Discussion Index

For debate: new score display?

1997 Topic Index

Posted by Ptah on 05/24

\  |----------------------------------------------------------------------
/__|                         CHARACTER NAME & TITLE                       
           Strength: ___              Mind: ___            Level: __    
          Dexterity: ___      Constitution: ___         Prestige: ___    
         Perception: ___            Spirit: ___       
    Experience: _________    Hit Points: ______      Armor Rating: ___/___
    Experience                 Movement: ______        Hit Rating: ___
      to Level: _________          Mana: ______     Damage Rating: ___
      Practice Sessions: __                           Gold: ______ coins
              Alignment: ____               Weight carried: ___ kg
                 Played: _____ hours                   Age: _____ years
         Combat Strategy: Extremely aggressive, flee at ___ hit points.

- I hate the current display, as it seems very cluttered. I know lots of folks like it, but it seems very unfriendly to me, and poorly laid out. Opinions?

- Some say that it is easier to quickly find things on the current than proposed one, others say the opposite. Opinions?

- Elements are easily moved in this one. Any you'd move?

- This score display would let you see all of the above all the way from level one, as it is set up right now. One option that was discussed was giving "word" display of stats you haven't seen yet instead. Opinions?

- This loses seeing several things; do you miss them?

Comments welcome.


PS obviously, the banners would not be truncated. :)

From: Huma Tuesday, May 13, 06:25PM

wheres the slot for Karma? Huma, Dragonbane

From: Lynche Tuesday, May 13, 06:25PM

i say leave it the way it is...

From: Lust Tuesday, May 13, 06:26PM

What about your desc and clan affiliation? would that still be in there? If not, I personally like being able to see what my desc is without having to ask people, unless you were gonnamake a new command for that?

From: Shiva Tuesday, May 13, 06:31PM

Well I think the biggest problem with the switch over would simply be the fact everyone is used to the present score. Though I do like the new layout, which looks less cluttered, it also would probably be somewhat spammy. I like the idea of being able to toggle between the two though. Shiva

From: Ptah Tuesday, May 13, 06:36PM

Heh, guess I ought to clarify a little... - My motive for wanting to redo it is that the current display is for ME, very hard to read. I find it spammy by my definition of spam, which is to say text dumped out with no clear resting points, very fast. In active play, the score display to me scrolls by way too fast for me to read it, given that you have to pretty much read most of it to find something, because it all blends together. Now, I know many do not agree with this, but that's how I feel about it. - Yes, we can make it toggleable, of course. We'd need to resolve the issue of which is default, and of what info one shows that the other does not (e.g. if this one gave stats at lvl 1, then we'd have to make that change in the current version too). - This one was designed with skill trees in mind, hence showing stats (which under skill trees change slowly) from the start. - Info not in this but which you'd want to see would have to be in a separate command, yes. Then again, I want to check my stats often, and my description rarely. :) So limiting what comes at you in the frequently used command seemed wise. - Last comment about spam--this one is actually shorter than my current immort score. :P - This is also in part related to the desire to just make the overall interface nicer (hence afk, new board editor, banners on the help files, words for color setting, and who knows what future things). Whatever the current score is (used to it, hate it, etc) it certainly doesn't LOOK nice or clear to a newbie. :) -Ptah

From: Medicine Tuesday, May 13, 06:40PM

I see nothing wrong with compact score. In fact, I think the score sheet s should be as compact as possible. Of course, the arrangement of the score sheet can be reorganized, but I would still prefer a less spammy version. For a true newbie though, the proposed score sheet looks more friendly. I say we should allow the two kinds of score sheets to be toggled. And I thi think the banner should be removed or at least changed to something less s spammy. Medicine

From: Faramir Tuesday, May 13, 07:04PM

I think the banners personally are a bit stupid and make our mud look flowery. I think it is very spammy and I don't even enjoy reading the hel help boards anymore while stunned:) The banners to me are just spam that waste my time with things i don't need and would just make the scrore that much longer. I don't think you should outright say that we couldn't have it taken out as you said, where it couldn't be truncated. As to the toggle idea, that is a very good idea and I like what medicine said about scored being compact, he is right and they should be as compact as possible. Sorry to waste precious board space with my sm mind:) Thanks. -Faramir, the ever thinking even with his small mind!

