Posted by Hoarder on 02/14
ok enough is enough.
I still cannot believe Nothing anbd Aginor are Legends .. then you get us
to poll on Tancred!
Can we at least changed the term Legend to "They played here"
In my humble opinion .. Legends are players that somehow are more God like
Perhaps only imms after they decide to go should become Legends
Like Parri Northstar .. perhaps one day Sandra :p
but enough of the average players please.
Saturday, February 10 2001, 04:12PM
Hey we are just being asked to vote on LoP
If you don't think the char is worthy then just vote no
Saturday, February 10 2001, 04:08PM
Well, you knew I'd have something to say about this, so stand back,
put on the flame resistant undies, and hang on.
I knew a good portion of the current replicas(ie. those that were
in HoL). Hell, I even have a replica of one of my own characters.
What is so special about them? How can you say that what they did
is any better or worse than what the newer ones/currently polled
one(s) have done? Were you there? Did you know them? Or do you
listen to the rumours that go around? They're no different
than the new ones.
I don't vote, for obvious reasons, but I can say that in
my opinion, each of the last 3 polled were deserving of
getting at least that far. You not only tarnish their
memory, their history, but the memory and history of
those before them, and frankly, it sounds like a jealous whine.
All 3 of them have done many, many things for this community,
and are remembered by many people for what they've done.
Do I think Tancred deserves to be polled? You're damn right
I do. In fact, he's one of the few that I wish didn't even
want to retire.
On another note, Northstar didn't quit, and Parri. Heh. Wasn't
she fired? Yea, that's legendary.
Saturday, February 10 2001, 04:30PM
I'm voting no on tancred for sure!
just cause he's sooooooo damn cool
only Rp'er who does a lightblinder, that isnt normally a pkiller
that i can walk up to, say "go molest and altar boy" and get an rp reactio
reaction outta, like a fight or a neat comment or what not
Tancreds too cool to become a mob, everyone vote no :P
Saturday, February 10 2001, 07:32PM
I think the real question underlying the original post is "What is the
intention of the 'Legends of the Past' program. From what I can tell,
the intention is to have ways to help us remember our own history
as a community. The people who belong in this program are those
who are a particularly special part of that history -- the "remember when"
stories we tell. Immortals who retire have an option to become
mortal again, and as such could indeed apply to be LoP. But I don't
think we'd want to have mobs made of them while they're still imms,
that would be too confusing!
Saturday, February 10 2001, 08:22PM
I think Im about as angry as Malia on this one. What
does Hoarder expect, that after the immortals review the
applicants and the players vote on the polls, that the
potential lop's get cleared by him? Give me a break :P
Saturday, February 10 2001, 09:43PM
I don't want to say anything bad about the people who become LoPs or
potentially will. However, I do see Hoarder's point. There are so many
LoP mobs around now, imo too many. They are often discontinuous with the
area and very spammy. I had thought that adding new ones would be very
selective and rare. Perhaps only a couple per year. But at the rate
they are being added, we'll be overrun in a matter of months. Is this
really what the area was intended for?
Saturday, February 10 2001, 10:07PM
IMHO the only issue is that there is a big disconnect between the
old way and the new. I have no problem with the chars who were added
to LoP as they are each worthy, but to Hoarder's credit, it seemed
to be VERY difficult to be added into HoL, and now quite easy to
become part of LoP...
As much as I appreciate being asked via the polls, I would hate to see
LoP turn into a popularity contest. Can anyone explain how a character
gets to be in the polls in the first place? I know my mind will be eased
if someone just tells me that there is in fact a tough screening process
BEFORE we ever see the name in the poll.
Is there a vote among the IMMS before it gets to us morts? Perhaps they
should be in unanimous agreement about the potential candidate before
we get to vote.
Anyway, perhaps you'll consider adding LoP mobs at the same time you
accept immortal applications... one round every 6 months.
Saturday, February 10 2001, 10:20PM
There is a vote that the applicant has to go thru in order to get
to the polls. There's a panel of immorts that do the voting, and
general raking over the coals of each applicant/application.
I won't say how many applications we've gotten so far, but I will
say that the number that has made it to the polls is a VERY
small amount. The immorts are strict, no less so than if the
application was for immorting, really.
As for the replicas becoming overpopulating, as I did this last
update with Mercenary and Arkenstone, when a new one goes in,
another set will be set to 'rent' and alternate, like these two
do. So there will be fewer around at a given time.
