This is going to be a rant because I feel like some of us have had
the wool pulled over our eyes -- the goal was ALWAYS skill trees
and with that would come a complete skill wipe so I learned things
like cooking and fishing and mend and bash and judge -- BAH --
then I learned skin a few weeks ago so I could participate in the
alaskan area and in some other areas to do quests -- NOW you all
have added a skill set that EVERYONE would choose over being able
to cook and fish or what have you, and I think it bloody well sucks
cow balls that I can't learn them because I was under the assumption
that no new cool skills were going to be added before skill trees a
long time ago and there was no sense in saving up practices -- In
light of this I would like to be able to 'UNLEARN' all my skills and
have to go around and pick the ones I want again -- having accidently
learned some skills while talking to mobs in foreign places and
learning some others for the hell of it because there wasn't a good
alternative is NOT a good reason to punish us who have learned a lot
by keeping us out of the new spirit 'skill tree' BAH BAH BAH BAH BAH
I'm so mad I want to spit.
A skill wipe is in order now that work is being done and skill trees are
lock w the window in order to recognize the fact that the mud has changed
directions from those previously made public.
Saturday, May 10 2003, 08:49AM
EITHER THAT OR GIVE US ALL 3 PRACTICES MORE.
Saturday, May 10 2003, 09:22AM
I understand the concern that these
new skills would be nice to have over others
but you did use those other skills to your benefit
and will continue to do so. Perhaps another
character would be the best place to explore the
use of new skill combinations
Saturday, May 10 2003, 10:47AM
I really dont think the 'go make another character' because
the rules were changed is a very acceptable responce.
What happen to those of us who actauly enjoy playing the
same character we made how every many days ago and now
find that character at a disadvantage because the
rules were changed? There needs to be and should be a
way for us to be able to adapt to this. Had we known
our full skill choices before hand I seriously doubt that our
characters would have made the choices we did.
Sure I can understand your first characters having lousy skills
when you were/are a newbie abnd didnt know any better,
but forcing us to 'go suffer' since the rules changed is dumb.
Perhaps some people may view their characters as disposable
but I have alts that I still enjoy playing after 5 years of playing
and that they have to get the short end of the stick because the
skill set has changed and have no chance at recourse is silly.
Saturday, May 10 2003, 03:37PM
Pop chose to learn skin to do quests, and now after he has
done said quests and new skills have come out, he wants to turn in
the skill to learn something else...
That doesn't sound very fair to me, to those people who had a few
practices left over after learning what they needed or really
wanted and saved them in anticipation of what might come.
Sometimes, you have to live with the choices you have made... There
are a number of skills you can currently unlearn, and the new
skills that went in yesterday were first hinted at/discussed at a Q&A
in early April.
I for one certainly won't get any less enjoyment out of playing the
characters I've played for over 5 years simply because they can't learn
one, some, or all of the new skills. They honestly wouldn't make my
favored characters or play style THAT much different.
Saturday, May 10 2003, 03:57PM
Well -- when you use the world 'CHOSE' it is a bit strange because I
did learn skin, but didn't really choose between the new skills and old
skills -- actually as malia pointed out, as an augmenter I can't even
learn the new skills anyway -- I do think that if skills are going to be
added then practices should be added -- I think that after 5 years the
character should be able to learn another skill -- maybe after a certain
number of hours -- you could get an additional practice -- Cheyla is right
that I learn skills in order to do quests -- I wish I could have a practice
to learn how to sing in order to do a quest -- but I decided it wasn't worth
th wasting a 'precious' practice on it. I'm glad I learned skin actually and
and wouldn't want to take it back -- but I wouldn't have learned how to
fish, judge, and if some stupid mob hadn't taught me how to bash when I was
talking to him trying to figure out a quest I wouldn't have learned it --
I've never really understood why it is that learning how to fish could
possibly be an equal to say expert fencing or herblore -- I mean it would
take a long time to learn all the herbs in the world, and it takes 2 secs.
to learn to fish and even after you learn to fish you don't catch a stupid
fish everytime -- does it really take 1 WHOLE practice to learn how to
cook something -- sheesh. I basically don't like it when things are added
to the game which older characters are unable to take advantage of based
merely on hte fact that we are older characters. Doesn't seem right to me
that I can make a newbie and learn things while having 25 playing hours on
the character while Pop who has over 1000 hours (sad, but true) can't
learn. My basic point was that many of the skills I did learn were b/c
I was under the impression that a skill wipe was happening in the not so
distant future years and years ago -- clearly it didn't happen and in
order to rectify the situation older characters should be able to 'unlearn'
skills -- why am I being given the opportunity to unlearn my bow skills --
I love my bow skills -- I hates that some swedish knob taught me how to
bash when I was under the strength spell -- I can't even learn bash
unless I have strength on -- what a waste of a practice.
Saturday, May 10 2003, 04:27PM
1000 hours is a lot on a character? Since when? Oh well. I have no
life it'd seem.
