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Pkill/PKOK Poll Questions

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Posted by Kaige on 01/15

Some questions came up regarding Contracts and the PKOK System and how they should be handled by the admins. In dicussing that, the immortals raised several other questions concerning pkill and the PKOK System.

Please take a few minutes and answer the questions on the poll at the menu and if you would like to add any other useful comments, please feel free to use this board here. This is basically an information and opinion weighing exercise, it is _NOT_ a democratic vote taking.


From: Chaykin Friday, January 11 2002, 10:02PM

So you guys are going to do whatever you want to do anyway, and just in case the poll reflects that it's what we wanted, you can say so, and if not, you can say oh well, it's not a democracy. Sounds like a scheme worthy of characters in a Joseph Heller book, hehe. ;)


From: Tercei Saturday, January 12 2002, 01:53AM

and this surprises you? this is how things have been done since the beginning here at legend.....makes you wonder why we should even bother answering some stupid questions that make no difference whatsoever!

From: Akai_Hayate Saturday, January 12 2002, 05:42AM

I was checkin out 1 and 6 on the poll and I think I just vomited in terror So far the questions are do we want big brother, do we want to be totally abandoned, and do we want pkill totally removed, and considering how out numbered the pkillers are, even by pkill haters not just noncombatants, I guess we can say goodbye to pkill alltogether huh? Unless chaykin is right and the poll will not affect the imm desicision whatsoever, in which case. ..I guess we can say goodbye to pkill alltogether huh?

From: Kaige Saturday, January 12 2002, 10:06AM

Wow. I asked for USEFUL comments here, and all the Chicken Little's run out screaming that the sky is falling.


And yes, you've got it right. this isn't a democracy, never has been, never will. But do we listen to what players are saying? Yes. Are the vocal ones pointing at the sky always right? No. Are they always wrong? No. Do the immortals always make the right decisions? No. But do they do it with the best interests of the game as a whole in mind? Yes. Are we human? Yes.

So, lets see... we're looking for information and constructive comments... anyone have any?

Btw: the range of the answers in no way reflect any plans, but are intended to gauge interest and determine relative numbers of opinions, not the decibel level of them.


From: Frankie Saturday, January 12 2002, 10:45AM

Well, now that there's actually an invitation to express opinions, I guess it would be a good time to share mine. I am strongly in favor of the old style of pk system. If that means keeping pkok and having a forced AA, I am all for that. When PKOK was first going in, I felt that it would be a good system - I liked the idea that I could fight duels with characters that have long been gathering dust in the archives, and all of that. However, before long, I realized how wrong my thoughts were. The system now allows for more player abuse and the like than old pk could have conceivably permitted. Want to fight someone without fear of retribution from that person's friends or clanmates? Accept just that person, you don't need to worry as long as that person isn't enough of a threat. Want to avoid pkill until the timer wears down? Not too hard to do if you know the places to go. In addition, the lines of rules have become blurred beyond vision. Who can heal pk damaged characters? Can a surgeon accepting the person who damaged someone heal them, or do they need to accept all? Who can issue contracts for the death of someone? Do they have to accept the person they want killed? Do they have to accept the person carrying out the contract? Many questions arise that can not be resolved in the system as is.

In the old pk system, life was simple. Everyone could have one pk character (which is still what I think they should be allowed), rules were cut and dried - if you wanted to engage in pk activities, you had to be pk enabled. End of story, if you're pk enabled, you can interfere. If you're not, you can't. The only flaw I find with the old system is that, as indicated by many immortals who were unhappy with the number of complaints under it, was that it caused too many harrasment complaints, etc. However, the solution for this is simpler than any that are possible. When people swear on chat, they are told that they must obey the rules or leave. Continued objections to these rules lead only to the same response. The same should hold true in pkill - harrasment should not be tolerated, and rather than spoiling a bunch of apples, a few of the bad apples should be removed. At the risk of throwing more analogies than can be tolerated, a few eggs should be broken so that the omelet, in this case LegendMUD pkill, can be made whole.

From: Craven Saturday, January 12 2002, 11:57AM

very insightful chaykin...your damn smart, I'd have to agree :)

From: Chaykin Saturday, January 12 2002, 11:20PM

Well I wasn't knocking anybody, I thought it was a funny observation :) For the record I'm glad the poll is there. Even though the answers themselves won't dictate what happens, it tells me that some thought is at least being given to making revisions to the current pk system, whose problems were already summed up pretty well in Frankie's append.


From: Vushnak Sunday, January 13 2002, 03:57AM

The problem with the new pkill is that it makes the idea of clans virtually worthless. No one in my clan can protect me if I get jumped by someone who isn't accept all.

There should be a mode where you can be accept all to everyone who is accept all. That is like old style pk.

The new style pkill is good for people who want to duel and could be left as it is.

But the people who want to duel are fewer than the people who want to pkill and the mud would be much improved if pk was more active.

From: Chocorua Sunday, January 13 2002, 09:19AM

pkill activity doesn't in itself make the mud a better mud. It can make pkill better and it even can make RP more rounded. The problem here is that pkill has and is a drain on the coding/administrative staff. There are always ways to exploit the system and there are always people who can't be trusted to use the system as intended. We code and write rules around that.

A large portion of the code and rules in place is to protect the pkiller from the no-pkiller. This is probably as it has to be. It makes me annoyed that in doing this we almost always limit what the non-pkiller can do in the situation where they are put at risk because of some inconsiderate pkiller who is taking advantage of a run to further their own ego growth. Pkill is a choice and one that I think should carry heavy consequences. The argument is always that the non-pkiller chose to group with the pkiller. THis is true but its also true that the no-pkiller may very well not have known they were groupng witha pkiller. One solution for this would be to make each pkiller's accept and reject lists public to anyone. An invasion of privacy? kinda..

anyhow thats my 2 cents worth. nt very enlightening but might give you some idea of why pkill is so slow to get code/rule fixes put in place.


From: Pop Monday, January 14 2002, 11:03AM

I would have to totally agree with Chaykin. Not that that matters.

From: JamaciaMan Tuesday, January 15 2002, 01:25PM

I was born and raised in old pkill....

I wanna go home....


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