Discussion Index


1996 Topic Archives

Posted by Bulk on 11/12/96

After being blinded, i ran mindlessly, only to notice that wherever i went, somebody could follow and shoot you, without giving me the ability to even crash or rush to the assailant. I dont mind not rushing to the room where the opponent shot from while i can see, but i think, if you cant see which way you fled cuz you 'panicked,' you should be 'panicky' enough to rush the assailant when you are blind, or at least give the players an option to turn such a feature on or off, depending on the players preferences. Mobs even backstab while they are blind, not to mention their ability to hunt you down while you are blind *cough* dhurtah *cough*. I think it is only fair for the handicapped players to at least choose whether they would want to rush an assailant when they get shot, even if such options only applied when you were blind. Nothing, i guess, is more frustrating then running around in an unfamiliar territory, unable to touch the assailant (since somehow shooting does not initiate combat, i dont think, for some reason...i could 'see' they reloaded their weapon and shot afterwards, but i am not sure if he/she went to the next room and did so..something tells me that he/she didnt, but hey, i was blind) I mean, if that is the case, lemme warcry and not initiate combat til i get a paralyzing one or something.

Bulk...just hates it when he is not even given a fighting chance.


From: Bulk Saturday, October 05, 06:44PM

forgot to mention...does 'follow' break when the shooter shoots the guy that's being followed? or like shooting, it doesn' t break it like all other forms of initiating combat?

From: Lethargio Sunday, October 06, 07:39AM

I think that blind is too powerful in a sence, because it disenables a person not to use many skills there should be a backlash for blind, or at least a low accuracy for working, because a mage would figure, "hey, what the hell, its not going to hurt trying" and yes, I think there should be a way to rush towards the person who shoots you

From: Bulk Sunday, October 06, 12:41PM

ooh. totally forgot about 'power' of skills. ok.

Kick--fail or no fail, no setback, a nothing-to-lose skill every single spell other than stun (:P)--fail, little loss of mana, success, well, hey, lotsa advantage there...and, unlike other skills (hopefully fixed with the skill trees) this one at least gets better every lvl. shooting--fail? oh wow jammed gun. gee. just shoot again. success? heck, anything from a snipe to lotsa damage...489 (or 474) hps with sanc can only last 25 bullets or so. *sniff*.

From: Gail Sunday, October 06, 02:54PM

you forgot "gun blows up".

From: Bulk Sunday, October 06, 10:58PM

we should make it..uhm. you fumble in panic and shoot yerself in the head! ;)

From: Lethargio Monday, October 07, 11:14PM

of course you forget that blinding someone inhibits them from using a gun

Lethargio, the misspeller

From: Mystbane Tuesday, October 08, 12:05AM

uhm. Bulk is talking about shooting not having side effects..i personally havent seen a blinder-shooter yet (thanks to the scarcity of those darn blinding wormies).


Btw, it is blinding someBODY, if you are interested in correcting 'spelling'

From: Morphine Tuesday, October 08, 01:51PM

Personally, I can understand rushing to attack someone if they backstab/kick/whatever, but if you're blind, with a bullet at least, it would be a lot harder to tell where it came from (If they're stabbing/clubbing/whatever you, you can at least have a general idea where it's coming from), but with a bullet, what ca you do?

Although the rushing with a bullet thing is an ok idea, or at least making you stop following them, the rushing can be at times less realistic then the alternative of dying (even though i've mentioned before that this mud is fun sometimes because it's NOT realistic, wouldn't be much without magic and the like) ;)


From: Mystbane Tuesday, October 08, 02:06PM

You are blind, but you aint deaf...what's so hard about rushing to the gunshot? I know it should break off follow, at least, and maybe using this we could have a semi-renty silencer available for most guns that will prevent rushing, perhaps. But as of now, i see no reason why the guy that was shot can not rush to the person, and think it should be an option available to players whether they'd prefer rushing or not..like a toggle switch.


From: Lethargio Friday, October 11, 11:00PM

well, all i wanted to say was that if a mage blinds a sniper, then it takes away the ability of a a sniper to be...well...a sniper.

mages has stun, wither, recall all these stuff that a londoner can't have, since attacking magics only link to damage i understand that, but i think blind should have a concequence when it fails

you know, just so that a sniper would have at least some chance against blinding attacks because all a sniper can do when blinded is kick/bash/headbutt, or just flee around to the nearest inn

From: Mystbane Friday, October 11, 11:55PM

Mages are too powerful, and should be so given the effort they have supposedly put in while building their character. But I do think there should be more items out there to balance things out, maybe sunglasses that will prevent blinding (or at least have a chance to) a sanc ring that only reduces magic-related attacks, guns that could be loaded with tranquilizers, etc.

