Discussion Index


1997 Topic Index

Posted by Haul on 11/20

I'm not sure what the changes (new reqs) were based on, but as a player whose 3 chars (out of 4) were effected by the change (that is, 2 of those chars lost expert, 1 of them lost advanced), i think the change was rather unfair to those chars that did away with hunt/magic... 25 is awfully high-even higher than the mind required for hunt/pick/etc., and i think that's rather unreasonable. If anything, instead of mind, perc could have been added, or even spirit, but not mind.

WHat is the logic behind that anyway? we have to remember to swing fast?

Maybe i wasn't around here often enough lately, but that's one change that seems to go against everything that happened so far--try to diversify the pkill community, instead of making almost everyone dex/mind. with the mind requirement, a pkill-safe mind would be 35 for non-mages. THat's an awful lot considering you only need so much for armslore, disarm, and only a fraction more to be self-sufficient (aid)...

Heck, with that kind of a requirement, we'll again come back to mages or bust...

From: Lethargio Monday, November 17, 09:26PM

Well, i have 50 nat mind as a surgeon, and I couldn't really care about this, but I think its because if the imms look at some warrior's stats, you'd probably see very low mind stats.

In addition to being able to ditch spr (few exceptions), they are also able to ignore getting mind eq also. Mages on the other hand, have to balance all stats. I'm not a mage, but being a surgeon I know its pretty annoying trying to get the right eq for the right slot.

I agree that you're mad about needing 35 mind to protect yourself against idiocy, and I also feel that mages seem a bit strong too (especially cause ones)

If it makes you feel any better, when the gradual stats thing comes out, a lot of spam mages and surgeons will be reasonably messed up (that includ es me though :P)


From: Aeolus Monday, November 17, 09:24PM

hey haul :)

I think heres what the imms thought was the logic of the mind req... Apparrently, it takes some brains in order to be able to devise fighting tactics and to best your opponnent...

Well... at least its been brought down from 30 mind :)

Anyways... I was thinking about the mind req... and I realized something....

I'm a fighter RL... I'm versed in Shao-Lin, Tien-Shin Pai form of martial arts. There, you learn bare-handed martial arts, and also weapon-based.. such as the spear, the sword, and also a heavy bamboo stick which has a weight on the end. Well... there... the general feel is that you fight better by practicing... not by knowing... the more you try to think while you fight, the worse you will be against one who can counter, attack, and execute moves "naturally."

When you fight, you are thought to have one mind, one body... where your mind naturally responds to some form of attack. This, I think is more perc based if you convert it to Legend. It also takes time to be able to naturally "counter" a form of offensive (be it just a simple punch)....

In Legend, this is already accounted for by the lvl at which you can actually learn advanced,expert...

My last point is, it takes a single, clear "soul" or feel in your body to fight properly...

My friend once said, "fight with a cause... people who just fight will lose." This I guess can be converted to spr in Legend sense.

Thus... I come to my point after a rambling...

I believe that the mind req should be lowered for fighters... say around 20 or so... while there should be similar (reasonable) perc,spr requirements. (nothing over 30 =P)

That way, people are forced to account for this (like the mages, who have to deal with spr, perc,con). :) and it will be really hard to attain 3 100s in a char :) Anyways... just my thought...

-- Aeolus

From: Zelda Thursday, November 20, 09:07AM

I don't have an opinion on which is the more realistic stat to choose for a mind requirement.

But as far as balance goes, I just don't understand how anyone can say that 25 is high when 3rd circle mages gave MUCH higher requirements than that in stats other than mind/spirit to use their words.

hmmmm I think my first sentence should be 'which stat to choose for a new requirement :)

Anyway, the question is, whether fighters and mages are balanced or not, not how many characters have been affected or how severely. Mages cannot get 3 100 stats or even close and still use 3rd circle words. How many extra skills do fighters need from a 3rd stat, in order to be balanced with mages? If they really need 3 very high stats, then in my opinion there is something wrong with the skills themselves. It should not be possible for one type of character to get everything, it should be a trade-off.

And yes, it is incredibly hard to build a mage character due to all the requirements, while with 2/3 stats being regarded as 'useless' to a straight fighter type, you can just look for gear with negatives in those stats and in effect get 'out of spec' gear (ie more than +5 in a slot if you don't need the -stat). I am a (still) low level cause mage, (mage), but have a str/con/dex fighter right now and there is no comparison as far as ease of building these characters.

And if the requirement is lower than for hung/pick lock etc then they requirement for those should be raised =P. hunt that is Anyway, the types should be balanced, or you will get zillions of str/con/dex fighters as well as mages running around and only have two types again (those and mages). Some people might think it isn't but I haven't heard anyone produce a good argument like that yet, only people saying the change has affected them, as though this means it is bad (which it doesn't).



1997 Topic Index