From: Solomon Tuesday, May 13, 07:11PM

I like the idea of some element to frame the display, but I dislike the banners. I'd prefer no title (I know it's a score display, after all), and a line of equal signs to frame the top and bottom.

From: Istishia Tuesday, May 13, 07:38PM

Personally i really like the new format. It looks nice and organized, very friendly to a newbie. I remember looking at the score and having to look all about for me hp and stuff. Thats just what i think, though it does look nice :) Ist

From: Mice Tuesday, May 13, 07:40PM

I like the new format because it is more organized, easier to read, and overall looks better. the old score is jumbled, but i like t fact that it tells you your position, that you are hungry, burned, bleedin etc. my two cents. mice

From: Bulk Tuesday, May 13, 09:54PM

At least, i think the banners should be toggle-able. I like the idea of words for stats -whistle self- at lower levels, and the new one does look a bit more organized, except: I find it much easier to read off numbers that are closer to the left end of the screen, and same goes for other texts. The new one would broaden my vision(!) as most combat texts, mud socials etc rarely force you to travel too far to the center of the screen. (not sure if i got it out correctly). Instead of a justified format, i think it'd be much easier if the lines were left-justified, and brackets around the numbers do help quite a bit. Description, clan affiliation, and spell effects maybe something i'd like to see, or at least, a tag that will tell me whether i have my desc on or off. Bulk

From: Manic Tuesday, May 13, 10:00PM

I reckon if banners should exist at all they should be done in ansi, sure it'll come out weird for some at 1st but all that's needed is to switch to a proper terminal font. On the other hand i much prefer a compact score t the example shown.

From: Bulk Tuesday, May 13, 10:01PM

Personally, i think i'd like something like: ;) [LVL] Name Title [hrs] STR: [___] MIN: [___] DEX: [___] CON: [___] PER: [___] SPI: [___] PRS: [___] HP: [___/___] MV: [___/___] MA: [___/___] XP: [_____/_____] ALiGN: [___] RENT: [____/____] GP: [____] AR: [__/__] Weight: [__/___] PRC: [_] AGG: [_] +HIT: [_] +DAM: [_] FX: POS: (hrm, forgot wimpy above fx) Bulk :P

From: Bulk Tuesday, May 13, 10:10PM

seriously though, i'd like to see configurable scores where we decide what goes in and what goes out. If it can be done for prompts, it shoult be doable for score. Newbies should start, of course, with whatever the norm becomes.

From: Charity Tuesday, May 13, 11:28PM

Another thought... while a fully configurable score might be possible (I'm not a coder so won't speak for them) it's not likely to be a coding priority. In the meantime, it seems that the current score gives more information in a more compact way, whereas the proposed new score (with or without banners) is nicer looking... the new score would be, IMHO, more attractive to newbies and people who take a more leisurely approach to fighting. Faramir is right, though, in that hard-core gamers will think it too flowery. So what if, in addition to having a toggle between old and new score formats, you could access the alternate format with a command? This would be like the way 'l r' or 'look room' works currently to give you a room descript without turning brief back off. With this addition (which should be easy to add) everybody can access whatever information they need, and still choose the format that they'd prefer to look at most of the time.

From: Lethargio Tuesday, May 13, 11:49PM

well, I don't really mind the current one, cept for my desc is kind of cluttered

From: Tank Tuesday, May 13, 11:49PM

I personally like the idea of configurable score, it not, at least make it a toggle choice. I do agree however, that the cirrent score is a bit spammy. Tanks Tank

From: Diet Wednesday, May 14, 12:04AM

I like the new one, and I agree with Lust where are the clan and descript info? My one MAJOR issue, which goes with trees --- can we PLEASE PLEASE see out base HP/mana/mv ? Yeah, yeah we can see our current and current max -- but to config eq we need to know bases and the EXACT amount of HP per con eq worn / mind eq etc... Diet

