Posted by LadyAce on 07/14
A few musing thoughts I had as I caught up on the boards....
People come and go, and the number of leaders rises and falls, but I
can hardly believe that it has dropped to 0. We do imm away some player
leaders, but we also imm non-leaders, and ultimately it can't be the
imms' jobs to provide leadership as imms and as morts.
What I wonder is this: if the leaders of your 'generation' have gone
their own way and are no longer leading here, what about all the leaders
who have arisen since then? They may not look like the leaders you knew,
but they are solid and hard-working, and deserve your support. Who are
these leaders? Look at the GMs of the clans, look at the people posting
to boards, look at the people talking on chat. Anyone willing to take
a stand and follow through on their ideas can be a leader. It doesn't
take star power, it doesn't take political savvy, we're lucky to not
be the real world here.
The leadership is us, imms and morts together. It is me and it is you.
Wednesday, July 11 2001, 08:30PM
I was sitting at work this evening thinking about morts I'd seen
recently taking definite leadership roles... Some may be immortal
morts, but on the whole I certainly am not seeing a lack of mort
leaders... Some are GMs, some are assistant GMs, and some aren't.
Who? Just a few names off the top of my head...
Emrysia, MoiraGwyn, Marcel, Mertjai, McDougan, Grunt, Aaaaarrgh,
Malia, Judah, Dechitre, Quimby, and many others.
Got them and plenty more out there that I haven't named.
Wednesday, July 11 2001, 08:38PM
who needs leadership anyway? i personally dont need anyone to lead me
in the directions that i want to go my characters that have strong rps
have them because i made them the ones that pk do so because i want them
to not because some imm came along and held my hand and said, "here you
go little sheep....head this way!" so those of you looking for leadership
why not try following the path that YOU create?
my 2 cents
Wednesday, July 11 2001, 09:24PM
how poetic ladyace
Listen, im not going to deny that there are "leaders" on this mud
however, I and I'm sure many others dont believe their "leadership"
is in the right path... whatever, i'm gonna head off because I'm
too lazy to get into this right now
Wednesday, July 11 2001, 09:48PM
No one is denying that there are leaders among us. They do deserve
support and do a great job with what they do. But the sort of leadership
I was talking about isn't as simple as being the GM of a clan or being
an active commentator on boards. I'm talking about people who galvanize
us, people who infuse energy into the mud. I'm talking about people who
cause us all to know who we are and where we stand RP-wise, by virtue
of whether we like them or not; whether we agree or disagree with them.
Don't look at this as a criticism of anybody. We are all here having fun
and doing well at what we do. I just believe that compared to what I've
seen come before, something is missing. In the past, that something was
provided largely by Legend's creators. Does it have to be provided by
immortals today? I don't think so. We can all do our best to try to make
things interesting again, but as in all things, a better understanding of
the issues of today can often be gained by understanding the ones of
Wednesday, July 11 2001, 09:58PM
I don't agree with Cheyla's list of people who are leaders, because half
of them only seem to be leading eachother.
And that is part of the problem. Not that they do this--I don't really
care what they do. The problem is the contempt people like me have for
the so-called leaders of today. Nobody has any charisma anymore.
Wednesday, July 11 2001, 10:16PM
Well, considering the shift in the general age of our playerbase and
the internet as a whole, you're not GOING to see the same proliferation
of leaders or the same variety. We've gone from having a playerbase
mainly in the college and post-college age scale to being largely
made up of pre-college, which has gotten increasingly larger as more
families get connected.
It is the rare high school student that steps up to a leadership role,
whereas in college, you're being forced into it a bit more as you learn
to make your own. And people tend to be much more comfortable with
themselves and know themselves better after high school.
If you want more leaders, for those of you in college, recruit some of
your college buddies and get them playing. Seek out those few younger
people you see leadership abilities in and support them, encourage
them to step up to the challenge. And be more of a leader yourself
instead of just posting about it. It isn't something that will happen
overnight or even over a few months, it will get discouraging, but if
you are dedicated and patient, you very well may be rewarded for your
efforts. And if you aren't you can at least say you tried.
