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O.K. fair enough Ptah!

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Posted by Isamu-Dyson on 06/01

lets start with the exp you lose when ya die. lose over 1/2 your exp when ya get killed?? ive always hated that about this mud. this character is very incapable of killing anything 10 levels or more below it i will never level out of my 3.6 million exp to level hole alone. and now you have rigged the mud so that we are forced to group. another sometimes very unfun experiance VIA legendmud! some of you KNOW what im talking about if you have ever gone on a SL run :P -Isamu

From: Rufus Friday, May 30, 08:24AM

If you can't kill a mob 10 levels lower than your level, then perhaps the design of that character was to group? Characters were never supposed to tromp through mobs of their own level like they were candy. A con as a 'perfect match' meant you had a 50/50 chance of surviving. Now if you wish to increase your chances at that set of odds, you fight lower level mobs than your own level. We aren't forcing anyone to group, we're just limiting mobs that were intended as 'group mobs' not being tackled by characters who solely function as an entire group. I honestly never remember a red S, a cape and a set of tights being standard newbie issue gear. The sad fact is, everyone has grown used to qualifying for nearly every skill, being able to act, for example, like a full 3rd circle cause mage, sniper, 100dex fighter, enough stats for the most powerful strength skills and the hp capacity of a true tank. That's (let me count here, it's early in the morning) 5 professions?!?!? Name someone you know who holds a degree in molecular biology, is an expert at martial arts, is qualified to prove the kennedy assassination single bullet theory by example, is an olympic class weight lifter and has the endurance of a small sized heard of elephants? There aren't many anywhere in the real world, and as much as this is a diversion, some semblance of believability must be maintained in the sum of the fantasy along with the fact that designing for such is a severe slam to the side of game balance. There ARE still mobs that people can solo, and if you wish to be a 'jack of all trades' with decent fighting abilities, decent healing abilities, a nice set of hps and some other skills, you can, but you won't be the master swordsman, the top of the line mage, the biggest tank, etc etc etc... where these people lose out (those who focus on a skill set or go in a particular direction) is that they can't adapt to all situations. Speaking from personal experience, I have characters who have endured the 'no sanc/no wells' change, hell I even have morts who endured the original weapon combat system change (yes, we used to only get 1 attack with ANY weapon, no multi-attacks based on stats) that still solo and can average about 2-3 million a night on a good day (that's about 5-6 hours of playing). Frankly, I still see that as rediculous, but we're working on that. (and for those who are asking, I'm not referring to Mandolin who has a bazzillion hps and 100dex and high perc, I'm referring to my much less 'built' characters). No, I don't think, btw, that a lot of this is whining, I understand the fact that players have enjoyed a satisfaction level of playing. But frankly, much of the mud's unheard playerbase often leaves over boredem because things become 'too easy.' I know this all to well because many of those people I happen to have some relationship with OFF the mud. We aren't killing solo'ing, we aren't forcing grouping, if nothing else, we're making grouping worth the effort to do so. And yes, I know that once you've tasted caviar, it's hard to recognize a good square meal. Then again, I don't honestly think there will be as drastic a change as many of you believe. This happened with the combat changes, this happened when clanning first when in, this happened when spells first went in... It's not as bad as it seems. One final note... we are backing up pfiles and we're running a 'test period' to hopefully work out the bugs and make everything work properly and balanced so no one 'class' of characters is any weaker or stronger than another. I guarantee, put a little thought into it, and most will still be able to solo a decent character to 50 in a reasonable amount of time. -Ruf

From: Isamu-Dyson Friday, May 30, 08:48AM

Let me tell you something! a) you never said anything about exp loss, which was the point of this post in the first place. b) with the way you have changed the mud, yes you have left some of us (this character in particular) with no choise but to group for exp. mabe and one point long ago i would have been able to kill mobs of my leve if i used Dex eq, but now thats impossable do to all the mob upgreads and the down grading of dex as a fighting stat. The removal of sanc and the wells made it a fact, that surgeons where need and being a 100 con surgeon, with enough Spirit to meditate, i would have thought this character ideal for the coming changes. it still might be, bu have NEVER been of the habit of building the super characters seen on this mud in the last few years, i would much rather use brains over brawn, and always enjoyed a certain tactial advantage over most of my hack and slash peers. however, in recent months this has been nullified by the changes within th muds structure, for example: changing "snipe" to where its basicaly impos- able to get one. (i will admit that seeing Leech kill 4 hertetics in a row was a bit much) Gails heart was in the right place, but she faild to make the skill worth while. IMHO. if making bash str based, and warcry and headbut con based, what do dex fighters get? flee? maybe need to rethink about prec/dex alittle cuz "sniper" is useless....and the snipers i know in RL are the most leathal killing machines ever devised! i should know, i was one for 4 years. -Isamu

