The inability to rent spell
The inability to rent out spell effects is going
to make pkill even more unbalanced, i'm afraid.
right now, it's all but impossible to be a
successful pkiller without cause magic of some sort.
if we can't rent out spell effects, how are
the rest of us pkillers supposed to compete?!
honestly, it's ridiculous the way it is already. i know
pkillers who have given up on their chars simply because they NEED magic sink to survive.
sink to survive. now, magic sink will be
more important than ever.
sure, str fighters can still disorient, but what
about snipers (like myself)? i don't have
any skill that causes an effect to linger. snipers are already nearly
useless in pk (everyone has recommended that i just give up).
it will simply be worse without being able to rent out blind, and other spells.
Tuesday, February 17 2004, 05:10AM
I fully agree (see my post #17 on news board). I'dd add
that it's not just unfair for pkillers. Standard players who
fight mobs who cast poison or so will need proper chars to cure
them. And for players like me who live in Europe, I often log
during nightime US, and there are not so many chars on. So
being permanently affected by handicaping spells will also kill
the fun for some players (like me not being able to go ooc while
affected by long lasting fly, and didn't have time to stay on).
What i fear is that they will keep this system, and modifying spell
effects, which would be a catastroph!
Guilhem de le de Lecoque!! :D (damn can't remove that broad smile!)
Tuesday, February 17 2004, 07:28AM
I know y'all hate this response but have any of you
looked around for other ways to remove these negative
spell effects? I'm fairly sure the building department
spent many hours reviewing the types of affects and
how it would be best to help players get them removed.
So to give themost unpopular answer .. explore and get
to know your world. You might be amazed at what is out
Tuesday, February 17 2004, 07:36AM
I know that it's a new, and
From: freaky thing. But there are
quite a few ways to get rid of spell affects that were put in
well before we put the code in. If you feel the need for more,
or think some place should have something that doesn't, please
put that on the idea channel so that we can look into it.
There are also ways for snipers(bow using) to use affects,
as most people are already aware.
Give it some time, look around for the mobs and objects that
cure affects, and adjust some tactics a bit. Then go from
Tuesday, February 17 2004, 08:03AM
I was going to say, many many many ways to get rid of affects.
If you have one you can't seem to find a removal method for,
feel very free to suggest one!
Tuesday, February 17 2004, 05:05PM
hehe, like i said earlier on some other news post.
I love it when the gods install a new change! Its fun
and people have to work just a little extra hard to
find their way around. Yes as far as i know, there are
more than 3 ways to get rid of the spell effects, those
pkillers just need to get access to the anti-spell
device, and non pkillers, well you need that too if
you wanna go ooc :)
but one quick suggestion, we should have more boards
at the innkeeper, so people dont have to go ooc in
order to read stuff. I understand you can already
buy some boards for your own house, but the idea
of reading the boards for free, ic, is still a cool
btw, great games of those party hats! (i loved the
crusing around even though I didnt find any, gives
me another reason to travel around) so oh here is
another thought, maybe we can do the party hat (or some
other LoPs) more often, have them give random items
when their were killed, say once a week or once a month
type of thing? that would be coooooooooooooooooooooool
thanks legendmud :)
Wednesday, February 18 2004, 05:54AM
only way i can think of to remove effects (without bothering
another player or casting or brewing, as i can't do either)
are trying to find a dispel vial, or getting the herb to get
one made (which is a BIG hastle), and maybe a scroll of some kind
(which again I don't know). I don't know of any mob or quest that
removes any spell effects, but i know lots that GIVE effects :P
Oh and about fighers being able to disorent, that is SUCH a lie.
It's like wrestle being able to knock unconcious, or KO with choke
or stun with sucker punch. It is so VERY unlikely that recently I
have NEVER seen it, well except when trying to kill the catcher in pitts
who ALWAYS happens to land a disorient first time EVERY time.
But I have NEVER seen wrestle KO (and i use wrestle quite a bit), and
havent seen elbow disorient in i dunno how long, at least 6 months...
Also to my knowledge there isn't a removal for that, and if dispel
magic removes that effect that would make it even more stupid.
Oh and sandra, not all snipers use bows, and even the ones that do
cant shoot that bow at themselfs last i checked. So how would they get
access to different spell removal effects?
Wednesday, February 18 2004, 06:20AM
Obviously(or apparently not obvious to you), I wasn't talking
about bow users shooting themselves with spells. Let's use a little
common sense, eh.
Disorient isn't a spell affect like blind, or weaken, or even poison.
It's a state. It won't be removed by dispel. Elbow DOES work well
for disorienting. I use it, I've had it used against me, as have
others I've been grouped with.
Wednesday, February 18 2004, 06:23PM
firstly, disorient isn't impossible to land ;) if you ever use it
you find it works actually half decently... and secondly I would like
to suggest a mob that heals ailments such as poison blind... maybe not
dispelling idiocy etc but poison and blind for a fee would be nice :)
just my thoughts
Wednesday, February 18 2004, 08:53PM
Actually, I like the idea of not being able to rent off
the effects with ONE exception...newbies. No move,
little resources, and if a true newbie, no friends....
