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Not renting out spell effects|U6

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Posted by Allegory on 04/02

The inability to rent spell The inability to rent out spell effects is going to make pkill even more unbalanced, i'm afraid. right now, it's all but impossible to be a successful pkiller without cause magic of some sort. if we can't rent out spell effects, how are the rest of us pkillers supposed to compete?! honestly, it's ridiculous the way it is already. i know pkillers who have given up on their chars simply because they NEED magic sink to survive. sink to survive. now, magic sink will be more important than ever. sure, str fighters can still disorient, but what about snipers (like myself)? i don't have any skill that causes an effect to linger. snipers are already nearly useless in pk (everyone has recommended that i just give up). it will simply be worse without being able to rent out blind, and other spells. spells. thoughts? |U6

From: Guilhem Tuesday, February 17 2004, 05:10AM Hi there! I fully agree (see my post #17 on news board). I'dd add that it's not just unfair for pkillers. Standard players who fight mobs who cast poison or so will need proper chars to cure them. And for players like me who live in Europe, I often log during nightime US, and there are not so many chars on. So being permanently affected by handicaping spells will also kill the fun for some players (like me not being able to go ooc while affected by long lasting fly, and didn't have time to stay on). What i fear is that they will keep this system, and modifying spell effects, which would be a catastroph! Guilhem de le de Lecoque!! :D (damn can't remove that broad smile!) |U6

From: Chocorua Tuesday, February 17 2004, 07:28AM I know y'all hate this response but have any of you looked around for other ways to remove these negative spell effects? I'm fairly sure the building department spent many hours reviewing the types of affects and how it would be best to help players get them removed. So to give themost unpopular answer .. explore and get to know your world. You might be amazed at what is out there. Chocorua |U6

From: Sandra Tuesday, February 17 2004, 07:36AM I know that it's a new, and

From: really

From: freaky thing. But there are quite a few ways to get rid of spell affects that were put in well before we put the code in. If you feel the need for more, or think some place should have something that doesn't, please put that on the idea channel so that we can look into it. There are also ways for snipers(bow using) to use affects, as most people are already aware. Give it some time, look around for the mobs and objects that cure affects, and adjust some tactics a bit. Then go from that. -Sandra |U6

From: Kae Tuesday, February 17 2004, 08:03AM I was going to say, many many many ways to get rid of affects. If you have one you can't seem to find a removal method for, feel very free to suggest one! |U6

From: YamaRaja Tuesday, February 17 2004, 05:05PM hehe, like i said earlier on some other news post. I love it when the gods install a new change! Its fun and people have to work just a little extra hard to find their way around. Yes as far as i know, there are more than 3 ways to get rid of the spell effects, those pkillers just need to get access to the anti-spell device, and non pkillers, well you need that too if you wanna go ooc :) but one quick suggestion, we should have more boards at the innkeeper, so people dont have to go ooc in order to read stuff. I understand you can already buy some boards for your own house, but the idea of reading the boards for free, ic, is still a cool thing :) btw, great games of those party hats! (i loved the crusing around even though I didnt find any, gives me another reason to travel around) so oh here is another thought, maybe we can do the party hat (or some other LoPs) more often, have them give random items when their were killed, say once a week or once a month type of thing? that would be coooooooooooooooooooooool thanks legendmud :) YamaRaja |U6

From: Archaon Wednesday, February 18 2004, 05:54AM only way i can think of to remove effects (without bothering another player or casting or brewing, as i can't do either) are trying to find a dispel vial, or getting the herb to get one made (which is a BIG hastle), and maybe a scroll of some kind (which again I don't know). I don't know of any mob or quest that removes any spell effects, but i know lots that GIVE effects :P Oh and about fighers being able to disorent, that is SUCH a lie. It's like wrestle being able to knock unconcious, or KO with choke or stun with sucker punch. It is so VERY unlikely that recently I have NEVER seen it, well except when trying to kill the catcher in pitts who ALWAYS happens to land a disorient first time EVERY time. But I have NEVER seen wrestle KO (and i use wrestle quite a bit), and havent seen elbow disorient in i dunno how long, at least 6 months... Also to my knowledge there isn't a removal for that, and if dispel magic removes that effect that would make it even more stupid. Oh and sandra, not all snipers use bows, and even the ones that do cant shoot that bow at themselfs last i checked. So how would they get access to different spell removal effects? - Arch |U6