From: Rufus Friday, May 30, 12:34PM

It has been mentioned more than once (on these exact boards even!) that the penalty for death has been in consideration. Weakening dex? yes, strengthening other fighting stats? yes, you neglect to mention that. What do dex fighters get? 100 dex, an additional -35 to AC, doesn't matter now, but will when the changes go in. Kick? At most as far as straight damage, warcry does at most like about 10hps, kick upwards of around 30 or so, and doesn't allow a chance of 'failing' like headbutt or bash do where you take extra damage if you miss. Tumble? Tumble is still dex based and will still have a chance of going off when you are headbutted or bashed. Dodge? sure it's getting downgraded, but that extra bonus to AC applied will help. Strength and con which have virtually zilch redeeming value in the combat venue currently get a boost, dex, although it loses 2 (count them! two!) skills, it still has a hoard of others. The rationale? Str fighters should beat the crap out of you, do a lot of damage to you before you hit them alot. Con fighters? well they have a ton of hps, but don't hit so well and get hit a lot, so over the course of time where their hps get whittled to shreds, they can beat someone down. Dex? Dex will be a lot better at not taking damage. Sure they don't have the hps, sure they don't do the damage, but they don't take as much either. And if you remember when sniper was changed it was billed as (and still is, matter of fact!) a 'temporary' fix, a fix to something that people were complaining about. And how 'useless it is' when snipers with a decent (single handed, mind you) gun can do 40-50 hps (no damcap on gun damage) a round? That's PER ROUND, twice as often as KICK! And with a 10% chance (no, the actual chance did not change!) of making the victim totally stunned for 1 to 2 ticks. And don't knock 'flee'. How many people do you know use the hit-and-run tactic? Ever tried it with 20 dex? The thing is here, you WILL have to use brains. Franlky, seeing as you are 100 con, you'll have access to headbutt (which by your stat set up or so it sounds, you wouldn't have currently without spamming), you are able to heal not only yourself but others, and probably carry a decent amount of hps and gun that'll do some damage. It honestly sounds like you'll get BETTER for these changes. As I said, the exp scale is being looked at. Frankly if it were close to RL if you died, you'd be dead, kaput, that's it. We're not that close to reality, that's for sure. -Ruf

From: Isamu-Dyson Friday, May 30, 12:53PM

this particular character was orginaly meant as a dex/sniper/medic, but mu but i must have fummbled the ball as far as making the stat selections. only a 17 natural con, when i was begiving to level this character i notic that i was only getting 2 or 3 hp a level, over tho i was at my limit on Con eq. I leveled to 15 and desided this character wasnt worth finishing with a total of 77 hitpoints at level 15, i knew he wouldnt last a minate against anything his level.

From: Isamu-Dyson Friday, May 30, 01:02PM

Hmmm.. Sorry, had a crash. Anyways, this character was basicaly rented for 6 months befor, the removal of the sancs and wells, the Mud cried for surg surgeons and i reponded, this character did have a high mind and spr, so was perfectly suited for this type of work. With that said, i would like to disagree with you Rufus on some points. the first being that i didnt mention the strengthening of other types of characters, is there really a need? After all we all know that Con Fighter are going to rule! Its been said a 1000 times, so i didnt feel it was nessiary to mention it. The reson i mention dex fighters in particular is because, in case you haven't noticed, all the characters i play seem to be Dex/perc snipers. I hate to tell you, but dodge, tumble and flee DO NOT make up for the loss of headbut, warcry, and bash. Not to mention the loss of hit points ,do to hp being con based, being very dishardening, the problems that i see with this is...while MOBS are getting stronger, and Dex/Prec fighters are getting weaker they are being totaly rendered uncompetative, or even out-classed. So now we wait to see whos right. In either case it means that the 2000+ Hours that i have on My main character where basicaly spent creating a character that i cant even solo my favorite mobs with. Nothing bums me out more then that! Isamu

From: Lethargio Saturday, May 31, 02:53PM

isamu, instead of whining about your problems before the changes goes in, why not whine after, yes?

From: Gabriella Sunday, June 01, 05:03AM

You know, I sit and read these posts and wonder why everyone is SO upset with the upcoming changes. I don't believe they're going to be THAT big a problem once everything gets worked out and we're through testing it. Isamu says that dex/perc fighters will suck without bash, headbutt and warcry. Um, why? I'm a dex/per fighter and surgeon(without spamming) with a whopping 30 con/str. Do I have headbutt? Yep, but never use it because I usually land on my face. Do I have warcry? Bash? Nope. No need for either. With a simple kick/flee, or shoot/flee, I can usually kill mobs which do alot of damage, with not too much trouble. Me and my 219hp. That's 219hp at level 50, not level 20. Dodge, tumble and kick are a dex fighter's best friends. And probably will be after the 3rd. I have no doubt that there will be problems that will need to be tweeked in the coming weeks, but this WILL be a testing period, as every immort that's posted/talked about it has said. I just can't understand why people are getting so upset about something that they haven't even tried yet. Why not wait until next week after its in, and after you've had a chance to see what its really like, to put in your ideas/requests/complaints? Just my $.02. Gabriella

From: Stella Sunday, June 01, 07:41PM

Isamu, you make it sound like it is a very bad thing that you have to group with others. Well, sometimes it takes several people to accomplish something. It seems quite logical to me. Besides, when grouped, you often learn new people to know, which is also fun :) Of course there will be people who don't get along, but then just don't group with those you don't like. Stella


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