Posted by I'e on 01/21
Anyone type clans rp lately?
If it wasn't for my highspeed internet, I bet
I would go link-dead everytime I typed that!
Anyway, my point is... Does clans matter anymore?
Has it become a routine? To have as much inactive alts
as you can on a rp clan?
Why does clans take members in so easily? If your clan
is truely RP.. then shouldn't you have a big quest?
Maybe even tieing in the public? For example, when
someone is Knighted, it is a big thing! The public is
invited and all that...
Maybe we should consider about changing some things that
actually makes being in a clan one of those thing that you
can be proud about?
This would of course required a system where friends,
can shared in housing cost? Maybe that is why there is so
many rp clans? Just a bunch of people like to band
together just so they can split a cost of a castle?
Maybe one day, when friends able to shared costs for housing
without being in a _rp_ clan... We can then look forward
in restricting one player per clan? As in, to join a clan,
you must be PK?
Maybe? One day?... If it will only happen in my dreams...
then please, don't wake me up...
Friday, January 16 2004, 03:00PM
Actually, I removed the idea of friends able
to shared housing costs without being in a clan.
Caused then, there isn't really a unique thing for being
in a clan in the first place?
Best thing I can think of is... remove clans rp?
Anyway.. I guess all I can do is wait for some ideas on this topic
Friday, January 16 2004, 04:01PM
Before there were free-forming clans, you were only able to be in
a clan if you were pkenabled. One further, you weren't even able
to start a new clan without the immorts saying they were taking
applications for them and having to apply. This was something
we no longer wanted to have to deal with so it was put in the
hands of the players. It allows them to make their own as they
see fit. The problem with the number of RP clans currently is
that the monthly purge is not working. I suspect when that does,
there will be a rash of purged characters and lost clans.
Don't, however, expect us to ever go back to having clans for
pk chars alone again. It won't happen. :)
Friday, January 16 2004, 04:37PM
What I'm just trying to get at.. is that there should be
a clear and good reason why someone should want to join a clan.
Either for RP or PK...
This is just on top of my head... and I hope someone else
can give us another good idea...
Maybe a reduction in the xp lost from pk death if you are
currently in a pk clan?
Maybe even replacing the current xp lost from pk death that
you currently have? Say, if you are not in a pk clan,
and you die in pk, either from PKE or PKOK, you will lose
as much as you would from a normal death in mobs killing?
That way, you are in a way, giving people in pk clan
a unique bonus.
What do you think about that?
Friday, January 16 2004, 05:06PM
that would be an arbitrary bonus without any reason
except to "give a bonus" I think that there is already
a social bonus to being in a clan. Though it could be
a lot more "visible" if the community were to spend
more time developing their clan's public face.
As Sandra says when we enable purging again, expect
there to be a pretty big house cleaning.
Friday, January 16 2004, 05:55PM
One advantage of being in a clan is the identity it can bring to
a person, in terms of their RP. If you learn a bit about what
a few clanmates are up to, you can interact with other clanmates
on the same sorts of topics, for example.
Another advantage is access to someone with strong leadership skills,
i.e. your GM -- providing of course you've got a good GM! Having a good
leader to turn to is very useful when you want to make something
happen, or see something change.
Clans give you a channel and clanboards, so you can have discussions
and make plans independently of the group you're in, too.l
We definitely encourage clanning -- but I wonder what sorts of
tools might make it more desireable that don't amount to imms giving
ingame bonuses as bribes :). Clans are good community-builders,
but they're not the only kind, and plenty of community-contributers
are not the clanning type! I wouldn't want to advantage one method
of community-building so far over all the others (i.e. sociability,
listening to others, noticing the needs of others, helping others,
comforting and encouraging others, generally being interactive,
coming up with efforts, initiatives, ideas, and events that bring
people together, etc. etc.)
Ideas welcome -- think broadly!
