For debate: new score display?
Posted by Ptah on 05/24
/__| CHARACTER NAME & TITLE
Strength: ___ Mind: ___ Level: __
Dexterity: ___ Constitution: ___ Prestige: ___
Perception: ___ Spirit: ___
Experience: _________ Hit Points: ______ Armor Rating: ___/___
Experience Movement: ______ Hit Rating: ___
to Level: _________ Mana: ______ Damage Rating: ___
Practice Sessions: __ Gold: ______ coins
Alignment: ____ Weight carried: ___ kg
Played: _____ hours Age: _____ years
Combat Strategy: Extremely aggressive, flee at ___ hit points.
- I hate the current display, as it seems very cluttered. I know lots of
folks like it, but it seems very unfriendly to me, and poorly laid out.
- Some say that it is easier to quickly find things on the current than
proposed one, others say the opposite. Opinions?
- Elements are easily moved in this one. Any you'd move?
- This score display would let you see all of the above all the way from
level one, as it is set up right now. One option that was discussed was
giving "word" display of stats you haven't seen yet instead. Opinions?
- This loses seeing several things; do you miss them?
PS obviously, the banners would not be truncated. :)
Tuesday, May 13, 06:25PM
wheres the slot for Karma?
Tuesday, May 13, 06:25PM
i say leave it the way it is...
Tuesday, May 13, 06:26PM
What about your desc and clan affiliation? would that still be in there?
If not, I personally like being able to see what my desc is without
having to ask people, unless you were gonnamake a new command for that?
Tuesday, May 13, 06:31PM
Well I think the biggest problem with the switch over would
simply be the fact everyone is used to the present score. Though
I do like the new layout, which looks less cluttered, it also
would probably be somewhat spammy. I like the idea of being
able to toggle between the two though.
Tuesday, May 13, 06:36PM
Heh, guess I ought to clarify a little...
- My motive for wanting to redo it is that the current display is for
ME, very hard to read. I find it spammy by my definition of spam,
which is to say text dumped out with no clear resting points, very fast.
In active play, the score display to me scrolls by way too fast for
me to read it, given that you have to pretty much read most of it to
find something, because it all blends together. Now, I know many
do not agree with this, but that's how I feel about it.
- Yes, we can make it toggleable, of course. We'd need to resolve the
issue of which is default, and of what info one shows that the other
does not (e.g. if this one gave stats at lvl 1, then we'd have to make
that change in the current version too).
- This one was designed with skill trees in mind, hence showing stats
(which under skill trees change slowly) from the start.
- Info not in this but which you'd want to see would have to be in a
separate command, yes. Then again, I want to check my stats often,
and my description rarely. :) So limiting what comes at you in the
frequently used command seemed wise.
- Last comment about spam--this one is actually shorter than my current
immort score. :P
- This is also in part related to the desire to just make the overall
interface nicer (hence afk, new board editor, banners on the help
files, words for color setting, and who knows what future things).
Whatever the current score is (used to it, hate it, etc) it certainly
doesn't LOOK nice or clear to a newbie. :)
Tuesday, May 13, 06:40PM
I see nothing wrong with compact score. In fact, I think the score sheet s
should be as compact as possible. Of course, the arrangement of the score
sheet can be reorganized, but I would still prefer a less spammy version.
For a true newbie though, the proposed score sheet looks more friendly. I
say we should allow the two kinds of score sheets to be toggled. And I thi
think the banner should be removed or at least changed to something less s
Tuesday, May 13, 07:04PM
I think the banners personally are a bit stupid and make our mud look
flowery. I think it is very spammy and I don't even enjoy reading the hel
help boards anymore while stunned:) The banners to me are just spam that
waste my time with things i don't need and would just make the scrore that
much longer. I don't think you should outright say that we couldn't have
it taken out as you said, where it couldn't be truncated.