Anyways. I do see your problem. I've re-rolled characters several times
in order to preserve the name/RP and still take advantage of the new
changes. On the whole though, I think the best way to go about things is
to never presume that nothing will be set in stone from here and on,
because Legend is constantly changing, and we just have to change along.
That said, I'm sure we can argue the usefulness/value/logic of some skills,
and that there'd be no harm done in doing so, but I wouldn't expect
a full skill wipe to happen anytime soon.
Saturday, May 10 2003, 04:50PM
well if we were to return your practices just because you
no longer find those skills useful, it would only be fair to
also remove any benefit they have ever gotten you. whois's
pcflags etc... thats a silly process and a bad idea.
Addmin more pracs, alsoa bad idea, changes the balance
we are trying to chieve by allowing more than we are willing
to let you learn.
Sometimes when we make changes we allow a skill reimbursal for
conflicting skills and what not. Skin isn't going to be one
of those. As for you using up all your pracs, that is a
decision you chose to make. even if you don't think so you did.
The new skills are there for people to choose and you can create a
new character and test them out. Legend, as Kae said, is always
changing and when you login you are informed that we are
always changing. unfortunately it seems that even
giving you all access to new skills and new tactics
you are simply going to be upset and feel cheated. Not a damn thing I can do about that.
Sunday, May 11 2003, 11:51AM
You play the slighted benefactor role well. While I appreciate the
new changes and have said so, one of my arguments was that some of
the skills are only good to get a whois or something which I
obviously enjoy -- HOWEVER before I learned any skills to get whois's
I learned all the skills to make the char as good as possible -- also
if you had read more of this thread than the first post you would see
that I was correctly informed after the initial post by Malia that I
couldn't learn these new skills anyway b/c I know augment. This still
doesn't change the fact that your argument is weak. If you want to give
me all the benefits that I have gotten from accidently learning bash from
a mob who taught it in an unclear fashion that would be swell. When the
changes went in making stats move slowly, people could get reimbursed for
practices -- likewise when inspire was changed as well as bow skills and
augment -- these skills were offered reimbursements -- I am arguing that
because new skills which are very nice have been added that people should
be given the opportunity to learn them by changing in other skills they
currently know -- making a new character is not a good argument in my
opinion. I don't have the time nor the inclination to kill mice just
so I can see if I like these new skills. Giving us the opportunity to
unlearn a skill in order to learn a newly added skill follows the same
logical path as giving mages an opporunity to increase their cast level
of newly added spells by practicing using spellbooks. If a skill wipe is
too much to ask, then I would say trading in a skill for a new skill is
not too much to ask. N.B. This is not really complaining -- obviously I
think that the new skills are so cool that I would really like the opportunity
nity to learn them. (Other incarnations, obviously). You don't see why
older characters would feel 'slighted' because they never had the opportunity
-ity that newer characters have had? Sorry that you can't put yourself in other
Sunday, May 11 2003, 12:51PM
Seeing as you argue that you as an old char should have
obvious benefits compared to newer chars, ie, per your
definition of whether a skill is usable and or worth
the practice session, you can trade it in for another skill
without any cost whatsoever. (basically making your chars
practice sessions unlimited as you can always claim that kick, bandage
or chant sucks). I vouch that all newbies should get something in return
seeing as they do obviously not qualify for things that are concieved by
you as things that should not apply to you.
my proposition is this:
All newbie kits should henceforth consist of 2 old hernes horns,
an old SSS or wormy depending on first choice of stat.
these items should cost 5 rent each(or newbies won't be able to rent them)
ofcourse, they would require to be ungive'able, and non-sellable, so that
older chars will not have this privilige that is being newbie.
seeing as the older chars have had those items readily available before,
I think it's more than fair to give all newbies upon creation.
/Valya of Obninsk, rather mused.
Sunday, May 11 2003, 02:45PM
I think a lot of you have missed the major point of this post.
We WERE told we would be wiped before trees. End of story. You
cannot deny it, you said it, you posted it, its in writing. However
I don't know that this justifies as trees and we should be wiped
for this. But I do see where he's coming from...he only learned
many of his skills BECAUSE he thought hey, I'll try them and if
they suck, I'll lose them in a few years anyway. He's not asking
to drop skills that gave him whois's, he's asking to drop skills
that give him little or no benefit what so ever...armwrestling
comes to mind.
Sunday, May 11 2003, 04:26PM
bash, satire, listen, judge, hide, steal (totally changed + I don't pk)
armslore, mix potion, foul, meditate (which was changed), foul, mend
cooking, fishing, make amulet.