I don't see a problem with the way things are going currently,
mostly because I do know how many have applied and how many
were turned down. I guess you'll have to take my word for it. =)
If the replicas are ending up in one spot more often than usual,
bug it, and I'll try to get them spread out more.
I think the perception that it's easy to get into LoP is incorrect.
It's in fact pretty difficult. The difficulty with HoL wasn't it's
screening process, but more along the lines of the waiting list.
That's a big difference, as LoP has no waiting list, nor will it.
Sunday, February 11 2001, 06:05AM
I don't agree with the choices of who is to become LoP, but
voting is by all means the most fair way of determining who
becomes a Legend of the Past. One thing I do wish, though, is
that Sandra would cut a little down on chatting mobs...
In Pittsburgh, there is one who chats...LoP has 2 (so far), will
the next area have 3? Imagine all areas having one or two
mobs that uses chat, that would be quite spammy. The peasant
in Tudor yelling for help on chat as a reaction is cute,
and quite rare. But automated chats can be too much, esp.
if other builders starts it too.
Sunday, February 11 2001, 02:45PM
Damn, hate to do it heheh but I agree with Sandra =P
Anyway, the reason it was so hard to get into HOL was because Flagg was,
well, Flagg. I think the vote is fair, and to tell you the truth
I am going to vote yes SIMPLY BECAUSE I know that it will get a net
5 stat item and/or a Q5 weapon added and we ALL know that I THINK
that there is not enough gear/weapons in the game...
The self-serving, Q5 weapon-wanting Lord Zep
Sunday, February 11 2001, 03:32PM
I thought it was a poll, not a vote among the morts.
And if it isnt, i sure hope our vote doesnt count for uhh turds
Otherwise TheThing will be in lop, and sayyyyy umm Dune would never get in
Anyways, more power to sandra, final veto, and Forget the morts!
Nelson, As wierd in rl as he is here.
P.S. that wasnt sarcasm, I'm gonna have a fit if cool people get rejected
cause of mort polls.
Sunday, February 11 2001, 04:15PM
"I'm gonna have a fit if cool people get rejected
cause of mort polls."
What does how well liked you are have anything to do with whether
you should be a legend or not?
Sunday, February 11 2001, 09:19PM
In response to Sasha's append, I have to disagree with her comment
about LOP not becoming a popularity contest. In my view at least,
thats kinda what LOP is about. In order to be legendary you need
to be popular, as in having people know who your character is.
Sunday, February 11 2001, 11:16PM
Thats like, totally what im saying cerby, some jackhole should get in
cause he was a legendary jackhole, and he shouldnt be rejected cause,
he was mean to us, or the majority of us, or any crap like that
Monday, February 12 2001, 09:46AM
I have to disagree with Rowane. I think LOP should be something a little
more meaningful than a popularity contest. I've seen characters start
out, level up quickly and become very popular and well-known among
mortals, and then disappear after two or three months. In the current
environment it's quite possible someone like that could get voted in.
Should that person be a Legend?
What I fear most here is the tendency to vote yes out of ignorance about
the character in question, or out of sheer voter apathy. I had one char
(who has been playing several years) tell me they voted for Aginor
because he created the Dark Lord RP. (?!) Another told me they've voted
yes on every character so far because: "Why not?" And Zeppelin's example
is yet another really bad reason to vote for someone. Personally I think
Sandra should maybe put only net 3 items, or even just mundane items, on
new mobs to prevent this sort of voting.
Remember...just because a lot of people vote for something doesn't mean
it's necessarily the right thing. That's why in RL we have governments
to override a poor decision by the people.
Ganymede et al.
Monday, February 12 2001, 02:32PM
I have some real issues with this new LOP thing as well. Admittedly,
some people should be Legends, and I think Tancred should be one, I
just think that this new voting system is going to totally screw a
lot of memorable people. I can name a bunch of people who ARE Legends
no matter what anyone says, the likes of Point, Outsider, Bronwyn,
there are a lot of people who I think deserve to be Legends, and they
never will be, you know why? Because no one remembers them, and I know
you might say, well then they aren't legendary, but frankly, I bet the
players from back then would say that they are. You are missing a
entire group of 'legendary' players by having this voting block. Yes
Tancred and Aginor should be Legends, but there are a bunch of others
who deserve it before these people. That's just my opinion. How many
people would have voted on Augustus, or Ramadan, or Arkenstone, or
Ainur, or anything if we put them back up for voting, NONE, becuase
no one on the mud really remembers them. This mud wide voting is
flawed for that reason.
