Posted by Carbon on 09/10
After reading Ea! code change on the welcome board
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I thought I would run over here and address something I find odd.
High perc will no longer give a bonus to hitroll?
Of corse this change hasn't went in yet so I can't see
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exactly what it will do, but I don't see why it is being changed.
Sure alot of us say "Stupid sniper never misses a hit"
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But honestly, s/he is a SNIPER. An expert in hitting what s/he aim's at
And of corse you have to see 'or should have to'
what your aiming at to hit it. So it makes since for
high perc to give a bonus to hitroll.
Just my two cents
Friday, September 07 2001, 09:07AM
what doesn't make sense is that they hit max hits and obliterate/decimate
a fighter while sitting on the ground and the fighter demolishes. I
think this is a step in the right direction in making hitroll less
important, as it is currently, in my opinion, the most important stat
in the game, including dex and strength.
Without hitroll, your screwed.
Friday, September 07 2001, 12:17PM
So your point of view is 'Hey lets just make everyone have no hitroll'?
If anything I think snipers should keep ther hitroll
and bash should be changed to actualy do something other
than keep a person in the room for two rounds.
Perhaps give a -hitroll when sitting and -gasp- even -ac!
Respect my Authority!
Friday, September 07 2001, 12:28PM
no, I'm saying snipers hit too hard. The way the current system works
you don't need damroll to do good damage, you need hitroll. And snipers
ripping and decimating constantly on stuns or even not on stuns because
they have 35 hit and 3 damroll while the fighter with 15 hit and 45 dam
is wrong. So, snipers need to hit less hard, fighters need to do damage
at all since currently they are laughable at best.
Friday, September 07 2001, 12:53PM
in "reality" snipers are known for shooting things and the fighters
are in the front lines... snipers aren't the ones who get in there
and hit the hardest when a war was faught, they stayed in the background
and picked people off without anyone seeing them.
Friday, September 07 2001, 01:00PM
Just a note on Ken's post...
Snipers as we call them in this game double as thiefs.
Thief's use there perception to place well aimed attacks
that dish out lots of damage.
Friday, September 07 2001, 01:31PM
The way I see perc is below 10 you're blind and deaf and all that.
Between 10 and 40 are varying degrees of near/farsightedness, and
being hard of hearing and stuff. 40-60 should be pretty much a normal
range of hearing, and 20/20 vision. In the high ranges of perc, you
start being able to hear whispers and sounds from other rooms, see far
into the distance, see in the dark, etc. So high perc would help somebody
when shooting, but anything above normal wouldn't have much affect in
hand to hand combat. So the perc hitroll bonus didn't make much sense.
In terms of game balance, I don't agree with the change, because I don't
like anything that downgrades chartypes. However, I do agree that it was
weird how hitroll was affected by two stats and damroll by only one. I
think a better change (if it isn't to late) would be to leave hitroll
as it was with dex and perc, and add dam bonuses with some other stat
when high, like say...spirit.
That still wouldn't fix the problem Sammael pointed out, with hitroll
just mattering a whole lot more than damroll. I'm not sure what would
Friday, September 07 2001, 02:47PM
For Authority.. thieves traditionally did not hit as hard as
warriors. If you're thinking about AD&D, I'll grant you that
backstab is a powerful damage skill but that hasn't changed
The gist of it is this:
The strength of dex is avoiding damage.
The strength of con is taking damage for a long time.
The strength of str is dealing damage.
If a sniper can deal as much damage or more in an
avg melee round as a str fighter then we have a problem.
Friday, September 07 2001, 03:28PM
I agree, Huginn. But the problem wasn't so much dex doing too much
damage (I agree we did too much, but not grossly so). Rather it is that
str doesn't do enough.
Darla, a sniper who counted on high hitroll and is now mediocre.
Friday, September 07 2001, 03:37PM
I agree with Darla. Strength doesn't do enough damage, compared to dex, bu
then that's also because you need hitroll to have damroll count for
anything. Snipers may have been doing too much damage, but it still
makes sense that hitroll should depend on perc, since you need to
be able to see openings in your oponents defence. Maybe the formula
for hitroll should just be revised so that it depends on dex and perc,
but in a different way than it does now.
Friday, September 07 2001, 03:41PM
I think this change is exactly the right step to take. Hitroll and
damroll are way too important as it is, and hitroll was WAY too
important because it was so easy to get high bonuses in it for snipers.
Dex/perc characters were hitting too hard, and this fixes that. So
what if it's a downgrade (a needed one) to one chartype? Do you
suggest that they should make every other fight type stronger just to
avoid a downgrade to one type? That would create tons of balance issues
to fix, and would be a huge mess.
This is a great start down the path of Legend no longer being dexmud.
Ganymede et al.
Friday, September 07 2001, 04:33PM
I disagree. I don't think that as a dex/perc I was hitting too hard. I
never damcap, and rip only on the rarest occasions. The things was, I
decimated with fairly good consistency. But then, why shouldn't I be
able to hit well, when I am a pure fighter of a type? I can't heal, and
I cast no magic.
I fail to see how making hitroll harder to get makes it any less
important. If anything, this makes (mostly old) +hit gear more
important, since snipers no longer have decent natural hitroll without
I think that one of the reasons that dex fighters were able to hit
close to how hard str fighters do, is heavy dex weapons.