As to the toggle idea, that is a very good idea and I like
what medicine said about scored being compact, he is right and they should
be as compact as possible. Sorry to waste precious board space with my sm
-Faramir, the ever thinking even with his small mind!
Tuesday, May 13, 07:11PM
I like the idea of some element to frame the display, but I dislike the
banners. I'd prefer no title (I know it's a score display, after all),
and a line of equal signs to frame the top and bottom.
Tuesday, May 13, 07:38PM
Personally i really like the new format.
It looks nice and organized, very friendly to a newbie.
I remember looking at the score and having to look all about for me hp and
Thats just what i think, though it does look nice :)
Tuesday, May 13, 07:40PM
I like the new format because it is more organized, easier
to read, and overall looks better. the old score is jumbled, but i like t
fact that it tells you your position, that you are hungry, burned, bleedin
my two cents.
Tuesday, May 13, 09:54PM
At least, i think the banners should be toggle-able.
I like the idea of words for stats -whistle self- at lower levels,
and the new one does look a bit more organized, except:
I find it much easier to read off numbers that are closer to the
left end of the screen, and same goes for other texts. The new
one would broaden my vision(!) as most combat texts, mud socials
etc rarely force you to travel too far to the center of the
screen. (not sure if i got it out correctly). Instead of a justified
format, i think it'd be much easier if the lines were left-justified,
and brackets around the numbers do help quite a bit.
Description, clan affiliation, and spell effects maybe something
i'd like to see, or at least, a tag that will tell me whether i have
my desc on or off.
Tuesday, May 13, 10:00PM
I reckon if banners should exist at all they should be done in ansi, sure
it'll come out weird for some at 1st but all that's needed is to switch to
a proper terminal font. On the other hand i much prefer a compact score t
the example shown.
Tuesday, May 13, 10:01PM
Personally, i think i'd like something like: ;)
[LVL] Name Title [hrs]
STR: [___] MIN: [___]
DEX: [___] CON: [___]
PER: [___] SPI: [___]
HP: [___/___] MV: [___/___] MA: [___/___] XP: [_____/_____]
ALiGN: [___] RENT: [____/____] GP: [____]
AR: [__/__] Weight: [__/___]
PRC: [_] AGG: [_] +HIT: [_] +DAM: [_]
(hrm, forgot wimpy above fx)
Tuesday, May 13, 10:10PM
seriously though, i'd like to see configurable scores where we
decide what goes in and what goes out. If it can be done for
prompts, it shoult be doable for score. Newbies should start,
of course, with whatever the norm becomes.
Tuesday, May 13, 11:28PM
Another thought... while a fully configurable score might be possible
(I'm not a coder so won't speak for them) it's not likely to be a
coding priority. In the meantime, it seems that the current score
gives more information in a more compact way, whereas the proposed
new score (with or without banners) is nicer looking... the new score
would be, IMHO, more attractive to newbies and people who take a more
leisurely approach to fighting. Faramir is right, though, in that
hard-core gamers will think it too flowery.
So what if, in addition to having a toggle between old and new
score formats, you could access the alternate format with a command?
This would be like the way 'l r' or 'look room' works currently to
give you a room descript without turning brief back off. With this
addition (which should be easy to add) everybody can access whatever
information they need, and still choose the format that they'd prefer
to look at most of the time.
Tuesday, May 13, 11:49PM
well, I don't really mind the current one, cept for my desc is kind of
Tuesday, May 13, 11:49PM
I personally like the idea of configurable score, it not, at least
make it a toggle choice. I do agree however, that the cirrent score is a
Wednesday, May 14, 12:04AM
I like the new one, and I agree with Lust where are the clan and
My one MAJOR issue, which goes with trees --- can we PLEASE PLEASE
see out base HP/mana/mv ? Yeah, yeah we can see our current and
current max -- but to config eq we need to know bases and the EXACT
amount of HP per con eq worn / mind eq etc...
Wednesday, May 14, 02:36AM
I like the organization of the new style, although some aspects
of the old score sheet are gone, such as clan?