Friday, January 16 2004, 10:22PM
I REALLY hate the idea of something like reducing the xp loss
by death by joining a clan. For the sole reason that even
though we have a HUGE amount of clans, and I have a fair few
alts, NONE of my chars RP would fit with those clans. What's
the point in joining an RP clan if you're RP is completely
On the PK issue...
PK clans give other unique bonuses (which also happen if you
know lots of peps but its lots easier to organise and peps from
the same clan are more willing to do it). These bonuses include
REVENGE! nuff said on that one. Security, peps might be less
likey to attack you if you're in a clan cause they know that
they'll then have the clan after them. Also knowledge, peps
in your clan are willing to give you valueable knowledge, where
the ingame heals are, where good hiding spots are, no flee rooms
etc etc etc. But as I said most of this you also get if you
know lots of people.
Saturday, January 17 2004, 12:53AM
Here's an idea... right now there is a maximum of what, 20 clans allowed
rp clans even... and what 15 pk clans
Why not reduce the amount of rp clans allowed to like 10 and pk to 10
There is just too many and they're invaluable, I bet if you just completely
took out the clan system 90% of the players would not care.
Another idea would be to reduce housing costs of a clan hall or just
remove it completely. Why not?
I dunno clans are stupid lol, I don't know why I ever joined one to
begin with... RL friends I guess...
Saturday, January 17 2004, 07:20AM
I do like Varnel's idea of reducing the maximum number
of clans. RP or PK.
This hopefully will give people more of a focus when chosing
a clan, not scattering around.
Maybe we will even see a RP-PK tied into it when all the
clans slots are full? I mean, a take over sort of thing?
Saturday, January 17 2004, 01:32PM
By the way, just to comment on RP clans...
Have you guys checked out the news board lately?
This OTS' quest thing is really nice, and I just
want to give a nod to Azenis for trying to blend
their RP with the community as a whole.
Saturday, January 17 2004, 03:08PM
Alright, watching Garet berate I'e for having clans in his title it gave
me an idea for a cool thing to give to people in clans. Maybe in the
who list, before your name it could have a one word title before your
name like for me it would be [Knight] Rictor restoftitle or it could
say [Syndicate] Garet or [Grendel] Mercedes etc. I think that this
would be a nice little thing to give clans and it would clear up any
problems people might have with posing as a clanmember. This would
obviously be for both RP and PK clans. The word in the brackets could
be something the GM would choose and maybe it could even be in color?
Just a thought, lemme know what you think
Sir Rictor Belmont
Saturday, January 17 2004, 03:53PM
Currently there is a limit of 32 clans total. There is no limit as to
how many RP clans or PK clans that can be formed except how it works
out depending on whatever else currently exists.
Saturday, January 17 2004, 04:58PM
I like Rictor's idea about the one word pretitle-like for clan's members.
About Kaige comments about the total limit of 32 clans in total.
Will you guys consider of lowering that? Like I said before, to give
a more focus in clans as a whole?
Sunday, January 18 2004, 05:30PM
Reducing the number of clans total seems a bit odd to me. The reason that has been
has been given is that the clans aren't as active as they could be, and to
give more focus to clans as a whole. Why make the imms set up rules to
make people do what they already should be doing themselves?
People in a clan should be in that clan for a reason. If they are
inactive, never logs on or something like that, it is up to the GM of
that clan to have a talk with them, or to kick them out.
Why have even more rules, especially about things that really
could be easily solved by the characters in any clan?
Sunday, January 18 2004, 09:16PM
Brought up a good point Fraegis, and I agree.
I guess why clans seem to failed, atleast from what
I can see.. is because we don't have well active
GM with good leadership skill.
Monday, January 19 2004, 05:52PM
I definitely think that leadership is key for successful clans -- and
I think that we have great leaders or potential leaders on this mud.
So, what can we do to help those who are trying to be leaders among us?
Encouraging people for their efforts is always a way to contribute -- and
noticing someone making an effort to lead and deciding to follow their
effort is also a good contributtion. But surely there are other ways
and means for us to all help each other...