Thursday, July 12 2001, 05:16AM
First -- I agree completely with Nepon here. People don't want
to be lead by hand, and I certainly don't want to lead them. Help
them? Sure. Order them around, or try to convince them that my way
is THE way? Nuh uh.
Second -- I could probably add at least another 10 names to Cheyla's
list, and it'd still be far from complete. Moreover, those who
inspire and encourage aren't always the vocally loud people. Many
inspire through their actions, though we may never encounter them
on boards or channels. And that is just as it should be.
So, do these 'leaders' lead each other around? Sure they do. Who
else would they be leading? Like everyone else, they play with the
people they know and like. They're not boy scout leaders. They're
not obliged to get to know everybody, nor to establish themselves
as a sort of guides to a better community. They're just playing,
like everyone else.
The way I see it you either have to get to know someone whom you
consider to be a 'leader', or become your own source of inspiration.
If you can't get anyone to notice you, it's not necessarily
THEIR fault. Maybe your RP or personality don't match. Maybe your
interests differ. You could be in an odd time zone. Etc.
If what you want in terms of community does not exist, get together
with a group of friends, and make it yourself.
"Resistance is futile; you will be lectured at."
Thursday, July 12 2001, 11:14AM
To paraphrase Kae
You cannot be lead those who do not
want to be led.
Especially when playing Legend is 100%
voluntary (except for you addicts)
Thursday, July 12 2001, 01:39PM
We are obviously going to have to agree to disagree here, because what
some of you see as "leadership" is a little more simplistic than what I
define it as. I'm not talking about shepherds leading sheep. I'm not
talking about allowing ourselves to be led around by the nose in whatever
direction someone else's fancy takes us. I'm talking about characters
with energy and with polarizing personalities, who are leaders for less
tangible reasons than just being GM of a clan.
Sure, all the people on Cheyla's list are nice people and are some kind
of leaders within their own circles. But I gave my own list in an append
to an earlier post. Did you know any of those characters? The difference
was that many of them had -mud-wide- influence...and not only did they
have this, but many times they had it in opposing directions to other
leaders. In other words, you didn't have just everybody who likes to RP
joining one or two clans. A lot were on opposing sides, and through that,
some very interesting conflicts would arise.
And yes, many of them were immortals' morts, taking an active interest
in the RP shape of their own mud. Yes, I and other people who want to
see more of this can "do it ourselves," which is a stock immortal answer
I've grown accustomed to in recent years, but that's easier said than
Those who have taken offense at this topic, shouldn't. I've never said
there were no interesting people on the mud or that the immortals are
doing a lousy job. All it is is something that's changed, and something
that is useful to be aware of so that it can be worked around.
Thursday, July 12 2001, 02:12PM
okay so let me get thi straight .. we (immortals) are supposed to:
build the mud
maintain the mud
improve the mud
play the mud
protect teh mud
AND be responsible for LEADING the mud in every way?
honestly why would we even open the mud up to everyone to play
if we were supposed to play every role there is in this community.
Days gone by teh immortals were the largest active players in the
playerbase. That is not the case anymore. The community as a whole
is the responsibility of all who play there.
It may seem a "stock" answer from teh imm staff to "do it yourself" but
that is simply because we don't number enough people
to dominate the community anymore, nor should we. And we don't
want to dominate teh community.
Thursday, July 12 2001, 02:28PM
Whoa, Choc. Hold on a sec. Nobody said anything about dominating. And
as I had hoped I'd made clear already, nobody expects a return to old
times. As you yourself said, 'Days gone by the immortals were the largest
active players in the playerbase. This is not the case anymore.' Well,
that was pretty much my point. That and that those immortal players, in
my view, were more dynamic and bold than most people are today.
There is no need to get defensive. It was only an observation.
Thursday, July 12 2001, 02:52PM
Perhaps the problem here is that there are no sheep...
Thursday, July 12 2001, 06:56PM
I did see your list, Chaykin, and I did play when those people were
around...but I can't say that I ever saw them as leaders. When I was
a mort, the leaders I remember most distinctly were Terrorspawn, Lori,
Lagmonster, Somar...in other words, people who were a little bit closer
to my own particular 'generation' as opposed to being here a bit before
me, people who I knew and spoke with ... they are the ones who
infused life into my experiences here. And I'm not sure it's because
they were exactly leaders. I think it's because I liked them, I looked
up to them, I enjoyed the experience and can point to them. I've forgotten
people, I know it. Alistaire, Fatale, Mayo, Stradivari, Balinor, Huma...
so I guess it may come down to semantics.