Just my 2 cents...Mordred's player
Wednesday, February 18 2004, 09:17PM
Lots of different things can be removed for a price... So
get out there and find em :)
Wednesday, February 18 2004, 09:21PM
maybe make ill-effects like poison/blind NOT effect lvls < 5
Wednesday, February 18 2004, 10:34PM
Not having a clue as to whether this would be a useful idea
or not -- but it would probably be wiser to let the effects
rent off for people under level 5 if anything.
Thursday, February 19 2004, 07:34AM
I see the point about low level chars not being able
to go as far as the rest for these cures. One thing to
keep in mind is that the mobs you are encountering
at these levels don't tend to blind or poison
nearly as frequently as the mobs designed to make life
more difficult for the seasoned character.
yes I know there are some cases that a low level
char could get affected by these things and that is
part of exploring and venturing out into the unknown.
Thursday, February 19 2004, 10:31AM
Two words: Druid's well.
Thursday, February 19 2004, 10:49AM
So they die? Whoppie. At low level dieing isn't that huge of a deal.
Though I find it rather annoying. I like the change. If anything renting
spell effects was an exploitable bug.
Thursday, February 19 2004, 03:48PM
The only problem I see, is these newbies paying 'the price of exploring'
9 times out of 10 will choose not to pay that price and just drop link
and we never see them again. Well, thats fine if you don't want the game
to grow, but if you want to coddle the real new players a bit more
which wouldnt be that much of a problem lets be honest, we could allow
them to rent it off til level 5 or something.
Thursday, February 19 2004, 04:07PM
Just make a certain laboratory door unlocked all the time with
a few more certain items in it and that will help some. You
can also make some of the other druids in the compound help out.
And players can also explain to newbs how to go about getting
rid of the poison.
Thursday, February 19 2004, 04:48PM
If I may...I was wandering around the dun trying to poke things with
my kitchen knife when I remembered a certain cool newbie dagger
in a chest and thought it might be a good idea to try to upgrade
my weapon some only the chest was locked. So I learn pick lock and I
come back and try it...I fail...and I get stung, brought to 1 hp
and die of poison 2 seconds later..this was just bad luck and
timing on my part I guess, but it really follows a recent trend here
of making things harder and harder for true newbies, or those trying
to do things for themselves.
I would suggest next time you wanted to limit something like this
why not just make the item unsellable so nobody wants it and it would
be available to those who need it, not those who need a fast 2k or so.
Thursday, February 19 2004, 05:06PM
My two cents worth on this subject:
I agree that there are many ways throughout the mud to remove
negative spell effects. However, the cost of doing so can
be very prohibitive.
Consider this: Even with a low amount of mana for a 2c cause mage,
he can probably cast blind about 15-16 times on a full load of mana.
A mage with more mana, of course, could cast it quite a bit more.
A deadeye with blinding arrows can probably 'cast' blind at least
20 with a fully loaded and tainted quiver of arrows. The pure
fighter in this situation gets heavily overshadowed, because
even if he/she does have enough rent to store that many items
to clear the effect, the relevant item is in a short enough
supply where it would take ages to restock. It just seems like
it's a little unfair as to how often and how much the spell
effect can be inflicted on a fighter, with no recourse to
renting off the spell effect. I think at least to balance out
the deadeye aspect a bit, there should be a percentage chance
of the spell effect going off, just like with weapons. It
seems silly that the effect happens not only instantly, but
100% of the times when the arrow hits, which is pretty close
to 100% itself for a high perc shooter. Maybe a resist blind
item would also be nice, besides a certain one that provides
huge shortcomings in other areas. (I'm trying carefully to
avoid giving too much item information in a public forum here!)
Just some thoughts on the subject, and I'm sure, over time,
things will be balanced enough to try to provide a fair
chance for all.
Thursday, February 19 2004, 09:41PM
I think Somar hit that nail right on the head.
This is why we see 75% Mages in PKE and not too many pure fighters anymore.
An idea i had was maybe make it so when you lets say cure blind.
It would last for a few ticks.
Maybe this way insted of mages casting blind over and over
they will have to resort to other tactics.
Friday, February 20 2004, 12:42AM
Oh and in MY experience with ALL my hitters (which tend to have
90+ str, high dex, con etc) elbow hasn't worked that often, okay
its worked more than KO with choke, which in turn has worked more
than the unconcious of wrestle (which I have yet to see happen)
But it doesn't address the problem of certian mobs having the effect
go off ALL the time they use the skill.
From: shouldn't they have
the same % chance of success as everyone else?
As for fighters being gimped, I think I'll have to agree on that
even though I don't do much anymore. Oh and Sandra I was pointing out
that you couldnt REMOVE effects to yourself with a bow, not apply
them. We aren't talking about who should apply the effects, but
how we take them off.