From: Merrick Wednesday, May 14, 02:36AM

I like the organization of the new style, although some aspects of the old score sheet are gone, such as clan? Also I hope there is a spot for desc stuff, whether it is on or off at lea I like the idea of words for newbies until they are high enough to see all stats. Maybe they can uncover one piece with each level, till level 10 or somethi Could make the game more strategic, because then slowly you can piece together how good (or bad) your stats are. Well that's about all I have to say. I think I'm almost done. There, I'm done. Merrick

From: Ptah Wednesday, May 14, 09:25AM

Configurable score IS doable, I suppose. -ponder- It's definitely a lot more work than I had in mind. Boy, do I hate the brackets, Bulk. :) What you have there, I find very hard to read. :) I disagree that "hard-core gamers" will automatically prefer the cluttered version; I haven't visited a mud in the last year that didn't have a nicer score display than we do, at the very least formatted. I also don't think that "flowery" is necessarily the issue; it's more a matter of separating out the score display from what I'd call regular mud output, whereas currently it blends in. I chose the banner just ebcause it looked good and because it was in the help files already, to make things consistent. If we changed it in score, I'd change it in helpfiles too. One last thing regarding nice looks--I'll frankly admit that I have an eye here towards appealing to non-mudders, non-text-readers, people who expect a nice flashy interface, and yes, "flowery." That is because the vast majority of our players are that type, and the percentage is only likely to grow. We're competing with graphical games and with Java games and the like for newbies nowadays, and a friendlier more inviting interface is one way to do it. I'm eyeing redoing the intro sequence as well for greater accessibility. -Ptah

From: Fairfax Wednesday, May 14, 10:48AM

Um, perhaps some colour (which can be configured) to segregate headings and numbers, such as 'MIND : [100]'? Boy, I hope that turned out ok.. Fairfax

From: Ptah Wednesday, May 14, 11:20AM

We cannot rely on colors for clarity--only to enhance something that is already clear. A LOT of people do not have or use color (In fact, a lot of people do not have ANSI graphics either, to respond to an earlier comment in the thread). -Ptah

From: Densiva Wednesday, May 14, 07:41PM

i like it. it reminds me of a D+D character sheet! :P

From: ParticleMan Wednesday, May 14, 07:15PM

I like both the idea for a new score look and for a toggable score. I like the old score (just 'cause I'm used to it and I really hate change) but I like the way the new score opens things up and makes it look like there is loads of room. I do find myself not being able to find stuff in my score at times. I agree with Ptah that the 'flowery' look of the new prompt is needed to try to keep some if the new players. I still remember my first time looking at my score and wondering if I would ever figure out what the heck all that weird looking stuff was that was up there. I don't feel that by having a 'flowery' score we will drive away the hard-core mudders, for the same reason that I stuck around even though I was intimidated by the old score format... Legend is just a great place to be!! Thats my 1 cent (after taxes).. ParticleMan

From: Lagmonster Wednesday, May 14, 08:37PM

i personally like the brackets, as they serve to highlight the numbers, though they may not look good cosmetically ;) configurable score, maybe even configurable color-wise for those of us that are ansi-enabled, could be nice :)

From: Manic Wednesday, May 14, 11:25PM

Don't forget the only way to check stats on items currently is to compare score before and after the item's worn, it's gonna be harder for those with scrollback and a real pain for those without.

From: Lethargio Thursday, May 15, 01:54AM

Was thinking of suggesting a skill that would enable you to see the items stats, rent, ac, and special effects and stuff...

From: Ptah Saturday, May 17, 03:03PM

That would be some sort of identify skill, spell, or both. Yes, both are badly needed as fully functional, useful things, as gradual stats come in. -Ptah

From: Lagmonster Saturday, May 17, 06:50PM

hrm, we could add a quality rating to items in terms of how fast stats change, couldn't we? let's say a q5 +5 equip lets stats change 5 pts per tick, whereas q1 +5 would take +1 stat per tick :P

From: Puck Saturday, May 24, 11:16AM

Well, whatever you do, take that silly '/10' out of the armor rating. It may mean something in D&D but it sure doesn't mean a dang thing here. Just my $0.02 Puck


1997 Topic Index