I would gladly give ALL of whatever benefit these lucious skills have given
me and all the wonderful whois's I have because of them for the opportunity
to change one of these skills in for a newly added skill -- but since I can't
learn the newly added skills I don't get to change any skills in --
HOWEVER, in the futre it would be nice for me to learn a new skill which I
might be eligable to learn ( something that would help a augmenting deadeye )
I am arguing a point that would not directly benefit me, Pop, but that doesn't
mean that the point is invalid. I can see the point of whoever posted that
about getting old equipment (I have none), but I would say that is the benefit
of being an older character -- there shouldn't EVER be a benefit to being
a newer character -- why else would their be spellbooks in the game to
raise cast levels unless the imm staff believed this also?
Monday, May 12 2003, 09:04PM
I don't really have any new argument or point to make, I just wanted
to put my name down in agreement with Pop - who knows, if enough players
agreed, amybe there would be a change (well, probably not). Anyway, I
think a freeing-up of the policy on skill reimbursements would be a good
thing. I've never really enjoyed levelling up new characters, and Kaine
is pretty much the only one I play. However I've lost a bit of interest in
him, and as a result Legend, of late. Being a bit more generous with skill
reimbursements would probably bring a bit of that interest back. Just
wondering if other players feel similarly? Make yourself heard!
Monday, May 12 2003, 10:27PM
I remember being told there would be a skillwipe. Other issues
aside, the playerbase believed there would be a skillwipe because
the administration said there would be. I'd like to hear some imms
address this. Maybe there will be a wipe after a certain number of
new skills go in? Are you changing your mind on that topic totally?
Just clue us in a bit.
Tuesday, May 13 2003, 04:34AM
Geez people. We put in new skills because we needed to balance out
pure fighters so that they could compete with mages and druids.
We offered reimbursements for SOME skills so that people could opt
to get these new skills if they wanted.
THIS IS NOT SKILLTREES. There will still be a skill wipe if/when
trees are ever completed. Once again, this is not it. Skilltrees,
to date, are on permanent hold.
Regarding being more liberal with reimbursements: It's not something
that we're willing to do, simply put. We don't want to allow people
to totally change their character from a mage to a fighter, or from
a fighter to a mage(full mage, that is), just because we put in a few
new skills to help out fighters.
Can I say that in the future, we will/will not add more new skills?
Nope. If we see that there is a way to help balance things out again
by adding some new ones, we probably will. Will we allow some skills
to be reimbursed if we do so? Can't really say for sure. So if you
have 25 practices left, think ahead. It never hurts to be safe. If
you really want to try out the new skills, and are unable to do so,
then maybe you should consider making a new character. You might
enjoy it. Even after 37 characters, I've still made a new one
just to try out something fresh.
Anyway, hope that's coherent. I'm pre-coffee.
Tuesday, May 13 2003, 10:33AM
That I can tell, nobody's complaining over the fact that we have
new skills, Sandy dear. As a couple of people have pointed out,
we were told--several times, over the course of a few years--that
there weren't going to be any significant skill additions before
skilltrees (I recall a Q&A where an imm was mentioning how they
liked suckerpunch a couple years ago, strangely enough) and that
skilltrees would be accompanied by a complete skill wipe. While
nobody is complaining that you've decided to put in some new skills
after all (least of all me, since I happen to be one of those boring-
as-hell fighters that benefitted most), perhaps it would have been
nice if around legend's birthday you could have mentioned "By the
way, we'll be adding some new skills into the system in the next few
months, and we won't be offering skillwipes, so use your practices
carefully." Sure, several older characters are still screwed, but
then this conversation would probably have been wrapped up three months
ago, and at least some people wouldn't be in the situation they're in
now. And by the way, Sandy-dear, you may have 37 characters, but some
of us are simply unwilling to pump that much time and effort in just
so we can find out whether or not it's worth getting a new skill. Many
people on Legend that I know of have less than five level 40+ characters
and several have just one (myself most definitely included). Sadly, for
those people who are allergic to the mind-numbing activity that is XP
running, making a new character isn't an option, either.
Dolor Ferriscor, who has 15 practices and almost every useless skill
Legend's created, including armwrestling.
Tuesday, May 13 2003, 07:25PM
I didn't mean that liberal! :) I agree that the ability to totally
change a characters skill set from a mage to a fighter would probably
be undesireable - that would take what, 20 or so skill reimbursements?
Im certainly not looking or hoping for that many - a couple at the most.
Tuesday, May 13 2003, 09:31PM
Just as a note in here -- I think that you folks found out about the
new skills only a few weeks, at most, after they were first being
I try to emphasize this sometimes in Q&A, when people ask what new
stuff is coming in. Right now, the large-scale, much-planned-ahead type
of projects are largely on hold. Smaller-scale projects tend to happen
in a short timeframe, and their priority is based on ideas, inspiration,
sudden blocks of available time, etc.
It's not as if we're all sitting around with stacks of knowledge about
the timeframes of code changes, and just not telling you.
Monday, October 06 2003, 11:09PM
But would it really be so much to ask, to at least let some of us pkers, where stats
wher stats are significantly different in certain areas. Unlike in mobkill
To lets us have the already small chance to tumble it; fine it did alot of damage
damage, maybe we can get a chance to not be sitting for two rounds