Perhaps to balance it a bit have an increase in resistance to
assorted spell type things (eg, poison, blind) with the Iron Will
skill. Surely that would work? "My will is so strong that I will
fight this poison away with shear force of WILL!"
Also if not already perhaps have a bonus resistance to high
spi and to a lesser degree (whether smaller resistance or to
fewer effects) con.
As for the newbie side of things...
Some newbie asked me in a tell the other day if they could rent
off bleeding. I don't know what level they were, but as a new
From: find that I can find lots of assorted things that make
me bleed. Yes there is the bandage skill, but newbies won't know
much if anything about that.
Course these permanant effects just make people fouling wells
just that bit more annoying, ESPICIALLY when its the cup at
well o trust. But that gives a reason for purify, a skill that
was previously useless. Of course, hardly anyone KNOWS purify,
but that just promotes player interaction. Oh wait, that doesn't
really work when you log on and there are only 5 people online
all doing their own thing, not paying attention to anything, or
even if they were, don't want to alt or don't have an alt with that
certian skill. So I guess I should just change countries eh?
In short, while it has it's percs, I think some things mainly
the PK side AND the newbie side need ironing out. Cause I know
if I tried to PK without a mage now I'd just die, not being
able to rent any form of vials, and even if I could I wouldn't
be able to rent the amount required (3 or 4, thats 2k rent that
could be spent better elsewhere).
Hey thats the longest thing I've written on a board!
Friday, February 20 2004, 01:46AM
Somar really hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned.
So did Shadamehr in pointing out that about 75% of pkillers (and almost all
all the experienced ones) are mages, particularly cause.
Yes, there are ways to cure blind, for example, but there is just no way
to counteract someone who does it time after time after time. I've
had to fight create mages before where they just sit there and keep casting
blinding flash every time i enter the room, or cause mages who spam blind
over and over. renting out spell affects was the only way to really
balance out the advantage that mages got in pkill (and that doesn't even
include things like cure critical and prep spells, which you could
still use mana on).
My concern is really only for pkill. There's got to be some way
to balance that stuff out
cause mages were already the most powerful
now they're even more powerful.
Friday, February 20 2004, 03:12PM
Uhm..if is gonna be to be unbalanced for pkill...there is one easy
way, make blind last one tick only. I'm not suggesting that before
actually trying if the balance is really so off. Personally I
have never been much to bothered from blind with fighters.
Spamming skills always worked out fine.
Friday, February 20 2004, 03:49PM
with mages, you can probably spam a skill and hit them before
they blind you. but it's tougher with an
archer who sits in the next room where
you can't reach him or her...
Sunday, February 22 2004, 05:52PM
My take on spell effect renting is this...
If you were diseased, blind, poisoned, or otherwise debilitated in the
real world you wouldnt just go sleep it off, you would die of the disease
or wake up as blind as you were, or die of the poison.
So from a real world perspective it makes a lot of sense to not just go
to sleep and be fine, even though the nap was a 2 second one.
But I can see the hassle of OOC issues being a problem, long lasting self
cast spells like sustained breath and fly are just a pain, carrying vials
for PK is one thing, carrying them so you can go OOC when you need to is
just a hassle.
The only solution to that though is to make the duration a lot shorter, or
to make them toggleable somehow, which also from a historical fantasy
stance much like the 'in the real world' point, most spells cast by
wizards upon themselves can be cancelled by thought, word, or gesture.
Imagine if you will a wizard casts a spell to look like a beggar, walks in
to court and makes a huge speech, then to capitalise his drama decides to
reveal himself as the penultimate archmage he is, but LO! he cannot for
he is playing Legend.
Hehehehe, ok i know random dribble, its just that kinda day...
Uhhh yeah so newbies are gonna hurt so the not affecting under lvl 5 thing
is great, but also something needs done with long duration spells.
Tuesday, February 24 2004, 08:26AM
all the major mmorpgs let a player cancel "positive" spells, i.e. buffs with
with a simple mouse click. there is no reason, besides the huge coding
it would require, why we couldn't have this here. or you could change the
OOC rules, i mean okay, you can go out-of-char with str/bless/armor/sink/etc
etc, but not with fly/wings/sustain_breath. not logical.
as for the blind in pk, what about after you have been blinded you get an
"immunity" timer for say 2 ticks from being blinded again -- we do this
already for backstab and other special combat init skills...
and just to touch on being poisoned, except for LOPs with poisoned weapons
i don't know many high level mobs that poison, but lots of low level snakes
Tuesday, March 02 2004, 01:53PM
A thought about newbies & renting off affs -- many's the time that
I've seen people ask on chat what to do when poisoned, and the
response is usually "go rent it off". Usually the newbie is confused,
sometimes they figure it out, sometimes not. But the point is, if
instead of chatting "go rent it off" you sent them a tell "go
talk to <> in <> and they'll help!" or
stay right there, I'll be there in 5 minutes to show you what to
do or you might not survive the poison if you're already at 1 hp --
but you won't lose very much xp, and you can get your stuff again,
don't worry. In future, buy a <