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Posted by Mars on 03/22

Well, I was just reading the very uninspiring thread about the new HOL people. Nearly all of the members in the old HOL were in fact pk'rs. In fact, I remember logging on your clanned and there was always at least a small threat of being attacked or in some way having fun in sort of a 'realistic' fantasy environment. People did in fact role play and although at times people's emotions got the better of them, it was always something worth talking about. If you played here you will remember the epic battles of Bremmar, Sylia, Greyscot, Kiera, Dusty. Bart and Rusalka and the sweet nothings....but is that possible under this lame ass pkok where only people you 'let' steal from you can steal from you. Kiera and the whole rp of the knight's would never have happened. Then the next generation of pk'rs along with the older ones, Augustus, Kretch, Tao, Lori, Jag, Satsu, etc etc. None of the fun and 'legendary' exploits are even possible in the world of pkok. What is legendary about a lame ass tiny-plot or winning duels between 2 people e who only accept one another. This place has gotten so politically correct and soft that someone feels entitled to the HOL merely by being here. Does Marauder deserve to be in the HOL??? Everyone knows him? What a joke. I will say this: No one gets into the HOL for being a fantastic mob killer. Killing mobs, while necessary, is exceedingly boring. Now questing and learning the intricies of the game and teaching others.... that can be legendary....people are legendary sources of knowledge. Pkilling is also a way to be legendary since it is probably the single best way to test one's skill on the mud vs others. Can there be any 'legendary' pk'rs anymore...I don't think so b/c everytime I have logged on in the past 2 days there have been a maximum of 4 people accept all at any one time. I've gotten into some pk spats with people, but mostly there are people who are leveling and will be accept all soon they say. Well, pardon my french, but that is a ton of crap. You should not be able to turn on and off PK status at will. But I digress. The final way to get into legendary status is through RP. I would argue that RP only able to be best done in a PK environment where it can evolve unaided by 'controlling authorities of the RP'....let it ride. Let sweet nothings be stolen again by an unknown thief, let wars and emotions rage, let legends be legendary. That is what we do. I can't believe all the old imms can look at legend today and see an atmosphere that they like as much as the old one. I agree the fight system is MUCH better, the areas MUCH enriched, the items MUCH better....as a whole the mud as a solitary item is better. The players suck. There are no more legends because it is impossible to act out evil fantasy on the mud anymore. There is no good vs evil which is the basis of every fantasy game/book I've ever read. The imms got tired of dealing with the emotional roller coasters involved with pk and took out what they saw as the source of the problem. The dichotomy that existed between good and evil is now gone. The dichotomy that allowed for legendary hero's and villians to rise from the mediocre masses is gone and has left a unimaginative, uniteresting mass of mediocrety. Fantasy has never been so boring.

From: Fraegis Wednesday, March 21 2001, 02:43PM HoL/LoP...Only main difference is that the new LoP mobs has more acts and are more numerous. And you or I don't decide what is legendary, history does...Which in turn means the players here who get a chance to vote for them. Quite fair, even if I don't always agree with it. I never knew most of the people you name as legendary, so perhaps they weren't quite as legendary as you think they are? I am not saying they weren't nice and all, but if they were truly legendary, most of us newer players would likely remember them. You can choose to blame it on pkok. You do that. You can also choose to blame it on the imms. You also do that. You can even choose to blame the players of today, which you also do. So, according to you, we have numerous reason why legend is going down the drain. Let me put it straight. In my opinion, your post is worthless. You whine, you complain, you blame. You don't offer solutions, you don't accept part of the responsability, and you don't try to see the things from the other side of the fence. Pkok is a tool. An improvement of pkill of the old days, if you like. If everyone who whines about how pkok ruined pkill took the step to be accept all, you would have lots of people to jump/kill/loot. But nooo, you don't do that, because it is unfair how others can accept you, kill you, and then reject you. Hey, try it out, you die, you reject those who do so. No more trouble with them. All pkok does is, basically, to ensure everyone can pkill in a way that is to their liking, be it accept all or a few duels now and then. Try being a little constructive next time you post, or -gasp- try to do something about what you think sucks instead of whining on this board and offering no solutions. Fraegis

From: Geo Wednesday, March 21 2001, 03:16PM Most people stopped giving solutions/suggestions when the imms stopped listening. Why offer suggestions to a deaf ear? -shrug-