Also I hope there is a spot for desc stuff, whether it is on or off at lea
I like the idea of words for newbies until they are high enough to see
Maybe they can uncover one piece with each level, till level 10 or somethi
Could make the game more strategic, because then slowly you can
piece together how good (or bad) your stats are.
Well that's about all I have to say. I think I'm almost done.
There, I'm done.
Wednesday, May 14, 09:25AM
Configurable score IS doable, I suppose. -ponder- It's definitely a lot
more work than I had in mind.
Boy, do I hate the brackets, Bulk. :) What you have there, I find very
hard to read. :)
I disagree that "hard-core gamers" will automatically prefer the
cluttered version; I haven't visited a mud in the last year that didn't
have a nicer score display than we do, at the very least formatted.
I also don't think that "flowery" is necessarily the issue; it's more
a matter of separating out the score display from what I'd call
regular mud output, whereas currently it blends in. I chose the banner
just ebcause it looked good and because it was in the help files
already, to make things consistent. If we changed it in score, I'd
change it in helpfiles too.
One last thing regarding nice looks--I'll frankly admit that I have an
eye here towards appealing to non-mudders, non-text-readers, people
who expect a nice flashy interface, and yes, "flowery." That is because
the vast majority of our players are that type, and the percentage is
only likely to grow. We're competing with graphical games and with
Java games and the like for newbies nowadays, and a friendlier more
inviting interface is one way to do it. I'm eyeing redoing the intro
sequence as well for greater accessibility.
Wednesday, May 14, 10:48AM
Um, perhaps some colour (which can be configured) to segregate
headings and numbers, such as 'MIND : '?
Boy, I hope that turned out ok..
Wednesday, May 14, 11:20AM
We cannot rely on colors for clarity--only to enhance something that is
already clear. A LOT of people do not have or use color (In fact, a lot
of people do not have ANSI graphics either, to respond to an earlier
comment in the thread).
Wednesday, May 14, 07:41PM
i like it. it reminds me of a D+D character sheet! :P
Wednesday, May 14, 07:15PM
I like both the idea for a new score look and for a toggable score.
I like the old score (just 'cause I'm used to it and I really hate change)
but I like the way the new score opens things up and makes it look like
there is loads of room. I do find myself not being able to find stuff
in my score at times.
I agree with Ptah that the 'flowery' look of the new prompt is needed
to try to keep some if the new players. I still remember my first time
looking at my score and wondering if I would ever figure out what the
heck all that weird looking stuff was that was up there. I don't feel that
by having a 'flowery' score we will drive away the hard-core mudders, for
the same reason that I stuck around even though I was intimidated by
the old score format... Legend is just a great place to be!!
Thats my 1 cent (after taxes)..
Wednesday, May 14, 08:37PM
i personally like the brackets, as they serve to highlight the
numbers, though they may not look good cosmetically ;)
configurable score, maybe even configurable color-wise for those of
us that are ansi-enabled, could be nice :)
Wednesday, May 14, 11:25PM
Don't forget the only way to check stats on items currently is to
compare score before and after the item's worn, it's gonna be harder
for those with scrollback and a real pain for those without.
Thursday, May 15, 01:54AM
Was thinking of suggesting a skill that would enable you to see the items
stats, rent, ac, and special effects and stuff...
Saturday, May 17, 03:03PM
That would be some sort of identify skill, spell, or both. Yes, both are
badly needed as fully functional, useful things, as gradual stats come
Saturday, May 17, 06:50PM
hrm, we could add a quality rating to items in terms of how fast
stats change, couldn't we? let's say a q5 +5 equip lets stats change
5 pts per tick, whereas q1 +5 would take +1 stat per tick :P
Saturday, May 24, 11:16AM
Well, whatever you do, take that silly '/10' out of the armor rating. It
may mean something in D&D but it sure doesn't mean a dang thing here.
Just my $0.02