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Posted by Dial on 07/21

Hello all, long time no see. I want to comment on some of the things that were said about UGA people (people who mud from the University of Georgia) and the relationship that those players have with the mud.

UGA people make up a big part of the mud, a bigger part than most people think. At any time, the number of UGA players range from 1 (before I arrived) to about 10 (when we all got bored). If you know a Georgia person, you can certainly verify that in most part they are 1) nice 2) generally polite 3)helpful 4)involved and 5) concerned about the mud and its future (contrary to some mortals opinions). We have characters that are healers and hepers while some are murderers and cultists. Basically, we are well-rounded and fun. (No player fits all of these descriptions but almost every UGA player fits several of them.)

As for the immort/UGA conflict, I think the biggest obstacle to mutual agreement is the relationship between the UGA people and the immortals. These relationships range from getting along with most of the immortals to liking only one. These feelings have developed over the last two years in which most of us have had many interactions with the immorts. Much of the animosity from our perspective eminates from events that have occurred repeatedly.

Most all players have at least one "Dang, I hate , he/she accused me of and I wasn't even doing it." After about the 2nd or 3rd week of us mudding together, it was made very clear to the immorts that we are a big group (especially to Flagg, who had to deal with us logging in Bill1, Bill2, etc. all at the same time.:)) and yet every single one of us has been accused of multi-playing.

Now, I understand that it's possible for us to simply lie and say "no, I'm sitting next to ." If they feel that is incorrect info, then they have the right to check up on it. However, once we say that, and they check it out, we should not be harassed and have our honesty continually challenged. For example, I was helping someone sitting right next to me level in London when an immortal appeared and asked me if I was multi-playing. I was still quite new to the game but still aware enough to recognize that it was illegal to multi-play. Politely, I said that I was not multi-playing and that, in fact, the person I was leveling was sitting right next to me in the computer lab. The response I got was something like, "I think you are cheating Dial and if I catch you I'll delete you in a heartbeat." Now for an immort that knew me when he was a mortal, and knew that we play as a group, to say something like that is outrageous. And the truth is that I'm not the exception. Every one of us has stories of immortals badgering us, being rude, and being dishonest.

In an append to some other note, a statement was made about holding an unfair bias against UGA players when they tried to immort. I believe that this is generally true, with good and bad reasons behind it.

The good reasons are that we live in a close-knit community and as friends it would make it hard for a person to stay impartial. However, most of the immortals live in sort of a group, a sort of clique, if you want to call it (the Texas gang). The general feeling that myself and some of the other UGA players have gotten when talking to imorts is that we shouldn't even bother to apply because we won't get in. You can call it paranoia if you like but remember that we have had at least one person try to immort every round for the last two years. Every time we get back a leter explaining what was wrong with our application and after two years of attempting to immort, I am fairly confident that this next round will definitely have a strong UGA force in the immortal staff (GO DANNY!).

In another note, there was also a mention to Particleman. I, as do most of the UGA people, believe that he is doing an amazing job. Many a Saturday morning I have seen a newbie cry for help, and as all the other immorts are asleep, P-man comes to their aid. My point is that, yes, Particleman did something wrong and it ended up that he has made a great immortal.


This post was not meant to offend anyone. If it did then respond straight to me. The opinions expressed here do not represent all UGA players and should not be held against them if you disagree with something here.

Thank you-

Dial "ooooh, spooky....I'm talking from the grave"

From: ParticleMan Sunday, July 20, 04:41PM

I figured I'd respond to this post. I'm not an admin immort, and I don't have all the cool commands they do, but I would like to state how misunderstandings can happen. The system channel that all immorts have, shows when people log on and log off. It will also show when players log on from the same IP address. What I do when I see that is to take a look and see where both the players are. If they are in the same room I'll stop and see if they pass equipment back and forth, or if they go thier seperate ways. As I stated before, I don't have all the cool commands that admins do, so I'm limited at what I can watch. Personally I don't keep up on the IP's of all the labs, as its really not my position to. So if there are 2 players with the same IP running around together I'd get suspicious. I can't remember if I've ever accused a UGA player of multi-playing, heck, I don't know most of the UGA players. If there are no admins immorts on, I would stop and ask if they were multi-playing. So to summarize what I've just written, it is easy for us to make mistakes, we are after all human in R/L. I do know that in the past we have had problems with some of the UGA players, so maybe we are paying a little more attention to the UGA players than others, I don't know. I do know that no one has ever told me to pay special attention to . If you were accused wrongly of multi-playing in the past hopefully this will help to explain how and why this might have happened.

Unfortunately there is no easy fix for this problem short of all players who play in labs send in all the characters they play, or to never group or be around another player from the same lab. I hope that this clears all this up a little.


From: Starbiter Sunday, July 20, 06:41PM

I agree with particleman, I thought it was made clear that we completely understand that when an immort checks our adresses or see's us passing equipment to each other then it's suspicious, but when we tell them that we are sitting next to each other and they are rude and obnoxious like many times in the past, then it gets upsetng (sorry thought that was a point that was made pretty clear in the actual text -shrug-)

From: Jen-Creature Sunday, July 20, 06:41PM

well, I have pros and cons on this one. On the positive side, I rented out JC once and brought on Mistral. The next thing I knew I had a tell from Petal telling me that I should remember to rent out JC before bringing on another char. Petal said it very politely, so pardon me for paraphrasing. Petal assumed I went dropped link on JC ooc and then brought in Mistral.