From: Sandra Wednesday, February 18 2004, 06:20AM Obviously(or apparently not obvious to you), I wasn't talking about bow users shooting themselves with spells. Let's use a little common sense, eh. Disorient isn't a spell affect like blind, or weaken, or even poison. It's a state. It won't be removed by dispel. Elbow DOES work well for disorienting. I use it, I've had it used against me, as have others I've been grouped with. |U6

From: Drakkon Wednesday, February 18 2004, 06:23PM firstly, disorient isn't impossible to land ;) if you ever use it you find it works actually half decently... and secondly I would like to suggest a mob that heals ailments such as poison blind... maybe not dispelling idiocy etc but poison and blind for a fee would be nice :) just my thoughts -Drakkon |U6

From: Mordred Wednesday, February 18 2004, 08:53PM Actually, I like the idea of not being able to rent off the effects with ONE exception...newbies. No move, little resources, and if a true newbie, no friends.... Just my 2 cents...Mordred's player |U6

From: Cheyla Wednesday, February 18 2004, 09:17PM Lots of different things can be removed for a price... So get out there and find em :) |U6

From: Jhakar Wednesday, February 18 2004, 09:21PM maybe make ill-effects like poison/blind NOT effect lvls < 5 |U6

From: Kae Wednesday, February 18 2004, 10:34PM Not having a clue as to whether this would be a useful idea or not -- but it would probably be wiser to let the effects rent off for people under level 5 if anything. |U6

From: Chocorua Thursday, February 19 2004, 07:34AM I see the point about low level chars not being able to go as far as the rest for these cures. One thing to keep in mind is that the mobs you are encountering at these levels don't tend to blind or poison nearly as frequently as the mobs designed to make life more difficult for the seasoned character. yes I know there are some cases that a low level char could get affected by these things and that is part of exploring and venturing out into the unknown. Chocorua |U6

From: Dolor Thursday, February 19 2004, 10:31AM Two words: Druid's well. Poor newbies. -Dolor |U6

From: Valis Thursday, February 19 2004, 10:49AM So they die? Whoppie. At low level dieing isn't that huge of a deal. Though I find it rather annoying. I like the change. If anything renting spell effects was an exploitable bug. -Valis |U6

From: Dharma Thursday, February 19 2004, 03:48PM The only problem I see, is these newbies paying 'the price of exploring' 9 times out of 10 will choose not to pay that price and just drop link and we never see them again. Well, thats fine if you don't want the game to grow, but if you want to coddle the real new players a bit more which wouldnt be that much of a problem lets be honest, we could allow them to rent it off til level 5 or something. Dharma |U6

From: Duram Thursday, February 19 2004, 04:07PM Just make a certain laboratory door unlocked all the time with a few more certain items in it and that will help some. You can also make some of the other druids in the compound help out. And players can also explain to newbs how to go about getting rid of the poison. |U6

From: Slump Thursday, February 19 2004, 04:48PM If I may...I was wandering around the dun trying to poke things with my kitchen knife when I remembered a certain cool newbie dagger in a chest and thought it might be a good idea to try to upgrade my weapon some only the chest was locked. So I learn pick lock and I come back and try it...I fail...and I get stung, brought to 1 hp and die of poison 2 seconds later..this was just bad luck and timing on my part I guess, but it really follows a recent trend here of making things harder and harder for true newbies, or those trying to do things for themselves. I would suggest next time you wanted to limit something like this why not just make the item unsellable so nobody wants it and it would be available to those who need it, not those who need a fast 2k or so. |U6