From: Craven Wednesday, March 21 2001, 03:21PM I thought your post was a well informed rant anyway. Don't worry about Fraegis, he was never much of a pkiller, so pkok as it is suits him just fine. Limit RP in the same type of way and you might get his dander up :) I realize pkok isn't going away, but what do YOU think would fix it Fraegis. These dillusions about looting and multi are just that, illusions. If people like you would stop spouting such moronic lies, maybe more people would be willing to give it a shot. As it stands there are a VERY few EASY things that could be coded which would make pk INCREDIBLY better. Things like making it only possible to fight an AA if you yourself are AA or they individually accept you. I hate little weiners who accept me when they know I'm low, kill me, then reject me, with no concequences. And if it was a bit harder to turn on and off, again, maybe we wouldn't have so many problems. Personally I don't know what the solution is, but I feel much the same as Mars. I feel this place has grown in so many positive ways, but at the same time its missing something it once had. I think pkok COULD work if people were willing to try a bit harder, imms and morts. Imms refuse to code anything new with it and morts refuse to use the existing system. So we're stuck in a very boring stalemate. I hope this ends soon. - Craven

From: Chaykin Wednesday, March 21 2001, 03:58PM Fraegis states that pkok ensures that everyone 'can pkill in a way that is to their liking.' That's wrong though. Accept alls want to pk with everyone else who is accept all, but as long as people can accept, kill, reject, their style of pk is in fact not always possible. I can definitely see where Mars and Craven are coming from. And I think it's really pretty obvious that the implied solution in Mars' post is 'pkok needs to go.' Although that obviously isn't going to happen, I tend to think pkok as it currently exists discourages responsible pkers (i.e. the ones who accept the consequences of their actions knowing they could be killed in return) and encourages irresponsible ones (ones who take potshots and then won't let themselves be killed in return). Like Craven, I don't really know what the solution for this is either. His suggestion of only accept alls being able to kill other accept alls is usually criticized with 'If you do that you're not really accept all.' So then maybe change the name to something else? The point is it would allow them to pk the way they want like everyone else can. It is totally counterproductive to call anybody's opinions 'worthless' and it doesn't reflect well on anyone to make such a dismissive comment. Chaykin et al.

From: Cerberus Wednesday, March 21 2001, 10:42PM -cackle- I admit I agree with almost everything Craven, Chaykin and Mars have posted on this topic. Half of me likes pkok (the rp'er in me), the other half despises it. (the pk'er in me) There has to be some solution that is better than this. Cerberus

From: Nepon Thursday, March 22 2001, 03:08AM well you can whine about pkok all you want to, but remember...the immms have already said that pkok was an alternative to pulling pk all together so be careful when you start saying that pkok has to go becuase if it does, pk goes with it. i do agree with you that you should have to be AA to fight an AA. Normally i wouldnt care one way or the other but i was on a SL run that got jumped and the parties doing the jumping were only accepting me (even though most of the group was AA) and so no one could help out. this is a bit unfair if you ask me. As far as LOP is concerned, it sounds like youre complaining because you d dont see how you can get in. In my opinion PK an RP are a shotty way of determining who is considered legendary but thats just my opinion. i mean, any fool can be logged in for 6 months non stop, kill a bunch of players who are 10 levels lower than they are, pretend to be following some religious cults orders....and BAM! everyone knows their name and can answer a few easy questions about them and presto they are LOP mobs. so if you really wanna get in, thats the formula -my 2 cents

From: Sallah Thursday, March 22 2001, 04:19AM I think it's pretty silly to suggest that the older LOP mobs aren't legendary just because a newer player doesn't remember them. I have no personal memories of Winston Churchill, mainly because I wasn't alive in his day. Does that make him less legendary? As someone who knew and remembers most of the LOP mobs, there is no doubt in my mind that they belong there, and I'm sure I speak for most anyone who knew them. And it is also true that no one today can compare. Sallah

From: Wiz Thursday, March 22 2001, 05:52AM What I believe for pkok has been stated quite clearly. And nepon, we know that the imms said they would pull pk. we want to fix it, not make it wha what it was in the previous formj as to saying it wasnt fair getting jumped by 'parties' if you think one person and a link-dead group-mate is a party...suit yourself, and you cannot deny that if we were both accept all that -every- pkok enabled character in that sl run would accept us and attempt to kill us. So dont say "this is a bit unfair if you ask me." Because why should you be able to be the side of the battle to abuse pkok with your never pkok people accepting and killing people? Thats also an area legend should look into trying to solve...the toggalability. Oh well I dont know what i said so I hpoe it makes sense. -Wiz

