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Posted by Fynn on 07/18

Count the number of game-mechanic posts and appends, and compare them to what they were a couple years ago. Maybe we have made incredible progress in game balance so people don't see such anymore. Or, people simply ceased to care... or ceased to hope that such posts make any difference. A lot of mortal control has been coded so that most problems can be dealt by such code instead of getting to the root of the problem. Gag and reject probably saves a lot of hassle for admins that otherwise would have spent additional countless hours (hah) warning and punishing people. And a lot of hassle is saved for coders since a lot of pkers will label imbalance as pk skill and not fight chars they lose to, and if they do fight such unbalanced chars, they simply acknowledge the fact that they're taking needless chances, hence little need to make efforts for change. Besides, the posts rarely brought changes, or so people believe. It simply adds more grief and invites Jean to post :) The way I look at legend is quite similar to how i look at my alma mater. I don't expect to attend my alma mater the way i had used to, and even when I do, my concerns don't have the same urgency as before. So what if the campus is less lively and less friendly? I simply cherish the fact that the graffiti i have left or some records of me are kept on campus, and that the buildings I lived in are still standing. Yeah, it would probably rip my heart if i were to hear that a great hangout of mine is getting demolished to make room for a new lecture hall, or to hear that grass turf is being turned into a parking lot, but if it is better for the school... But what i find alarming is that i'm not the only one that is this detached. There are times when i believe the majority is as detached as i am. They all see themselves as having graduated from this place yet staying simply because... what? memories? The 'school' no longer functions as a place of learning or a place that can offer challenges to its 'students.' Rather, it has become a social gathering where little is to be learned, but a lot of effort is spent forming clicques, backstabbing, affairs... Maybe this was what people envisioned the mud to be, more people concerned with all kinds of interaction as opposed to 'beating the system' or getting to know the system. As i am happy RL with a BA, i could care less if the faculty here don't bother to research and open new classes for prospective MA and PhD students. But as someone proud of their alma mater, it would of course make me feel better if it did. Fynn

From: Ming Monday, July 16 2001, 09:29AM Yeah, very accurate IMO... maybe they (the Imms) should change the name of this place... LegendMOO ROLF as long as they leave in PK...

From: LadyAce Monday, July 16 2001, 04:47PM Just a small comment, but...the irony. One post talking about how imms are not giving enough power to the players, followed by one which complains about two pieces of code which give more power to players. Gag ...it lets people eliminate the nastiness of other people's mouths and manners, without having to run to the imms all the time. Sure, it is fewer complaints for the admin staff, but really, the way we used to deal with these, our best bet was to snoop the victim and hope tha t the offender persisted so that we could actually catch them. Plus we had to be online at the time, there would be no records kept unlike with most other types of rule-breaking. The ultimate result is that there's a little less work of that type for admins (who can then do other things, which require greater levels of talent and which benefit more people), sure. But there's also less of this junk for people to deal with, particularly at late hours. PKOK (and friendship, although friendship is less controversial) There's definitely a level where PKOK was a good way for the imm staff to stop focusing so much effort on a code feature which was only utilized by a small percent of the playerbase. But it can also be a tremendously empowering feature for players to be able to direct the way that the pk community functions, if it's used in that fashion. Besides gag/channelgag, pkok/friendship, and self-archival, I would also argue that we are responsive to many types of player ideas, and more so than we were in the past. Certainly we have a backlog of big code ideas that haven't gone in, and that backlog is being whittled away more slowly than we would all like it to be. But almost every week, we put in a smaller idea suggested by a player, and our bug & typo fixes from areas are very heavily player-generated. All in all, I think that this adds up to a good amount of power for players who want to use it. -LA

