Posted by Fear on 05/31
well, I was warned for this once, so I'll post it with more thought.
I jumped someone, they rented. I jumped that persons friend, and
killed him. I stole his cyclopes eye, with intentions of making the
first guy come back to fight me to get it back.
Later on, I log on my alt. the first person, who rented out on me
is on his alt. he kills me LD, and tells me he did it because
of what my alt did to his alt and his alts friend. again, he admitted
to doing this, and I have the log to prove it.
Now, I have a certain Admin Imm who claims this person did
nothing wrong, and broke no rules.
Please, post your thoughts on this.
Saturday, May 26 2001, 08:56AM
Lesson learned : Don't loot?
Saturday, May 26 2001, 09:25AM
looting isn't illegal, destructive crossplay is. I don't think the
question is whether or not Fear did the right thing, but whether
or not the other player was destructive crossplaying or not. Having
had a warning from Dominic about a year ago for the exact same thing,
I'm guessing it should be considered destructive crossplay, and
should be punishable.
-Chanel, Spiffy Coven Witch.
Saturday, May 26 2001, 10:33AM
Didn't say looting was illegal, but since it often cause trouble like this
it might be better not to loot?
The tough news is that Legend isn't democratic...Not even american
democracy rules here. An admin made a decision, and so it is.
If not satisfied with that decision, one can either take it to
the head of the department (Zandy, I think), or Kaige.
That is sorta the end to it, really.
Saturday, May 26 2001, 10:31AM
I hate warnings...
I dont trust immortals.
Saturday, May 26 2001, 11:40PM
Don't tell folks who your alts are.
Sunday, May 27 2001, 07:17AM
You should be concentrating on the jerk who broke the rules, not the minor
part of the problem like looting -peer fraegis- how you get that solution.
..is waaaay beyond me...'Hey officer that drunk driver just ran over my so
Son! Well then tell your son not to try crossing the street...
and getting to the real issue...one of my friends got jumped once, and i a
'ed to a pkiller to help him out, the second i logged on i got a very scar
scary threat from an admin warning me against doing what i was doing,
this person did it and was stupid enough to admit it?! they should burn!
bah, just got a wierd tell and lost my train of non-thought so ill just
say uh, burn the rule breakers! and burn fraegis for his nonstop wierd
comments about pkill being bad, no matter what the topic is.
Sunday, May 27 2001, 04:33PM
Skirting the issue and using an answer like 'don't loot' is pretty
irresponsible, imo. Aside from not addressing the question (whether or
not what said person did is illegal, which it seems to me it should be)
it's rather condescending. On the other hand, this issue probably should
have been brought up privately rather than on a board. But that doesn't
mean it shouldn't be dealt with. If this example isn't desctructive
crossplay, mind telling me what is?
Ganymede et al.
Sunday, May 27 2001, 05:01PM
I don't know if the issue is destructive crossplay or
is it OOC stuff.
Either way I think it's probably considered wrong.
Sunday, May 27 2001, 06:46PM
The reason this was brought to boards is to let pkillers know
that Chocorua considers all of this perfectly legal. I think pkillers
need to be aware of that.
Sunday, May 27 2001, 08:52PM
this is an obvious example of destructive crossplay, killing someones
alt for something their other alt did, is totally out of the question
it's almost like if i jumped sl and killed someone, then a person on
that run logged on their alt and killed me, they would be warned :P
this is pretty much the same thing... think about it :P
Sunday, May 27 2001, 10:57PM
I would appreciate it if my view points were posted by me. I may or
may not agree with the majority of the imm staff
on this issue and its currently
under discussion. Please keep my opinions out of this
until an official ruling is decided on. If anyone
wants to know my opinions, and i hardly think that anyone
does with teh welcome i get everytime i am on and visible
then mudmail or email me at firstname.lastname@example.org. I will
reply as soon as i get a chance.
Monday, May 28 2001, 03:56AM
I'm pretty sure that mortals have the right to know when decisions
like this, that make no sense, are made by the immortal staff,
Chocorua. And if I'm not allowed to post what I did, you would
have erased the original post. So save us all the grief of ehining
Monday, May 28 2001, 05:53AM
I was under the impression that destructive crossplay is, or was
illegal in pkill, and this was an exception to the general rule that
crossplay is discouraged but not illegal. But when pkok went in, there
was talk of players being able to use it to protect themselves from this t
of thing, without needing to involve admin (that was the reason behind
allowing multiple enabled characters). I don't think it was ever made
entirely clear to players whether this meant such actions were no longer
illegal. Personally, I think they still should be illegal (the mere introd
of channelgag wasn't taken to mean that its ok to swear on chat because pl
can deal with it themselves, for example). I don't think most players want
have reject lists a mile long in order to protect themselves from the 20
cross-playing alts of each of 10 players, but thats just my opinion.
Of course thats where the cross-play is blatantly obvioius. Where
it can't be proven, the reject command is there as a handy tool.
Monday, May 28 2001, 10:26AM
I am not sure that it is whining to ask to be able to
post my own view points. Sia has it right about the reject command
wether its decided that the situation warrants a warning or not
reject should be used to protect yourself from people that
you feel that you can not trust. The pkill community as a whole
should find a mechanism of keeping each other informed as to
who can and can not be trusted. Keep in mind that revealing alts
is illegal here but perhaps if you published a list of people
that are untrustworthy without connecting them to each other you
might just be able to help each other protect yourselves from
those who wish to abuse the system.