From: Nepon Thursday, March 22 2001, 06:13AM actually wiz, i wasnt talking about you and tritoch but since you brought it up, if you were accept all (like i was) and the change that i suggested in my post was put in then the only members of that group that would have attacked you would have been the other AA's which consisted of HerbertWest and myself in order for the others to help they would have to be AA as well which would solve the problem of "toggalability" that you mentioned so "why should i be able to be the side of the battle to abuse pkok with my never pkok people accepting and killing people?" well.....-ponder- why should you be able to come to SL with as many people as you want (even thought it was only 2 in that case) and only have to fig one member of our group while everyone else is powerless to help? i mean, lets face it if you had not gone LD i would have been mauled by a party (however big or small) that was too afraid of dying to accept the party that i was travelling with. yeah 2 people against an SL group isnt a fair fight but neither is 1 person against 2 of his same level

From: Harkonnen Thursday, March 22 2001, 08:29AM Heh, if PK was removed I would archive every char and never log in again to play, and would never make another char here. Its not my call, but I do not think I am alone in this feeling... If you rip PK, don't forget to rename this place LegendMUSH! -Baron Harkonnen

From: Skar Thursday, March 22 2001, 10:58AM I agree that the pkok as currently coded encourages cowardly behavior -- rejecting everyone but your target, attacking and rejecting at the first opportunity, thus denying retaliation. I also agree that if AA is changed so that you can only be attacked by someone that is also AA, then that contradicts the concept of "accept all." However, I think we do need something that serves the same purpose. How about "accept pkbattle?" PKbattle would be a mode where you can only pk with people who are also PKBattle or with people who are specifically on your accept list. It might even take a little longer to turn off pkbattle than regular pkok. If you're pkbattle (indicated by a ! on the who list), then any of your SL groupmates who are also pkbattle can assist you, because your opponent will necessarily have to be pkbattle as well. In fact, since there's no barrier to turning on pkbattle, your attacker may well find themselves confronted with more than they bargained for! Accept all would continue to accept all, including those that accept only pkbattle, because taking all challenges is the point of accept all. So you'd have several levels of pk -- carefully constrained duels, pk with a small circle of trusted opponents, pkbattle, and accept all.

From: Akai_Hayate Thursday, March 22 2001, 05:30PM I'm so goddamn senile, i gotta post while i remember what i was thinkin just a few minor things to fraegis: I whine alot about how little dorks can and do, take cheapshots on my accept all arse, but i never once reject so your statement about us not being able to pkill cause were not accept a all, cause of cheapshots, is crap, viva la accept all! And to nepon, i was on that sl run, hell i was the one jumping you, and wh while your point is cool, about it being unfair to get reamed while your pal's cant do crap, i'm afraid it didnt happen that way to you, as i recal recall, moments after the first wfw on your arse, HerbertWest had headbutt ed Me into a whole new world of pain, and the accept all healer was healin sooooooooooo, point good, lie bad -shame nepon- Oh and one more to fraegis, new player to new player, i dont remember any of those freaks mars blabs bout either, but i think being truly legend legendary people would be legendary enough to be in the back issues of the Legendary times, which most of those people i dunno, are :P so let's not rag on them cause they played a few years before us, cause if we cared too, we can easily find out who used to be cool, and whos a legen Legend! --Akai_Cain, Walks among you like a shadow.

From: Akai_Hayate Thursday, March 22 2001, 05:40PM Well i guess posting without reading the appends is gonna get me in trouble again, bah. But fer da record, i aint afraid to die and will attack sl groups, then run without healing to jump the pd group, it isn't nice Nepon, to confuse strategy with fear, but enough of this.. One thing people keep saying is, the imms said dey would yank pk all over if pkok stunk, well i also remember think it was kaige saying, that pkok is whatchacallit, like a test run for a while, and if it sucked too bad they would yank pkok and bring back the old system, and well uh i guess since like 70% of the mud is enabled now, it doesnt suck but, Since thats like lil rp'ers getting pk set to duel thier lil pals, whateve whatever fine, make a silly lil area for them or something, but my diehard (i didnt say skilled) pkiller self wants old style back dangit, i wanna get out of pkill the old fashioned way "tell sandra may i have my xp set?" none of this, sit in nemea for 48 ticks then type two lil wurds anyways i's ranting and im sure most of the other pkillers like having 10 chars instead of one, but anyways.. clear --Akai_Somethingorother, out of witty titles to give himself.


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