I explained that I rented out JC, but just to check, I then rented Mistral and brought JC back on. When I logged JC on, I got the "Jen-Creature has entered the game" message instead of "Reconnecting, already playing." I explained this to Petal, and we concluded it was just some freak circumstance. Petal was VERY gracious to me and never accusatory. She explained that she gets a message when two chars are on from the same site, and she then checks out the situation. She knew that I played both chars (and I knew that she knew =P), so she wanted to find out what was going on. I commend her for doing her job, and I commend her yet again for at least helping me find out what happened instead of flipping out. (Also when I checked the who list, only Mistral was listed). I think she handled the situation admirably.

On the negative side, I know that the clark.net players used to get accused of multiplaying a lot. Some of them did cheat using other techniques, but I know for a fact that a few of them exist, as I met them in rl. In this, I can sympathize with the UGA players.

From: Joachim Sunday, July 20, 06:58PM

the only problem of course, is that cheaters rarely admit to cheating, so if an immort -does- feel that someone is cheating, it will generally not totally allay their suspicions to just say "I'm innocent", and expecting it to pretty much provides an absolute defense to cheaters.

So I think a verbal warning that you're still under suspicion is not totally out of line in such circumstances.

Not that this in any way releases the imm involved from the requirement of being polite.

From: Rufus Sunday, July 20, 07:59PM

A bit about the duplicate IP and Jen-Creature's situation... If you rent out and do not wait for the mud to disconnect you after hitting '0' sometimes, especially with zmud and gmud, you remain online at the menu. It will show a duplicate IP address if you try to log on another character. Generally this can be discounted by a quick check of the who list for both characters.

As for the UGA people, I think I know two, and I don't think I've ever encountered any of them in a situation of accusation of multiplaying (which, btw, is darn nearly impossible to catch, save for those few incidents where they outright admit it to a player or an imm).

I'm glad to see such a strong standing from a single group of people. I was, however, unaware of any imm/uga conflict and would like to dispel, at least from my position, any ideas that there may be conflict based solely upon where you log on from. Coming from Washington State University, where we had 13 players or more at one point and only a single unix machine at the entire college, I can completely understand being falsely accused of multiplaying.

If it so comes to pass that you are in a situation where an immortal is confronting you about such, you can take a few actions to speed the inquiry and help clear things up.

First off, don't get offended, they're only doing their job. They should approach you with respect, trying to get at the bottom of things rather than accusing outright. They are there to find out exactly what's going on, if for no other reason than to keep your playing as immort- intervention free as possible, so the situation won't come up again. Second, don't be rude. This is often (and quite often, a true) tell tale sign that there IS something illegal. You don't like your playing interrupted. That is understandable, but understand that they have a job to do as well, and the faster things go, the sooner you get to play and the sooner they're no longer in your face and you can go about your business. Third, find out why the immort is asking these questions. It is in your right to know why they're asking you, but keep in mind, if it is by tip of another player, that player's character or any info about that player will not be given. Usually a quick query will come up with 'we saw you with a duplicate IP address' and that will generally lead the conversation in the proper direction. If the immortal is rude, you have proper recourse of action, which is an appeal with the department head or the imps, and you are well within your right to take these actions and are encouraged to do so.

People who do really cheat fall into three categories. The first is those who do not know the rules. They are likely to, once made aware, to cease. The second are those who admit they are, and hone up, taking their punishment. The third group are those who get angry when they get caught, deny it, and get even angrier when they are proven and punished. Sad to say, the largest groups are the first and third. If you are not part of any of these groups, however, you have the right to be treated honestly.

Another suggestion, if two of you ARE accused, it really looks bad if one goes afk all of a sudden, or a single person does all the talking. Just be polite, expect a polite inquiry, and by god, if you ARE in a situation that you are cheating, hone up to it, take the punishment (especially if its a first offense, it's almost always just a warning) rather than setting up a situation that could mean a more severe punishment later or a conflict between you and the morts. er, imms, sorry.

Anyway, just some suggestions,


From: Ptah Sunday, July 20, 09:34PM

I have been told by UGA players themselves that some UGA players have the character passwords to characters other than their own, that the get them again even if they are changed, and that they cannot control who logs into their character. :P Add that to the mix.


From: Jen-Creature Sunday, July 20, 10:08PM

-nod- rufus which is why I again want to state that I felt Petal handled my situation extremely well. She never took a hostile position. Instead, she tried to get to the bottom of things as effectively as possible.


From: Belrix Sunday, July 20, 10:08PM

Okie I know this is gonna sound harsh, but if you feel that you are never get a fair shake and are always getting picked on

Why not quit? Or log everyone in, with actualy players behind the address and talk with the Imms.

I know of other people who have felt that they are being denied Immhood

I dunno, if you feel abused, do something about it but don't be stupid in other words if you are multi-playing Admit it and apologise

Makes things a lot less ugly


1997 Topic Index