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Posted by Mystbane on 10/14/96

I love this idea of not having set classes, as people can choose any combination of abilities (ideally) and still be balanced throughout. Well, we all know this is not the case. Mages can easily double time as warriors, due to the lack of combat skills that are only available to those who choose to be 'true' fighters. Kick/bash/headbutt can easily be obtained by any mage and equally as effective as those of the non-mages Rage and warcry might possibly be the only other combat skills that are just a tad bit harder to get for mages, and, as rage is hardly useful when attack/fleeing and warcry non-dependable, it becomes obvious that mages dont miss much as far as combat is concerned. To thwart this, i think combat skills should require more base stats to use, upping its primary stat to say, 60 or so and secondary to 40, or at least at the lvl of rage/warcry, making it less accessible to mages.

Moreover, hometown restrictions should be less binding, such as ppl from klein not being able to brew/flavor anything whereas Limans and Tarans are allowed to brew in addition to their ability to either snipe or be a 2nd circle...


From: Donelan Sunday, October 13, 11:05AM

You have it backwards, Mystbane. If you'll watch any of these fighter/mages at work, you'll see that most of them are getting nine attacks per round, once they reach the appropriate levels. So that means that they have maxed out their fight stat, and they just barely get by on the stat requirements for magic. I assure you, there are very few 100 mind mages out there that have the dex that makes headbutt or kick useful.

So if you want to 'fix' anything, come up with ideas that would prevent fighters from 'double-timing' as mages. To me, if you have a 100 dex/60 mind, you're not a mage/fighter, you're a fighter/mage.

Of course, making it harder to mix skills and spells, as you suggest, would make it harder to call this a 'classless' mud, wouldn't it?

From: Beam Sunday, October 13, 04:06PM

donelan i think your just confusing everything, first mind dont complately make mages, first off offensive spells arent the biggest weapon in my opinion. What you consider a true mage is agrabah 100 mind mages, and most people have known that they are harder to pkill with. whatever you want to call them the 60 mind type mages with all 2nd circle cause words are the the toughest mages, imho, as long as they are cause. And as far as getting 100 mind and 100 dex, i have seen it done too many times to remember with mind/con and mind dex and one person did mind/str so there is nothing hard about that. What your talking about more is perc. Thats the biggest setback mages have

From: Donelan Sunday, October 13, 05:32PM

No, I'm not confusing things at all. Mystbane suggested making combat skills harder to get for mages. This is wrong because most people who can will max the fight stat and then have magic as a secondary profession. Boosting the stat requirements for fighting skills will make no difference at all. Boosting stat requirements for magic would, because it seems to me that most people would rather have 9 attacks and a kick that never fails rather than spells.

It's just a different way of looking at it. If you are a 100 dex fighter, then making headbutt harder to get won't matter too much to you. You'll still be able to use it. And that's how most 'mages' on Legend operate.

And finally, I again say that if you act to make it harder to mix various abilities, you drift farther away from a 'classless' mud.

From: Mystbane Sunday, October 13, 06:25PM

Donelan, you do have a point, but what i was pointing out was the ease in which ppl can get 100 dex and 60 mind, AND have enough stats for headbutts and bash, so that these dex mages dont miss out on anything.

Ok, so by upping the con req and str req for headbutt and bash, all a dex/mage can do is kick. Which will reduce their effectivity by a bit. What i am getting at is probably redundant if the skill trees go in. As far as upping the stats for spells goes, maybe nice now but it'll really wreak havoc in spell lvls. Imagine upping the mind req./spr req./con req. or whatever on spells...mages learn words starting from lvl2, and if you up that, they will not be able to learn most of the words until lvl 10 or so where they have enough rent space to fiddle with and the exact info on their stats to get specific words. I know unless you choose constitution or perception quite high, there are many words you cant really learn at lvl2. If we were based on a spell system instead of a word system it maybe possible to up their stats, depending on the difficulty rating of a word.

What I am hoping for, in general, is to have a lot of fighting skills that require 60+ in all combat stats, or stat req.s similar to warcry or rage in order to thwart having characters like now who are not missing out on much, as far as combat is concerned.

From: Beam Monday, October 14, 01:00AM

Donelan you say legend isnt classed and while there isnt a class prompt when you make your character, there is a hometown choice which limits what your character can do to some degree. It would be more appropriate to say legend has some classless skill sets in my opinion. Also alot of these classed muds dont make you choose a certain fighting stat. One can choose different weapon types without having to learn a skill. This is also similar to a class system, although you can switch as some of us do, but it costs valuable practices. The problem has been that a certain classes have been stronger than some others. notably dex cause, with hometown choice being more personal opinion, add leveling to 50 as con then switching to dex, and you have a wide selection of skills. So its just a case of one type of of either fighter mages being to strong or the other "classes" being to weak Hopefully new things can be added for the other classes to make them more enjoyable and practical.

But you do lose a few things if your a fighter mage, at least if your from tara. You dont have a big offensive weapon that does huge damage. No high perc 60hp backstab, no 60hp/120hp immoliate, one does have kick, hehe wish i had a practice free for it. But i like headbutts better. But at least in my experience whenever i lose a duel its cuz someone got in a couple too many big hp backstabs or a stunning immoliate.


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