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this mud is a bummer!

1997 Topic Index

Posted by Densiva on 06/05

man you guys should get your priorties straight!

insted of wasting your time with all this fancy coding that makes the game harder, you should be looking for ways to make the game more fun im always disapointed by the way this mud plays now, it was alot of fun befor you started to f--- with it, now it sucks! only reson i still come around is because inspite of the "zerofun factor" i still got alot of friends here that i like to hangout with :P

-densiva :P

From: Densiva Wednesday, May 28, 10:12AM

and another thing! if you think your going to get smart and tell me to leave, im going to stick around and make your life a living hell! :P


From: Rufus Wednesday, May 28, 11:53AM

Considering that making the game a shade bit more difficult will prove challenging to most players, and boredom is the single largest reason for people leaving entirely, I see increasing the difficulty a bit as a rather good thing. Of course that's entirely different for those who have grown up with a silver spoon...

Much like I did... it was easy back when I started, relatively. The only thing that's kept my attention as a player is that it has been increasingly more difficult on occassion.

Just some very tired thoughts, but mine and my own.


From: Egami Wednesday, May 28, 03:21PM


I agree with Densiva, but in a less virulent way... This is not boredom which made me think about leaving the mud, but yes, because it is getting less and less fun... see for example that description thing which in my opinion is ridiculous (nb: IMMs didn't want to change my desc because they said it was for cheating with other pkillers -shrug-). But that's only an example...


From: Gail Wednesday, May 28, 04:43PM

I'm sorry that corpses saving over reboots upset you so much

From: Ptah Wednesday, May 28, 07:23PM

I'd like to see what you feel would make the game more fun. It's normal for a game to get less fun over time, as you have mastered most aspects of it. Yet players are very resistant to change, even though change brings challenge and challenge makes things fun...

As far as Egami's issue, we hardly put it that bluntly. He wished a description change without it being publicly posted for an RP reason... but we do have a rule that says they must be publicly posted, and did not feel that the presence of an RP reason permitted the exception to this long-standing policy.

Anyway, how about we hear what people think would make the game more fun? Instead of just saying that it gets less fun? Because the imms DO keep adding things that we anyway feel will make the game more fun, or at least easier and more comfortable to navigate. That's the reason for all the additions, after all.


From: Egami Thursday, May 29, 03:21AM

I would like to add that I never said that I didn't want my new eventual description -not- publicly announced. Sandra told it to me alread and I said "So what?" ... so I think you guys didn't understand my point. Plus, we made a 30min tinyplot on chat for this... so now I hope things are clear.


From: Isamu-Dyson Thursday, May 29, 06:33AM

now if this was a FUN mud, nobody would really care what your desc. was or why you wanted to change it. You have all been mudding so long its like you have forgotten whats fun about mudding, it seems (to me at least) that this has become just a job for some of you.

Nobody wants a job when they are trying to have fun playing a game, right?

--Isamu-Dyson surgeons just want to have fun!

From: Vella Thursday, May 29, 08:38AM

Funny, the main reason most of the people I started playing Legend with left, was because people are unfriendly. However, I do recognise that this is something the imms really can't do much about. I, personally, blame Microsoft lots (eeeuw, win95). It's not something that is restricted to this mud, indeed people are a lot less friendly all over the net now. The main difference between legend now and legend then that is uncool is the strictness; rules, rules, and rules. Why must every item only give a total stat bonus of +5? Why does skilltrees mean we lose the nice advantages of having an old weapon? I, for one, have only been playing two years, one would think that the small advantage i have in having an old weapon should be payment for my loyalty...

Anyway, enough ranting,



From: Isamu-Dyson Thursday, May 29, 09:06AM

well GAIL, to you its all about code anyways, you wouldnt know fun is the FunMonster came up to ya and WHAPPED ya up-side the head!

From: RigorMortis Thursday, May 29, 09:16AM

I notice the people that have been playing here the longest, tend to be the angriest .. I mean it looks like to me, and correct me if im wrong, that when someone disagrees with this place, they are told then to "leave if you dont like it" in my opinion thats not the right way to go

Again i could tuck my tail between my legs and leave, but its not going to happen, i truly enjoy this mud, Providing im not getting snooped etc etc...


Talker to walls ..

From: Rufus Thursday, May 29, 06:27PM

on the 'why must every item be +5 stat max' this rule has been in place for 2 1/2 years, just not always followed.


From: Rufus Thursday, May 29, 06:36PM

Btw - in the next LT issue I have written an article about items being 'in spec' and detailing all the various issues that builders deal with when making objects, hopefully this will answer a few of your questions.


From: Isamu-Dyson Thursday, May 29, 10:45PM

-eyeroll- your changing the subject! :P

From: Mice Friday, May 30, 02:00AM

do you all forget that it is players who are the ones who immort, who come up with the areas because they think it would be fun to have the area (or game, etc.) they are working on? this mud is built by players, not immorts, really.