I am starting to wonder if guns/bows are, like light sources, not allowed to have any stat bonuses, which i guess could make sense..


From: Sandra Saturday, October 12, 06:00AM

While I do agree that blind is a powerful spell, I'd have to disagree with saying that mages are more powerful. They have yet to gain any spell that ID's a player/mob AND gets xp for it. All of their spells have to be cast in the same room, and with the lower perc less of their attacks hit.

From: Mystbane Saturday, October 12, 06:19AM

Mages never fail a spell once they have accumulated enough lvls in it, unless we are talking stat-comparison spells such as stun. With the abundance of low-mind high-xp mobs, you could have minimum perc for words and still land all hits, in perfect safety. When talking ID, at least snipers have to sacrifice a hand slot as well as weight/rent for bullets, and since bullets dont naturally replenish themselves like mana, it is something that seems feasible...and last i remember, etherial void also has a chance to ID mobs (maybe not, but think that's what the help file said). True that all of their spells have to be cast in the same room, and i think that's something that could be added for mages, for certain spells and by upping mana cost if directed at somebody next room.

From: Lethargio Saturday, October 12, 07:19PM

I think that mages are powerful, but not so powerful that its unbalanced. the only thing is that mages has blind, with no backlash, or stat-comparison or anything that would disadvantage the caster, so thats creating the unbalanced also, theres no way to prevent blind either

Lethargio, I just countered my own point in paragragh 1, the journeyman

From: Ptah Saturday, October 12, 11:53PM

"Mages' spells never fail once they have accumulated enough levels"... The most a given spell can reach in success rate is 99%, and that is only ifyou have known it since level 2. Base success is 50%, and you get 1% more per level.

That means that 3rd circle spells, which you cannot learn until level 25, max out at 75% success rate.


From: Mystbane Sunday, October 13, 01:22AM

75% is darn good compared to 1/8 in paralyzing bs with 100 perc (something around there, i imagine) and ??% in getting a paralyzing/panic inducing, or raging warcry. Besides, most of the mage spells go through no stat-comparison.

From: Beam Sunday, October 13, 01:21AM

I think some valid points were made and not really addressed. Blind is a second circle spell, and i dont remember failing it since i got to 50. second why argue numbers? 99 percent is pretty much never fail and 75 percent is a pretty high success rate also. It could be done so that you blind yourself when it fails. finally i think its obvious mages are more powerful, practically everyone is a mage, and as was mentioned above you dont get much out of being a gunfighter instead. A lot of the stuff that gunfighters use to be on the same level as mages are design flaws. Stuff like snipe, and backstab flee (which is screwy because the alert flag only lasts one tick as far as i could tell, but still one tick or two its too quick) and of course the blind shoot thing, and the snipe rent come back snipe again. Hopefully technological eq could be added like the sunglasses, or skills which would give gunfighters different kinds of similar but different capabilities like mages

From: Lethargio Sunday, October 13, 06:37AM

I would just like to agree with the 2 messages above ;)

From: Donelan Sunday, October 13, 11:15AM

Don't be too quick to fiddle with blinding. I've heard that the skill trees will include blinding skills for fighters. I'd guess that these also will be 'why-not' skills that have no chance of backlash if you fail, and I can also guess that their will be NO way to block it, unlike the blind spell, which can be thwarted by a strong magic sink.

As for mages being too powerful, I think it is better to say that mages have SOME advantages in SOME situations. And by using the general term 'mages,' you seem to be including cause mages, create mages, and any fighter who can cobble together enough mind and spirit to light a match. A blind create mage is worse off than any blind fighter-type, IMHO. They have to run for the inn just like any sniper. And they can't blind you without blinding everything else in the room, including those they group with!

Mages can't ID other players, and get no xp when they ID mobs. And the gods have been coding mobs to thwart ID anway. They eat their eq, or they just repop immediately, so what's the point of that?

Your most powerful mages, the ones that rarely miscast, the ones that do the most damage with offensive spells, are the 100 mind mages. And you see very few of those around, espeically in pkill. Why? Because they suck at combat. A 100 mind cause mage can do 60 points of damage with an immolate spells, max. They can cast the spell every two rounds. During that time, they probably haven't hit their opponent at all, between having a low perc and fighting somebody with the dodge skill. Their opponent is probably maxing the damage cap each round, then using kick, or headbutt, or warcry, or bash.

