people were saying that con will stink.
however, the way i see it, con will rule. instead of a dex-based mud, legend will now become a con-based mud.
everyone will want the stunning ability of headbutt as well as the hps of a con fighter.
the question is this: will anything change in the diversity of chars? i would guess that it won't. nowadays, almost everyone is 100 dex and the they have another high stat or a group of them (for surgeons).
with the change, it'll be the same, only everyone will be 100 con instead.
go ahead and poll the mud. the most popular skill is probably headbutt. and if you look at the characters around here, everyone goes for someone with high hps (including myself). with the number of hps being based on current con, everyone will stay at 100 con due to the importance that we all seem to give to having a lot of hps.
anyway, any thoughts?
The coders seem to be trashing everything else that has been good on the m mud.. i wouldnt be suprised if quests were going to be aligned soon..
who needs pkill?
who needs these changes?
Ohh yeah, isn't AC gonna be changed to damage absorption rather than simply affecting hit/miss!?
but leaving headbutt dex-based will leave the mud equally unbalanced, as i is now... dex will still rule. Giving every char some ability to stun wil in effect eliminate diversity (it'll be simply cosmetic)... so if we are moving headbutt to con, why not reduce skill-lag in dex skills, such as kick? or maybe give headbutters a chance to "backlash" headbutting a nearby tree instead, or something.
I am doing up to 180ish points with headbutts now, and it is the ONLY skill other than a lucky warcry that gives me the little chance i have whe fighting hp monsters. It only takes 2-3 stuns to kill me with my current, somewhat beefed-up hps, and after skill trees, it will hardly take 2 round I guess i'm just babbling, but in short, i agree with irony in headbutt being the most powerful pkill skill, and i agree with manic in that we all need more hps to put strategy/skill back into pkill. The way it is now, an inexperienced mage could kill me just by chanting three words.
Next, concerning expanding hps--seems to me that an easier way to do this is reducing average damage instead. :) That would mean that instead of making pkill (which is engaged in by 5% of the characters) more strategic and obliging the imms to redo every darn mob on the mud to double their hps, we could keep the mobs in the same scale, and reduce the effects of stuff like hitroll across the board. There are multiple paths to the same goal, and redefining the value of a hit point is a lot easier than rewriting the mud database.
What's going on is basically trying to bring the game back into balance.
To give you a better idea of what I mean--we COULD also just readjust the XP a mob is worth by tracking what levels typically kill it. You'd find that most every mob of lvl 45+ would drop to lvl 30 or so... and XP would be much harder to come by.
Now, one thing people always suggest is to just add more at the top. But that, unfortunately, is an unwinnable arms race. The new tougher mobs end up needing ever nicer eq, thenplayers get that much mor epowerful, etc. Balance is the other viable alternative...
As for 100 con having 800 hp and 30 having 500, i think it makes definate sense, as the problem with hp isnt damage its disparity.
Kinda the good things you get out of hp min and maxes for classes from other muds. One level 50 shouldnt have 120 hp and another 600 no matter how they do their chars, char gen here is anarchy.
The ability to hit or thac0 should be based on level, and the ability to n be hit should be based on armor.
One of the big problems with this mud I have always thought was armors insignifigance.
If you made everyones ability to not get hit with weapon attacks or skills all solely based on armor, and made plenty of armor with it progressively harder to get with the better it was then you would go a long way to fix t problem. Whether a players ability to hit with skills (I would say the best way for to hit with weapons would be weapon stat based against armor) is against the opponents armor, or level, its clear that stat against stat has led to some chaos.
Its a bit silly to me anyway that someone with 100 dex and poor armor can successfully get out of the way of someones headbutt or kick or whatev The problem with str dex and con fighters is your comparing apples to oranges, and there isn't any constants because armor is a joke.
I think you will have to make armor the most important by far overall defensive thing before things will work.
I'm not sure who originally designed the fight system, but theres a lot of major issues with it that have never been addressed and with the changes im hearing about, it doesn't really sound like they are going to be.
I think the mud would be closer to being balanced with the old type rolls I have heard about, where stats are over 50 and there was less stat eq, that way armor eq would be the most important thing.
Don't kid yourself if you got one person with 600 hp and another with 250, and the one with 600 is landing headbutts cutting damage in half isn't goi going to matter much. Unless of course the con fighter with 600 never hits anyone, which is the bad thing about con fighters now. On the otherhand if everyones hp at level 50 was within 150 hp, then you could do some fine tuning.
Anyway I'm looking forward to the changes and I hope they work out great good luck.
Course it would be hard to do since anyone can be anything here, but if true dex fighters were the only ones given dodge as it is now, and the alert flag for backstab was removed, they could still really rock and if it wasn't too powerful dex fighters would be doing backstab fleeing which seems right to me.