From: Somar Thursday, February 19 2004, 05:06PM My two cents worth on this subject: I agree that there are many ways throughout the mud to remove negative spell effects. However, the cost of doing so can be very prohibitive. Consider this: Even with a low amount of mana for a 2c cause mage, he can probably cast blind about 15-16 times on a full load of mana. A mage with more mana, of course, could cast it quite a bit more. A deadeye with blinding arrows can probably 'cast' blind at least 20 with a fully loaded and tainted quiver of arrows. The pure fighter in this situation gets heavily overshadowed, because even if he/she does have enough rent to store that many items to clear the effect, the relevant item is in a short enough supply where it would take ages to restock. It just seems like it's a little unfair as to how often and how much the spell effect can be inflicted on a fighter, with no recourse to renting off the spell effect. I think at least to balance out the deadeye aspect a bit, there should be a percentage chance of the spell effect going off, just like with weapons. It seems silly that the effect happens not only instantly, but 100% of the times when the arrow hits, which is pretty close to 100% itself for a high perc shooter. Maybe a resist blind item would also be nice, besides a certain one that provides huge shortcomings in other areas. (I'm trying carefully to avoid giving too much item information in a public forum here!) Just some thoughts on the subject, and I'm sure, over time, things will be balanced enough to try to provide a fair chance for all. Somar |U6

From: Shadamehr Thursday, February 19 2004, 09:41PM I think Somar hit that nail right on the head. This is why we see 75% Mages in PKE and not too many pure fighters anymore. An idea i had was maybe make it so when you lets say cure blind. It would last for a few ticks. Maybe this way insted of mages casting blind over and over they will have to resort to other tactics. |U6

From: Archaon Friday, February 20 2004, 12:42AM Oh and in MY experience with ALL my hitters (which tend to have 90+ str, high dex, con etc) elbow hasn't worked that often, okay its worked more than KO with choke, which in turn has worked more than the unconcious of wrestle (which I have yet to see happen) But it doesn't address the problem of certian mobs having the effect go off ALL the time they use the skill.

From: grumble

From: shouldn't they have the same % chance of success as everyone else? As for fighters being gimped, I think I'll have to agree on that even though I don't do much anymore. Oh and Sandra I was pointing out that you couldnt REMOVE effects to yourself with a bow, not apply them. We aren't talking about who should apply the effects, but how we take them off. Perhaps to balance it a bit have an increase in resistance to assorted spell type things (eg, poison, blind) with the Iron Will skill. Surely that would work? "My will is so strong that I will fight this poison away with shear force of WILL!" Also if not already perhaps have a bonus resistance to high spi and to a lesser degree (whether smaller resistance or to fewer effects) con. As for the newbie side of things... Some newbie asked me in a tell the other day if they could rent off bleeding. I don't know what level they were, but as a new char

From: I

From: find that I can find lots of assorted things that make me bleed. Yes there is the bandage skill, but newbies won't know much if anything about that. Course these permanant effects just make people fouling wells just that bit more annoying, ESPICIALLY when its the cup at well o trust. But that gives a reason for purify, a skill that was previously useless. Of course, hardly anyone KNOWS purify, but that just promotes player interaction. Oh wait, that doesn't really work when you log on and there are only 5 people online all doing their own thing, not paying attention to anything, or even if they were, don't want to alt or don't have an alt with that certian skill. So I guess I should just change countries eh? In short, while it has it's percs, I think some things mainly the PK side AND the newbie side need ironing out. Cause I know if I tried to PK without a mage now I'd just die, not being able to rent any form of vials, and even if I could I wouldn't be able to rent the amount required (3 or 4, thats 2k rent that could be spent better elsewhere). Hey thats the longest thing I've written on a board! Arch |U6

From: Allegory Friday, February 20 2004, 01:46AM Somar really hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned. So did Shadamehr in pointing out that about 75% of pkillers (and almost all all the experienced ones) are mages, particularly cause. Yes, there are ways to cure blind, for example, but there is just no way to counteract someone who does it time after time after time. I've had to fight create mages before where they just sit there and keep casting blinding flash every time i enter the room, or cause mages who spam blind over and over. renting out spell affects was the only way to really balance out the advantage that mages got in pkill (and that doesn't even include things like cure critical and prep spells, which you could still use mana on). My concern is really only for pkill. There's got to be some way to balance that stuff out cause mages were already the most powerful class now they're even more powerful. |U6

From: Fortebraccio Friday, February 20 2004, 03:12PM Uhm..if is gonna be to be unbalanced for pkill...there is one easy way, make blind last one tick only. I'm not suggesting that before actually trying if the balance is really so off. Personally I have never been much to bothered from blind with fighters. Spamming skills always worked out fine. |U6