From: Isamu-Dyson Friday, May 30, 08:37AM

Still missing the point Mice, and that is, this mud is dying a slow death with the Imp's attempts to make it more real then it needs to be. Sacrificing players fun in the process!


From: Rufus Friday, May 30, 08:45AM

Don't point your finger at the imps, it's not their fault alone. I'm as much to blame as any of the immorts, and as any of the immorts will tell you, most decisions come about after LONG periods of discussion.

Just ask gail or me what happens when we make a decision and implement it before discussing it with the staff.


From: Isamu-Dyson Friday, May 30, 10:11AM

dont worry Rufus, i happen to consider you one of the Imp's :P


From: Rufus Friday, May 30, 12:50PM

I'm not.

From: Stella Sunday, June 01, 05:47PM

Now I am just curious. Isamu, you mention that there is no reason to make the mud more real than it needs to be. Well, I agree. But I also feel that it "needs to be" more real. I must admit, I am not sure I understand what Densiva and you mean. Perhaps you should explain what you feel would make the mud more fun, instead of just saying "It is no fun".


From: Merrick Monday, June 02, 04:08AM

I feel that this mud may be losing a bit of the "fun factor, but if it truly is, then there are probably two reasons for it.

1) I've been here a long time, and so the mud has less mystery and hidden excitement than it did when I began. I mean, there's lots for me to still do, just less of it. And so, I begin to feel less fullfilled.

2) Friendliness. This is everyone's responsibility, not imms or players only. At one point the people in the mud were so much into their characters that they were killing me for basically no reason at all. They seemed to forget that this IS just a game, after all, and then several of my good friendships were broken off because of pkill reasons, rather than because we decided we didn't respect the other as people. The whole point is that we can interact with others on a personal level, without worrying about appearence or other superficial things. So, the way you treat others really affects people. That's why for a while I was planning on quitting the mud.

So is all this new code causing trouble? Perhaps, since everyone is "waiting" for skilltrees and have been for what, 2 years now? But, WE can make this mud fun. It shouldn't be the immortals only trying to make the mud more fun. Making the mud more difficult should make the older characters happy, you of all people Densiva should know that, as a level 50'er with basically nothing to do.

Geez this is getting too long I'd better stop now. Anyway, the mud is as fun as we make it. Remember that.

(sorry it's so long)

Merrick, the lone warrior.

From: Rusalka Thursday, June 05, 08:39AM

Some various thoughts on the 'the mud's unfun' and 'imms are mean nasty unfun people' thread:

A) I've been playing Legend for oh, three years now. And every time ANY change went in, there was this kind of grousing. In the past, items in Ireland have changed dramatically, mobs were made harder, quests changed, and so forth. Changes like that have been going on ever since the beginning. And yes, we have had this kind of major combat overhaul before, and yes they put in no-count testing period (I say 'they' as I wasn't an imm then :)

B) There's been various waves of people feeling that things were unfun since I started mudding too. I think there could be serveral reasons for this. One, I think, is simply that things are less exciting gamewise the longer one plays. Things arn't 'new' anymore, and one loses that sense of depth and mystery as one learns the various quests (well, some of us lose that, I myself am still struggling with many of the quests out there :)..but you see what I mean? A certain loss of freshness does occur. Or, and in addition, it might just be that as a mud, we go through various cycles, and this 'unfun' thing could be one of them. Tho if that's the case, I wouldn't expect it to last too long. Which sorta brings me to C)

C) As PR Head, a lot of my job is making things 'fun.' So what kinds of PR things would be fun (ie, activities that can be fresh and exciting no matter how often you've gone through the Tara Dun). I and the rest the PR staff actively welcome your suggestions and comments (ie games, activities, rp stuffs, you name it).

D) Is this 'just a job' for the imms? Are we simply a bunch of clock-punching worker bees? I rather doubt it, especially not after seeing the heated debates that occur over godlist about many of these issues...the imms here have a huge amount of passion for this place (otherwise, we wouldn't be taking it so seriously and thus getting accused of it only being a 'job' rather than, say, a 'hobby')

E) Is realism bad? Well, as a player, I once wrote a post that argued that 'real' systems, whether they were enzyme systems, kin- ship networks, governments, you name it, tended to be terribly complex beasts. And that complexity was kinda cool, as a general rule. Although I don't see us at Legend trying to make it "real," if only because running around killing children in Ireland is not a 'realistic' activity for most of us, or even most folks in the era. But, Legend is a system with its own inner 'realism,' that is, with a certain self consistancy to its own internal rules and workings (I'm using Poul Anderson's definition of fantasy for this). Thus, while it might not be RL realistic to kill small children in Ireland, it is in Legend, and not only that, Legend's own reality demands that those children be more difficult than, say, hedgehogs or mice.

F) One final note. The more complex Legend gets, the more you'll have to discover, and the more 'fresh' it'll all be.


1997 Topic Index