In any case, I don't believe that this change was the best solution.
Friday, September 07 2001, 05:56PM
yea, I have 20 hitroll
what can I say?
Friday, September 07 2001, 06:02PM
They also changed the natural of a 100 stat giving you 25 to either
hit or dam? I have 100 dex and am wearing hitroll gear and
still only have 25 hitroll.. not that im complaining I just
wanted to know if they also messed with the natural setup as well.
Previously stated to my knowledge was 100 stat = 25 natural of hit
Sandman one that likes the change, but feels bad still for str
Friday, September 07 2001, 09:20PM
Lets see if i have this right....
There is an imbalance, so instead of implimenting
new skills or beefing up other char 'types' we down-
grade the one in question, making it less desireable
to run and making higher lvl chars a lot more worthless
-especially since they've already done all the quests
for stats based on how they used perc for hitroll, and
cant change anything this late in their char's lives...
Just kinda glad i perma'd my sniper before this happened,
so im not as ticked off as i COULD be -pshrug-
- Kayin, low enough level to managed to adapt to the change....
Friday, September 07 2001, 10:05PM
we're talking like 6 frickin hitroll, you people are freaking out
over nothing, full agg a sniper is still going to have 32 hitroll
which is MORE then sufficiant to do incredible damage, probably
more on average then any of my fighters on a non stunned target.
If 32 is that much worse then 38, then maybe THATS the problem.
Friday, September 07 2001, 10:14PM
Im my opinion, its true that str isn't hitting as hard
as they should, although it'd be interesting to see if that's
true for str vs con as well as str vs dex. If it turns out
to only be the later, then maybe the answer would be to
change the chance of parrying/dodging while resting.
Friday, September 07 2001, 10:22PM
as it stands bash is almost worthless, its only use being to keep
someone in the room. I think without a doubt the chance to
dodge/parry needs to be DRAMATICLY reduced while sitting. There's
a reason people headbutt when they have 100 str/con, and thats
because one stun round is worth so much more then 2 sitting rounds.
Friday, September 07 2001, 10:29PM
I somehow fail to see why people -have- to rant if it's a downgrade
imms make porters porters, we have rants
imms make thieves thieves instead of hitters, we have rants
but then again, we should all be able to solo -every- mob on the mud
outtanking them, anything should be considered an insult to -every-
player's intelligence, as they surely know better
There exists no separation between gods and men
one blends softly casual into the other.
-- Paul Muad'Dib, Usul of Tabr
Saturday, September 08 2001, 12:20AM
I'm not sure about dodge, but I'm pretty sure parry has serious
disadvantages (if it works at all) while sitting.
It used to, at least =)
Saturday, September 08 2001, 01:00PM
I think is a little more than 6 hitroll lost. I think i was used to
have 31 and now i have 21. I agree though that the change may balance
a bit...only one thing though. Now i will fight fighters full
of old eq and with better hitroll that i have now. If you want to
balance is time that the imms take the right step and take off
all the old eq.
Monday, September 10 2001, 05:41AM
I like the way Huginn described it in append number 7. That being
said I still think perc should figure into tumble. Hitroll SHOULD
be necessary to land hit hard. It's not that str dosn't hit any
harder it's that the massive crippling blows don't land as often.
You SHOULDN'T damcap if you can't hit your target. I look at it like
a bodybuilder fighting bruce lee. He's big as hell, can't wipe his
own ass, but if he hits you it's really gonna hurt. Meanwhile lee
ducks and dodges while bustin' repeated precision kicks to the dome
which is gonna bust up the big dude pretty good. I have 29/7 hit/dam
and havn't ripped to shreds, stunned or otherwise in a very long
time. I do decimate regularly, when I hit 7 to 9 or so times a
round, 3 times and it's a peirce hard or so. I've taken caps from
reload composite 3.quiver swings of an sss before. Str DOES make you hit r
really hard, but like the bodybuilder, if your slow (low dex) your
opponant will have moved by the time your shot gets where it's going.
This char dominated in the low to high mid levels, like most snipers
do (mostly cuz of backstab). Even with just a pair of Cian's gloves
for +hitroll though, Paranoia repeatedly pounded the crap outa
backstabers. he had 100 dex and 80 str, and decimated like clockwork
at 30-34, standing v standing. Ripped a lot on bashed/stunned rounds
too. If I hadn't let him poof and added the expert weapons prof at
35 he prolly woulda hit real hard. I don't see the problem, looking
to me like people want to have their cake and eat it too. Want to
hit real hard regularly without having to catch up to your target
first. Siirous hits like a mack truck, Varnel's bashes are anything
but 'almost worthless'. Leatherface was my last char, he had real
trouble hitting on bashed/standing rounds, but tore it up when my
target was stunned. That's reasonable way I see it considering his
dexterity (quickness of movements) was really low so he couldn't
move fast enough to hit a guy that isn't just going to stand there
and let me whack on him.
bleh.. i'm not too good at splainin', think I said mostly what i was
oh, that thing about perc and tumble at the top, I meant if hitroll
no longer makes us snipers land our shots regularly (like it does
now, with whatever bonus perc gives) there should be some other
bennifit to being a specialized char type. Tumbling/hitting more
often than chars with FAR lower awareness/aim seems logical to me.