From: Allegory Friday, February 20 2004, 03:49PM with mages, you can probably spam a skill and hit them before they blind you. but it's tougher with an archer who sits in the next room where you can't reach him or her... |U6

From: Archibald Sunday, February 22 2004, 05:52PM My take on spell effect renting is this... If you were diseased, blind, poisoned, or otherwise debilitated in the real world you wouldnt just go sleep it off, you would die of the disease or wake up as blind as you were, or die of the poison. So from a real world perspective it makes a lot of sense to not just go to sleep and be fine, even though the nap was a 2 second one. But I can see the hassle of OOC issues being a problem, long lasting self cast spells like sustained breath and fly are just a pain, carrying vials for PK is one thing, carrying them so you can go OOC when you need to is just a hassle. The only solution to that though is to make the duration a lot shorter, or to make them toggleable somehow, which also from a historical fantasy stance much like the 'in the real world' point, most spells cast by wizards upon themselves can be cancelled by thought, word, or gesture. Imagine if you will a wizard casts a spell to look like a beggar, walks in to court and makes a huge speech, then to capitalise his drama decides to reveal himself as the penultimate archmage he is, but LO! he cannot for he is playing Legend. Hehehehe, ok i know random dribble, its just that kinda day... Uhhh yeah so newbies are gonna hurt so the not affecting under lvl 5 thing is great, but also something needs done with long duration spells. Archie. |U6

From: Jhakar Tuesday, February 24 2004, 08:26AM all the major mmorpgs let a player cancel "positive" spells, i.e. buffs with with a simple mouse click. there is no reason, besides the huge coding it would require, why we couldn't have this here. or you could change the OOC rules, i mean okay, you can go out-of-char with str/bless/armor/sink/etc etc, but not with fly/wings/sustain_breath. not logical. as for the blind in pk, what about after you have been blinded you get an "immunity" timer for say 2 ticks from being blinded again -- we do this already for backstab and other special combat init skills... and just to touch on being poisoned, except for LOPs with poisoned weapons i don't know many high level mobs that poison, but lots of low level snakes sure do... |U6

From: LadyAce Tuesday, March 02 2004, 01:53PM A thought about newbies & renting off affs -- many's the time that I've seen people ask on chat what to do when poisoned, and the response is usually "go rent it off". Usually the newbie is confused, sometimes they figure it out, sometimes not. But the point is, if instead of chatting "go rent it off" you sent them a tell "go talk to <> in <> and they'll help!" or stay right there, I'll be there in 5 minutes to show you what to do or you might not survive the poison if you're already at 1 hp -- but you won't lose very much xp, and you can get your stuff again, don't worry. In future, buy a <> and try not to eat strange plants in the forest!" Lots of options! Newbies didn't know the "go rent" thing unless people told them, after all :). Remember, only YOU can prevent Stagmonsters! -LA |U6

From: Jhakar Thursday, March 04 2004, 02:30PM are you saying that there's a cure poison and bleeding mob in every newbi starting town, and i haven't found them yet. okay, that's fair to me. |U6

From: Varnel Friday, March 05 2004, 09:33AM As far as I know, there is no mob in any location that cures poison LA and for the OOC with spell affects thing, why can't you go ooc with spell effects on again? I mean you can rent out and they still stay so there is no real point to make a player not be able to go ooc without dispelling his spells... plus pk timers prevent us from going ooc anyway wasn't it designed around pk regardless? anyway just my 2 thoughts or 3? I forget -Varnel |U6

From: Kae Friday, March 05 2004, 10:08AM There is one or more mobs that cure poison. |U6

From: Varnel Friday, March 05 2004, 12:24PM You try teaching a newbie how to get there and back easily, then send me a tell... hell teach me because I don't know where they are |U6

From: Sandra Friday, March 05 2004, 04:22PM There are plenty of mobs that cure poison and most are easily accessable, specifically for newbies. Look around, they're right under your nose most likely. ;) |U6

From: Plowboy Friday, April 02 2004, 11:23PM |U6


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