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Posted by Belrix on 07/27

People are complaining again that Legend isn't a newbie friendly place. So what do we as players want to do about this?

I know of specific examples where "Newbie Helpers" left newbies stranded f ar from where they wished to get to (like in the middle of the ocean).

This is NOT a good way to convince people to come back here after a visit Yes true there are groups that usually do go out of the way to help, but maybe we all(unless it really IS in your character to not help) make an ef ffort(God I hate ths new writng system without wraparound).

I don't mean to say we should all leap to the aid of every newbie that wan ders in, but if you happen to see one, and you are not busy, why not say hello, answer some questions, and get them started?

Total time you lose for this is all of maybe 5 minutes.

Like I said you don't have to help them level, get equip, or anything that you don't wish to do, you can just answer a question like...

"How do I hold my lantern?"
"Where do I get food?"
"If you die what happens to your equip?"
"What do skills and practices mean?"

Yeah I know, its not neccessarily gonna be a lot of fun, but if we are so concerned about making Legend a more popular place(maybe you aren't) we should all try and make this minor effort to get the newbie out on the right track, who knows, maybe if you help them it'll make them a member of your RP/Pkill clan??

Okay, I apologise for the longwindedness of this letter, but it needed to be said, we go through this discussion once every few months so let's see what come out of it this time.


From: Mondain Friday, July 11, 09:01PM

Legendmud was the first mud I ever tried, and I can remember when I was a true newbie here.... I asked lots of questions.. and got lots of answers, but I dont remember begging for xp and eq like some newbies today do. All I ever will do for a newbie is answer questions, the mud is here for you to play, not for others to play for you. So yes, I think people should answer all questions for newbies, but not to be expected to help them.

just my 2 cents..

From: Fatale Friday, July 11, 10:01PM

I always try to help new players. Not just because I'm being 'forced' to, on contrary to the popular belief. I never was really forced to. Along the way, I came to enjoy being able to help people who really needed it. I just needed a kick in the butt to be nicer, attitude wise.

Like Beltrix's post says, you might think that helping a newbie, just answering questions, can be a drag. Wrong, it's actually kind of fun and you get a warm glow knowing you're helping someone rather than being a jerk to them like everyone else is.

Most REAL newbies don't expect people to get them gear or level them unless the first person that helped them did that. Giving newbies gear and levels on a silver platter only encourages them to be demanding and expect to be catered to. Giving them -AC only gear is a nice thing, though, and since it can be bought in hometowns, they can easily replace it rather than complaining on chat/auction/info when they get slaughtered or DT, since they have NO idea where it came from. People really shouldn't expect to not be bothered by newbies they 'helped' in this way once they lose all their nice gear. IMHO, newbies only 'demand' things when they don't know where to get it or can't get it themselves. Instead of handing them stuff, tell them good places to buy stuff. Let them know where stat gear is often sold so they can get it themselves.

Heck, part of the reason I mud anymore is to talk to newbies. The attitude of some mid-older players [the ones that started around 6 months or so after I did] stinks. I believe these are the people who grew up on the mud expecting people to help them just because they need it, and now that no one helps them whenever they demand it, they take out their frusteration on new players asking for simple help. [Of course, not everyone is like that, but darn well most of them are] Basically, if you can't help or don't have something nice to say to a newbie, shut up.

From: Lethargio Saturday, July 12, 03:37PM

I agree that most 'real' newbies don't ask for stat equipment and such, but what happens when there are spells that they need to learn?

my first char is me, and I started a new mage char. and I pratically did everything myself until I had to learn a word. The word had a stat requirement. And everyone knows that it is practically impossible for a newbie to get stat gear (for the most part) so I reluctantly asked if I could borrow the gear for a minute. Of course, no one would even bother to help, I saw someone right near the inn and had a lot of the gear, but didn't respond. I even SAID it was for a spell, but nonetheless they still didn't let me borrow. I ended up having to pick up gear that other people discarded :P

anyway, my point is that sometimes even REAL newbies might need some gear


From: Lethargio Saturday, July 12, 03:45PM

and in response to Belrix:

I think that most people are aware of what they can do to help, but they either are too lazy, or just plain don't care. I didn't really care about newbies a while ago, but I sort of sympathized with the newbies when they ask for a simple question or request, and get ignored constantly.

From: Kinch Sunday, July 27, 07:41AM

Firstly, I'd like to state my position in all this...then offer a suggestion.

This is my first mud, and my first character. As a newbie, I met some very unhelpful older players, and some very helpful ones. Now that I'm a little more experienced, I get requests for help from newer players...some of whom are extrememely rude/demanding, some of whom are genuinely polite and grateful for any assistance. Now that I have some experience, I give advice freely, help with corpse retrievals when it's in my power to do so, and occasionally help with eq or quests (when asked nicely).

I'm a firm believer in treating others as I would expect to be treated, and hope that some of this rubs off.

I recall that as a newbie, I was almost embarrassed for help on how to buy things, eat things, use things, talk to people etc and was extremely frustrated that I could not figure it out for myself. (Maybe I'm just slow on the uptake).

My suggestion is that innkeepers should respond to characters arriving at the inn in a similar way to Tika in Tara.

If the innkeeper said "Ask me for help if you need anything." the newbie could then ask the innkeeper "help" and the innkeeper could respond by listing a few broad areas... "buying things", "equipment", "talking to people" and so on. The newbie could then "drill down" to the specific area he/she needs help with.

Essentially, the innkeeper would be providing the text of the normal help files in a conversational form.

This would help newbies when there are no friendly older players around...or when they are still grappling with how to talk to people and use info...and simultaneously provide them with one of their first opportunities to interact with the mud and feel they were getting somewhere. (I love it when I can get a mob to talk to me!)

I suspect that setting this up would not be particularly difficult coding-wise, just time-consuming.

I'd be interested in feedback on this...while it won't address concerns about player attitudes, it might be a step in the right direction towards making the mud intrinsically newbie-friendly.



PS Yeah, I know, I know, I'm verbose at the best of times.


1997 Topic Index