than McDonald's about where to find an app, but I hope it helps explain some of our thinking behind it a little. -Kaige

From: Poison Tuesday, February 13 2001, 08:51PM In response to LadyAce saying that legends are people who come u p in the stories we tell starting with "Remember when" I would just like t o say that I think LoP is a little more than that. If it was just that, than we would have idiots like Tanzer and Darkbeard running around multi-ing and bitching at each other, LoP mobs should be people that have had a positive effect on legend :) /\_/\ \___/

From: Davien Wednesday, February 14 2001, 11:08PM Arsene? Stella? Agni? Papercut? Shine? Stormcrow? Mice? Those are all names that I haven't seen mentioned yet and are all people who could well deserve a replica. How many of you even remember who Arsene was, let alone would vote for him in a poll? Frankly, I don't see how LoP can grow too big. Why not have some of those characters only play at certain times of the day? Some who go away for periods like real players? Someone mentioned overcrowding - the mobs are following their natural tendancies. Most of their players hung out at the Stag, I don't see why the replicas shouldn't. LoP is there to remember the past, and its doing a very good job imho. Lets remember the good as well as the bad.


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