GM meetings? GM mailing list? GM workshops of some sort? What would
Monday, January 19 2004, 10:48PM
The problem isn't with the clan system, it's with the members of those
clans. I agree that it's largely way too easy to get into a clan.
I also agree there are way too many defunct clans full of inactive
alts. But you can't code that problem away. It requires motivation
and excitement on the part of members to make their clan something
prestigious and sought-after. Instead, lazy players have fallen into
a pattern of seeking code changes to infuse the lackluster energy
level in the playerbase with temporary caffeine-like surges of
There are plenty of things about Legend I feel could be greatly improved
with a new feature here or a rule change there, but this isn't one.
Tuesday, January 20 2004, 01:44PM
What makes me laugh is you people that keep saying leave it alone, people
should/will fix things on their own. Yet I've yet to see that EVER work
for ANYTHING in this game with the possible exception of PK police, though
the imms in charge of pkok would disagree.
I think what you need to consider is that in real life, people do things
for a reason. There are a few, most notibly money and love. However,
what "reason" is there to do anything here? Money is pointless, love is
fleeting as you alt to another character, its a never ending process. As
much as you hate the idea, people aren't going to just "do" what you
seem to think should be done. You either have to code it, or give
incentives. Or take the path you're currently taking and keep letting
them do as they please and letting the place be far less then it
Options are great. Being able to create a clan on the fly, awesome.
But I'd give up all the options and created clans to go back to the
stability and PURPOSE the world used to have before all these damn
things were implemented. I miss clan halls with trans mobs, an
OBVIOUS benefit to clanning, I miss seeing people being assinated
on the info channel, and I miss the rp that used to be everywhere
I understand and agree with you that it shouldn't be on imm shoulders.
However we don't all get what we want. You can, and probably will,
continue to ignore these issues. I however, as hard as it may be
to believe, at least attempt to fix them, including the rp. As
much as I love new code and what not...I miss the atmosphere and
the "meaning" that simply isn't here anymore. I realize its an
incredibly daunting task, and thats probably why players will
never do it...but hey, theres always hope right. It's got us
- David, the player behind numerous alts you all loathe and despise
Tuesday, January 20 2004, 02:47PM
I definitely think we should look in places besides code changes to
bring change to the community. Code and incentives have their place, but
there's a huge amount of space where what happens is 100% controlled by
attitude and social contracts and what people feel motivated to do.
Whether people get helped when they need it or not, whether people learn
to be autonomous or not, whether people contribute to their energy and
ideas to the energy and ideas of others, whether people contribute to
their own fun and other people's fun or just run around being miserable
and making miserable. We can't code community, but we also can't say
Hey, you go make it work out there and go back to whatever we were
What we need is a movement! We seem to be of similar mind about some of
these issues, let's join forces and figure out what kinds of steps we
can take to get others on our side. There's all kinds of things we
could do to raise awareness about the kinds of changes we'd like to
see. Let's keep this conversation going. Spill it all over chat,
take it to heart and start encouraging others to do the same. We can
make things better, or we can let them slide.
What kinds of positive steps could we take?
- if you're in a clan, organize an event, a tournament, a reception,
a game, anything like that which the clan can work on as a group
and develop some identity, plus have lots of fun.
- if you're into PK, do something to make an RP enemy. Steal a kiss
from a girlfriend, swipe their whozit of power, spread rumors about
their secrets. Or if you're just TOO nice for that, set yourself
up to be a victim. Obtain a whozit of power and be ever so devastated
if it was lost. Develop a secret vice that you'll deny. Decide
how you might open yourself up to interactions, and seek out a
partner or three.
- articles, discussions, posts, conversations. Talk to new people,
talk to someone who has been here for ages but you don't know.
Keep an eye out for missed opportunities and people turning
Legend away from the way you think it should go, and talk with
them about it. Get excited and involved when people are doing
What other things could we do?