A 100 mind create mage's most powerful damage spell is etheric void. Not only does it work like immolate, but there is indeed a chance of backlash, according to the help file. With a 75% chance of casting it correctly, a huge mana cost, even if you fail, and the proliferation of high-minded mobs, I've never used it. Why should I pay 100 mana just so I can get backlashed?

'Practically everone is a mage.' What this means is that practically every fighter can max out their fight stat and still be able to blind you. Belive me, mages -- TRUE mages -- are even more likely to fall to someone who can bash AND blind. So don't say mages are too powerful. It's those fighters that are eating the mages' lunch that are the powerful ones.

The only mage I've seen that had maxed out a fight stat and his mind was a con fighter. He had 100 mind and 100 con. Let's see... low dex, low str, low perc. Can't flee, can't kick, can't headbutt. Can't land a blow. Can't dodge. Has to rely on a strength spell just to move around. Can't ID players. If a cause mage, can't ID most high-level mobs. If a create mage, can't even throw the nifty ID vials he can make.

Mages are too powerful? Give me a break.

From: Mystbane Sunday, October 13, 06:12PM

Mages ARE powerful, no ifs and buts and whatever.

Maybe it has to be cleared out that it is possible to have 100 dex and 100 mind, not only the 100con/mind combo.

But that is not the point. By saying mages are too powerful, we were talking about those you classified as 'fighter-mages.'

Those that clumsy/idiocy/weaken/blind while maintaining high enough perc to land hits and 100 dex or so to deliver 9 attacks and kicks/bashes/headbutts and whatnot.

What I was getting at was to up stat costs for spells or skills such that this fighter/mage combo should be nearly impossible or cost them a great number of combat-skills.

100mind and 100con. You have 500+ mana and 500+ hps, and you can practically stun everybody in sight (with idiocy cast on smarter mobs, you still have about 30%--what i usually get chance of stunning a mob, still..and there are lotsa dumb players and mobs around) and protecting yourself with a very effective sink. Why cast immolate every two rounds when you can cast stun, taking away their ability to damage you in anyway for a round while landing all your blows? and if they do remain stunned, you can cast an immolate to do double damage. Besides, 100mind/con mages also are able to warcry (with a strength spell, usually) which they might want to substitute for a stun. Create mages of course are naturally handicapped against players, but that was your decision. Create mages, IMHO, has more of the flair of being self-sufficient than being effective in combat, being able to create food/water, preserve/tform, (tho cause can tform too) and create homunculi, doppels and whatnot to tag along as 'company.'

The way I see it, cause spells should require more stats to prevent the making of a fighter/mage that just devastates anything on their path. Cause-fighters are really fun to play with, due to their ability to do so much.

From: Beam Monday, October 14, 12:55AM

Dont forget herblore i got herblore too and i can spam for 100hp poultices, if i leave the eq in the clan hall.

From: Lethargio Monday, October 14, 08:00AM

re: to donelan
I think your thinking wrong here...most mages CAN headbutt/bash/flee, also can land blows pretty well (if your a dex fighter). I've never seen anyone immolate or use powerful damage spells on me before, they just use stun most of the time. also, do you have a high level sniper char? if you don't, then i don't think you know what you are talking about. if you do, you would know how hard for a sniper to compete with a mage, because, all you have that you can do that they can't is, well, shoot

lethargio, I think that the sentence structure is akward, the journeyman

From: Beam Monday, October 14, 04:40PM

um lethargio backstab with 50 60 perc do 30 to 1hp of damage while 90perc backstab can do 60hp damage, that is a big weapon especially if used once per tick

From: Oenone Monday, October 14, 06:04PM

Hey, I'm a mage [2nd circle, but still] and I have 10 dex. I can't flee, I can't bash, I can't kick, or even hunt. :P

From: Tsukuyomi Thursday, October 17, 11:48PM

yeah, but most people would stack up on their dex its just that your one of the few people that don't

From: Mystbane Friday, October 18, 02:42AM

*ponder* so? most ppl stacking up on dex is already a sign that there is something wrong...besides, you'd be surprised by the number of ppl going about with low dex.

From: Lethargio Friday, October 18, 08:55PM

yeah, but the people with low dex hardly are good fighters

From: Dyn Tuesday, November 12, 06:06AM

I have reason to believe they are better fighters than you are,



1996 Topic Index