Fleeing should be counterproductive for str and con fighters I would think general fighting anyway. With alert flag removed maybe a nice alert skill that worked like hide.
Making it so you start hitting someone as if they never fled the room would be nice, based upon your perception.
But that kinda ties in with an alert skill or awareness skill tree. Too bad were not going to get anymore practices.
That reminds me of something, does this make sense to anyone? Was talking a month or two back with an imm on chat about awards for 100 million xp. I was just thinking that a practice would be a neat prize.
but I remembered that when we was discussing rewards (on chat) that they s giving a spell or skill at 100 mill wouldnt be fair to everyone else, and this doesn't make sense to me, I mean what do you get when you hit 50, a p a practice right? Heh well i can't remember who it was but anything we suggested that would make a 100 mill player better was said it would give them an unfair advantage. I thought all that was needed for it to be fair was equal access to the bonus.
oops couldn't stop sorry for dhe spam
so if you are not a mage, it isn't too hard to have 100 con, or simply high con while maintaining a fighting stat, or even two, depending on the roll. -ponder- what was the point of bringing that one up..? god, lost my train of thought... doh. wait, i'll have it back soon...
oh yeah, so if somebody decided to be a non-con mage, with probably some str on the side, and if stun was changed so it wouldn't be auto-hit, then how are they going to stand a chance against a con/dex monster with tons o str? Or anyone, for that matter, if the hp difference will be so vast.
I have been pkilling (getting pkilled, rather) as an underdog with no adva advantages over any of the established pkillers (just about), and found ou that 100 pts is pretty hard to overcome, and 200 pts almost impossible, ha having to rely on luck. After skill trees, if the fighting stats are matc matched in importance, than a hp difference of 400+ seems simply outrageou to me, as there would be no way i can imagine that would surmount that.
Why not have constitution be more an intangible stat--instead of affecting the amount of hps, have it affect regen rate more. say with 100 con, you 30 pts back in a tick, and with 30 con only about 4-5 pts. In a long batt a battle where constitution should actually matter, it should prove effici and balancing enough.
And stun is way too powerful. Auto hit is one thing, double damage anothe and by preventing damage a stun usually spells 90 pts (60 you do, 30 you p prevent, in simple case). Giving all three stunning skills to a con/mage (warcry, headbutt, stun spell) who also has about tons more hps, makes it very clear that the battle will be lopsided...
now THAT makes sense. a truly dextrous fighter isn't gonna get headbutted too often by a big con fighter whose slow.
and if he's bashed by a str fighter, i would guess that he should tumble something like 50% of the time that he's hit, not to mention all the times that the brawny str fighter would miss...
just an idea.
sorry, this is erodic again.
What lagmonster suggests is what will bring equity/parity/balance to the mud between fighter types.
right now, since dex has been determined to be the strongest and its skills check against an opponents dex, everyone feels compelled to max that stat.
If you allow a dex fighter to escape a con attack or a str fighter to block a dex attack or a con fighter to just absorb and grin at a str attack, etc... then THAT will balance things.
the balance for fighting, in my opinion, woill probably end up depending on defensive maneuvers to avoid specials.
you know why justice is the only pkiller who is con without dex? because no one else is willing to get headbutted every time.
if something was done to make con fighters have more defensive measures (this is for now, of course) against dex skills, then they'd be more prevalent.
that will also be the case after trees.
Gabriella, the hp-less wonder
dex/perc fighter surgeon will work with spam gear, not sure how high of a perc you will have with full doctor ability, tho i think 80 is possible. anyway, the point is, against mobs, i could probably still hit/flee solo lvl 49ish mobs with a 100 hp dex/perc, but in pkill... no way. :P
also, (again, no offense to anyone here), gail and malorn did not strike fear into anyone's hearts as pkillers.
of course, this may be due to the fact that they were more rp-oriented pkillers, but the fact of the matter is, good pkillers almost invariably have had lots of hps.
If you look at people who were considered good a long time ago, (tempus, mercenary, kiera, auggie), they all had more hps than anyone else.
then you get to a later hp-monster era (sharpe, irony, howard), where they all had more hps than anyone else, too.
bottom line is, hps have always been really important, give or take 100.
Kiera consistently fought people not only with more hps, but with sanctuary as well (for you math freaks, some of the people she REGULARLY defeated had 3 times as many hps when you figure it all out). Merc was still around when the first round of 'later hp-monsters' came about and he faired quite well, not 100%, but better than most with those numbers of hit points.
"Good pkillers almost invariably have lots of hit points." Not true. Good pkillers don't need lots of hit points, mediocre ones with lots of hit points do well, good pkillers with lots of hit points utterly dominate pkill. I think that's a more accurate summation of the situation.