Again I wish to be able to post my own viewpoints on issues
so please don't post opinions in my name.
Monday, May 28 2001, 01:21PM
I've not posted, or tried to post your viewpoints in any way
Chocorua, I've simply posted what you said to me. And I find it funny
that you take so much offense in it. It only makes me think you
know that you were wrong, but have too much
pride to admit such.
Monday, May 28 2001, 07:32PM
Reject can be used in that regard, but don't clan accepts
override personal ones?
Monday, May 28 2001, 09:56PM
Good point Kendrik.
Tuesday, May 29 2001, 02:39AM
how can I possibly be accept all, and know all of his alts in
order to reject them guys? Come on, think before you post.
Tuesday, May 29 2001, 02:29PM
Stay at the issue at hands? Well, the looting kinda is, I
would say. I dont mind pkill, I am all for pkill. I am
also all against looting, which creates these situations.
We players can't do much about rule-breaking, except reporting
it to the imms, and if we don't like their decision, we can
appeal to Kaige in the last end. End of that. But we can
do something about avoiding creating those situations.
Like : Don't loot. Very simple, not against pkill, and
quite on topic.
Tuesday, May 29 2001, 11:30PM
my god, you guys are ridiculous... first of all fraegis, why must
you insist looting is the issue when the issue at hand is CHEATING
looting is not illegal, nor will ever be illegal (i hope) it is a
perfectly acceptable thing that has been used for ages, and i only
wish that players like you would grow up to realize that this is
a damn game!! things like looting HAPPEN in a game, and you should
learn to accept it because it is legal and therefor a part of this
game. as far as Fear's original post, i would hope that if what
chant vina gam dyn ex said was true about Chocorua's decision, that it wou
would be overturned by an immortal with more power, because that is
blatant cheating, and i hope the perpetrator is punished dearly
Tuesday, May 29 2001, 11:42PM
I know the issue is cheating. But if all players on legend said
'Hey, that was cheating', and the imms say 'nope, wasn't'?
What then? Then it isn't cheating. No matter how much we discuss
it here, and whether this or that person thinks it is cheating,
doesnt matter. The imms decide that solely. And if Kaige was
appealed to, and she agreed with the imm saying it was ok,
then there is nothing to do.
Very simple, really. So I found it more logical to comment on the
things we players -could- do something about. Like looting.
It creates problems 99% of the time. So why loot? The old 'I did
intend to give it back' have been heard before when a looter wanted
to justify his or her actions.
And my god, Zar, why must you insist it is just a game then still
be so upset about the ruling? If it is just a game to you, then
what is the problem if the judges/referees/imms have decided
that something is not against the rules? It's just a game, right?
(and on another note : Aye, I think too that the person who logged on
an alt and killed Fear did something illegal. But the imms have
a final say in that)
Wednesday, May 30 2001, 08:20AM
OK, was I wrong for looting? probably. Yet Fraegis is trying
to say that looting is that bad of a thing, it's really
not. or else it wouldn't be a part of this game, period.
There have been, people in the past, who have abused it, but I've
not seen that in a very long while. So you can sit back, and blame
me for looting all you want. But when the facts of this problem
present themselves, it has absolutely nothing to do with looting,
and everything to do with someone killing my alt, with thier own
alt, for something that this char did. Lets thinks about this,
Chanel (my alt) died because of what Fear did. Do I not have
the right to play two seperate chars? Has Legend come to a point
where everyone knows everyone elses alts, so there's no point
in even giving the new ones names? maybe next I'll make Fear2,
and later on down the road I'll make Fear3, or Fear_Junior. Or
Perhaps even My_Alt_Is_Fear.
This is rediculous, people. I think all pk'ers should append
to this, and let immortals know that we simply -won't- accept
this being legal. I couldn't care less about my alt dying, honestly.
what I care about is pkill in general. If this is accepted, there
is -NOTHING- that stops someone from dying to you, and then
immediatly logging onto an alt and killing you.
There needs to be a very clear rule about this, and it needs
to be strictly enforced.
Wednesday, May 30 2001, 02:17PM
Not to defend Chocura, but WTF who cares what you have logs of,
and I don't mean to say you are a liar Fear, because you are not.
But, logs can be doctored, they are just text files. I think an
ADMIN IMM has to witness a violation to issue a warning/banning.
So, get over it. Just reject the person, and all the alts you know.
Or, kill them back, who cares.
I just makes me f'ing sick that there are 5 year olds on here that
need to cry/whine to an Immortal everytime 'something doesn't go
their way'. And _NO_ I am not an alt of anyone involved, in fact
I don't even know who the other person is...
Thursday, May 31 2001, 01:20PM
If this was a violation of the rules, you could just as well say it
would be irresponsible NOT to report it, because players are supposed to
help uphold the rules. Just because you don't care that somebody is
multiplaying for example, it doesn't mean you shouldn't report it. And
most violations would not be witnessed by admin directly, unless a player
already alerted them to it. That doesn't just apply to cross-play.
Thursday, May 31 2001, 04:31PM
-nod Siachet- But I do agree with the middle part of Shemp's
append...Reject the persons and things should avoid a repetition.
What sickens me is a little different, though...It's those
above-mentioned 5 year olds on here, who cheats and lies whenever
they see a chance to do it.