Monday, February 12 2001, 04:25PM
I think as long as the mobs "rent" and we have a set amount on
at a time, that we should allow as many people who are "legendary"
join. As far as Rictor's point, i agree whole-heartedly because i
suffered from the very incident myself... I had a char that in my
personal opinion deserved to be more of an LoP then the one i actually
applied, unfortunately i have not played that char consistently for
about 2 years, so nobody really remembers him.
I would also like to point out that this mud has gone through a great
amount of stages, and in each stage there may have been someone that we
consider legendary... considering how long that this mud has been
around, compared to the LoP mobs, i would say that we deffinately do not
have too many.
Tuesday, February 13 2001, 01:02AM
I think the LoP is a good idea, but I have to agree that acceptance
has a great deal to do with the character's popularity. The big
reason for this is because you can't become well-known unless you
are loud on chat and move around a lot. All the while you are doing
this you are gaining experience and equipment. Almost all characters
that apply are bound to be level 50 and it would be anti-climatic if
they didn't have good equipment. Just out of curiousity, given the
following list of past and present characters, how many do you think
should be in LoP if they were to apply today?
Envy, Gan, Eretz, Starbiter, Dusty, Howard, Tempus, Mitra, Lagmonster,
Stradivari, Ulric, Fatale, Ronnie, TaKSyN, Guapo, Straussy, Asmodean, Gig,
Stick, Dune, Mingus, Magdalen, Magda, Khelleck, Riptide, Marauder, Darla,
Bronwyn, Tusk, Zeirath, Dean, Govan, Greyscot, Tritoch, Ainur, Firehorse
Jean, Zalbag, Feugo, Sallah
What criteria did you use to decide if they should be in LoP? (Other than
more LoP mobs == more eq :P ) Did you consider what the character has
accomplished? how well you know the character? or player? If you know
what warnings a player has, should it matter? Is the player/character
good at RP/PK? Other factors?
Oh, and I'm not looking for a discussion on the merits of any characters
I mentioned. Some I like; some I don't. Some stand out in my memory while
others I remembered while looking through old LTs. To make it more
interesting, I pulled some names from who and chat while writing this. My
goal in writing this post is to provoke thought.
BTW, I had the impression that, even though there were other factors,
Parri left and decided not to return due to personnality conflicts.
History has a funny way of becoming biased.
Tuesday, February 13 2001, 04:33PM
Noone ever said what the application process is. Where do we
pick up an application?
Tuesday, February 13 2001, 08:15PM
Tuesday, February 13 2001, 08:11PM
The application process is described in the welcome board post
titled, " Title: LoP application process" it's currently post #13.
The url for the application is there as well.
As far as the voting being a popularity contest, have those of you
who are saying that it is looked closely at the questions in the
polls? Only one question asks if they should be a legend. The rest
of the questions aren't there for fun. They're there so we can judge
if people generally know the characters or are just saying 'YES! Toss
them in too we need more Q5 +5 weapons!'
And like sandra said before, there is a committee of several immortals
that look over each application and decide if it gets past them before
players even get to see a poll question.
As for missing people who haven't actively played in a couple of
years, well, there's TONS of people we'd love to nomiate and put in
to satisfy our own sense of justice and desire to preserve bits of
the mud's history that will be lost simply because those players
don't actively play here any more and in many cases, we don't have
a way to contact them.
I don't know if this answered anyone's questions/concerns other than
McDonald's about where to find an app, but I hope it helps explain
some of our thinking behind it a little.
Tuesday, February 13 2001, 08:51PM
In response to LadyAce saying that legends are people who come u
p in the stories we tell starting with "Remember when" I would just like t
o say that I think LoP is a little more than that.
If it was just that, than we would have idiots like Tanzer and Darkbeard
running around multi-ing and bitching at each other,
LoP mobs should be people that have had a positive effect on legend :)
Wednesday, February 14 2001, 11:08PM
Arsene? Stella? Agni? Papercut? Shine? Stormcrow? Mice?
Those are all names that I haven't seen mentioned yet and are all
people who could well deserve a replica. How many of you even
remember who Arsene was, let alone would vote for him in a poll?
Frankly, I don't see how LoP can grow too big. Why not have some
of those characters only play at certain times of the day? Some
who go away for periods like real players? Someone mentioned
overcrowding - the mobs are following their natural tendancies.
Most of their players hung out at the Stag, I don't see why the
replicas shouldn't. LoP is there to remember the past, and its
doing a very good job imho. Lets remember the good as well as