From: Dusk Tuesday, July 17 2001, 11:30AM Just a thought, but doesn't the mud need a certain amount of confrontation? People need to have their emotions flared every once in awhile to inspire them to act. Of course I don't mean the type of confrontation that is severly detrimental to others. People get angry by others actions, so they just use the code to ignore it. They are ignoring the catalyst which helps people get up off their ass, and fight/preach for what they believe. Back in the day, I remember killing morphine, and looting his string. Well, instead of everyone just rejecting me, the mercs band together, and chased me down with enormous groups and got the strings back. We used to have 5 on 5 pkill battles that would rage on for weeks! Now if the mere threat of controversy rears its ugly head, we just reject/gag it before it is allowed to flare up. With the way things are, we don't NEED leaders. Leaders are born in times of crisis! Without crisis, you are never going to have the basic fundamental tools to create an interesting environment. I am not saying rip out the code or anything, but people don't seem to understand why the leaders of the past existed. Just think about it. Master Dusk

From: Ganymede Tuesday, July 17 2001, 04:28PM I think Dusk is right. I've tried to be a leader of the so-called 'good' community of Legend, but the fact is, conflicts like that barely exist anymore. As such it's next to impossible to motivate anyone to follow such causes. Where is the need? It's not even just the overdone and cliche 'good vs evil' conflict. There isn't ANY major conflict left. It's been almost totally sanitized away. In my opinion, there is a point where we should be willing to accept some level of danger from other players in order for things to be exciting. Sadly, many players are so afraid that their feelings might get hurt, they just don't ever engage anybody. We've now seen both extremes: total war, conflict and chaos, and total avoidance of any conflict at all. Now it's time to find something in the middle. Ganymede et al.

From: Tempus Wednesday, July 18 2001, 02:21AM I agree with both Dusk and Ganymede. I think by allowing people to reject or accept pk, it made it into a venture that lack any real risk. Back when someone joined into pk, you were joining into a world of high risk and excitment. I enjoyed the risk, the looting, permaing, etc that people seem to find bad with past pk. I think that by taking away that ugly aspect of pk you are taking away the fun of pking. Its like a War but without the bloodshed and everyone goes home without a scratch. What fun is that? Why bother even joining in? I really believe pk isn't as good anymore. There is no more Clan to Clan battles for ideals. Its all lets duel and stuff like that. -Tempus, newbie of legend.

From: Mallory Wednesday, July 18 2001, 10:26AM I really think all the opportunities are in the code, people just don't use them as long as an imm. don't force them to. It really annoys me to read post after post of complaints about pkok, when all it takes to have the old pk back is a group of people agreeing on it and regulating it among themselves. So what if someone wants to ruin it by rejecting you even though you agreed not to? So reject him and pk with him again... Pkok has that option, along with the option to pk when one chooses as an extention to rp, an option the old system didn't really have. (oops) And as for all the fights being duels, well, I don't know about you, but I keep people accepted once I've accepted them, so there's a potential element of surprise there.. -Mallory

From: Ganymede Wednesday, July 18 2001, 12:30PM Yes Mallory, the opportunities are in the code. But Legend is just like real life: conflict (and the resulting comraderie) arise out of a need, not a desire. A few years ago, the clans (all pk clans) were the center of Legend's social scene. Since we had people who RPed and PKed as genuinely threatening bad guys and they couldn't be rejected, that created a need for genuine "good-guy" forces to combat them and keep them in line. Nowadays, nobody really does the bad guy thing. And even if they did, people would just all reject them because they take the game too seriously and get their feelings hurt too easily. So there's no threat, and hence no great need for opposing pk clans and no excitement. You will say that if we really wanted to have that back, we'd just all agree to accept one another and get it back. But Legend is a community, and among such a large group of people, it just isn't as easy as saying "let's do it" to get everyone to obey and adhere to the same rules. I'm sure even the imms know how hard it is for even a small group of people to all agree to something. Just saying we'll do it isn't enough. We need a better way to try to get that old excitement back within the bounds of pkok. Ideas on how to do that? I'm thinking. Ganymede et al.


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