The only solution to an argument when it descends into semantics is
to define terms and begin again. So....:)
Thursday, July 12 2001, 07:03PM
Personally, I tihnk there is a common tendency to romanticize
the "old days." I am certainly guilty of it also. In some ways, the mud
will probably never seem as vivid, or the charisma so sparkling as it
was in my first year or two when I slept way too little. It seems
to me that the mud tends to cycle as well. I actually have
seen quite a lot of leadership in the last year or two that I've started
playing again. Some of it is obvious. Some of it less so. And while I don'
.. don't want to sound mean, I agree that at some level, you as
players (which includes my morts too, for that matter), need to
make the "leadership" that we want. The mud's a much bigger place
than it used to be in those early yesteryears. It may not always
be as easy to see all different subcommunities and their leaders that
we have. But I've seen them.
Thursday, July 12 2001, 10:45PM
Not to rag on you guys, but how isn't it the imms job to be a leader?
isn't that the entire point of your job? aside from the builders, who
have just been imm'd to get them out of the general population...-flee-
Just kidding, i love you builders :P i'd never get a string if it werent
for you guys heh -halo-
But on another topic...wasn't cheyla listing non-imm mort leaders?
I saw at least three imm's in that list...
Anyways thou, with my luck you guys were talking specifically about sl lea
leaders :P bleh.
Friday, July 13 2001, 10:16AM
its the imm's job (as builders and maintainers of the mud) to give us
the tools to lead/play/evolve here.
me, personally, i think the immort staff here is way way way too
cliquish and close minded when it comes to turning over the reigns to
morts. why can't any player build an area? why can't a player do
his own strings? why is the exp curve so obnoxious to make leveling
here litteraly a commitment to boredom, slaying wildebeests over and
f'ing over and over? i don't understand. why does it take so long
to get stuff balanced? why can't the source code for some skills be
made public - afraid the imm's pk morts will start getting owned?
don't give me this crap about the mystery of the game, if i choose to
read the files that's my choice. and why can't you repeat quests for
items, not exp? so big f'ing deal if i get 2 ape earrings - who cares?
all these things add up, to me, to this place having the feel it does
today. this is just my two cents, and so i log in, see if anyone is
online to pk with, kill or be killed or log off. pk is the only thing
keeping me here, and i think a lot of others too, i don't know, i can
only speak for myself
Friday, July 13 2001, 10:30AM
oh yeah, nominate cheyla for the most helpful immort! she is
teh fastest restringer on the mud haha!
Saturday, July 14 2001, 12:50PM
This is a response to Akai_Hayate...
I think that the case we're trying to make is that imm leadership is
a different role than mort leadership. Imms take care of the leadership
in a lot of directions -- what new areas are going in, how the code is
shaped, where the mud is heading in general. But we can't do these
things and also lead all the RP, all the runs, all the social interactions
etc.... we can't be everything, essentially. But just as we try to inject
what we can into the 'mortal-led' stuff, mortals also try to inject
what they can into the 'imm-led' stuff. I don't think we're trying to
duck any responsibility here, just give a perspective on how our
responsibility is balanced with yours.
This is partially a response to Ming, and partially an extension of the
Imms are responsible for the overall feel and direction of the mud, we
do what we can to present a coherent and interesting environment. There's
a level where requiring imm approval of descs and strings is a move for
control ... but listen closely to the context of that control. We are
trying to keep this place coherent, with a consistent feel and a positivie
experience for people. We want to keep typos and obscene stuff out of
strings, we want to keep some standard for descs so that they stick
with the mud's theme, etc. The good of the game is our idea of "control" -
I don't think that makes us control freaks, we're not gripping these
powers because we are all tyrannical. We're reserving these powers to
ourselves for the good of the game.
I can absolutely understand how, if you interpret us in the worst possible
light, you might take our actions the way you do, but I urge you to
consider other perspectives. The conclusions you reach about our reasoning
for separating imm and mort powers are not correct.