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A minute of your time please

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Posted by Sho on 02/12

I'm back whining about con versus dex!


And i got some stuff to back it up

The theoretical advantages of being dex is that

1. I can flee and attack
2. I have higher ac
3. I have a couple new dodging techniques
4. I have a natural higher hit roll
If this was true... i would not be complaining

ac well thats good and all, and dodging well i can never tell if im dodging in pkill but..... fleeing and hitting is all bs

sure i can flee... but so can the other guy WHENEVER HE LIKES ie my fight against "player x" where i blinded him and he crashed into a mob... was kicking his butt because he couldn't flee but right when he does get away and i jump him... he always flees from me with 0 failures.... something is definitely wrong there

now on hitting... i KNOW and many can vouch for me that con fighters are getting more attacks in then they should... and no i was not siting no my ac was not low, and no they themselves do not have more than a 5 hit roll.. but even though they still get there 11 attacks in...

now headbutts are cool and although i believe they are way too good to be a one stat special (con) i won't complain...

but stunning headbutts is another thing...

when ever i get headbutted... i do not absorb the first attacks stunned and immediately pop out... instead i get two wait another whole round... and these aren't even those worse for wear ones... which are like 3 rounds thats alright although it makes other stuff look pathetic ie my knock out choke on "player x"... where i knocked him out and he snaped out of it in the next round INSTANTLY.... it was worthless and these worse for wear stuns too where people are snapping out of them in one round also.... hmmmm

i hope that there is something that can be done so that when someone gets a worse for wear stun, it last for a 2 round Minimum.. but no more than 3 in general i don't like the length para backstabs last... and para warcrie but that just sucks for me... and i don't believe they should be changed actually... getting a para warcry is like frequent as getting a para choke in some cases... so thus they last as long as a choke... which is not that long... backstabs are alright cause they happen less frequently... but chokes, warcries, headbutts, and stuns must be changed

this is not just to annoy people... im just trying to show some logic here and make pkill more logical.... i hope many of you know or have seen this happen in pkill... not against mobs... but for pkill and will agree with me... but if not show me where im flawed

thanks for your time

From: Nosferatu Wednesday, January 21, 05:39PM

Okay...heres my two cents, after fighting Asmodean and others... We know that Asmo is a con mage, he declared it, no doubt...and I know for a fact that he cant have the best dex in the world because of the stat requirements for mages, I'm betting that his dex isnt that great, okay? Yet when fighting a 100 con mage with 100 mind prolly he gets all his atta attacks in on me, period. There is something wrong here if people dont need dex to have all their attacks. Also, when fighting, every time he stood up he was able to flee 100% of the time. Whats the point of dex in pkill anyways? The main advantage of fleeing and getting all your atta attacks is screwed up. If you are going to let con pkillers get all their attacks in then this system is biased. Someone seriously needs to sit down and look at the problems that occuring in pkill and how certain pkillers are getting away with the mistakes of these oversights.

From: Asmodean Wednesday, January 21, 08:38PM

Since i'm the "player x" in both of these, i thought i'd take a minute to comment. #1: I'm not what i seem. You all assume i'm 100/100, but do you really know? #2: I'll tell ya up front, i have 47 dex usually and 1 growl....16 hitroll. Is this enough to constitute me hitting alot, i don't know. #3: I fled in rooms with alot of exits man. Fleeing is not just based on dex, but on dex and the number of exits in the room. The rooms i fled from had like 3 and 4 exits. And #4: Yea you were rocking me when you blinded me Sho, because there was one exit out of the stag and for some reason,i failed about 15 or 20 times. Maybe blind has an effect on fleeing, i really don't know, but its not like I just "poof" fled when i wanted. I'm not saying that were balanced, but Sho, you have to be one of the best matches i've ever had, and your dex. Its not so much your stats, but how you use them...My own opionon is that really con/mind is the easy way out with the easiest and most obvious strategys. The others have great strategys, if not better, just a bit mor hidden and it might take you awhile to uncover them.

Take Sho for example, he lasts along time cuz he does different stuff. He trys something new almost every fight i fight him. Good call, and let the good times roll...

-Asmodean, the guy that is destined to never hit 100 mil....

From: Mandrake Wednesday, January 21, 11:26PM

con fighters aren't getting all their attacks in.. when you see 12/12, it's really more like 6/12.

From: Lagmonster Thursday, January 22, 01:36AM

That hitroll thing is really screwed up anyway. my dex/perc has 39 (48 all agg) hitroll, and lo and behold, he can't get 12/12 against a stunned mob. WOW. Dodge works nicely, and if you tried to just tank a lvl 50 mob with a dex fighter, you'll see that Wood-eater, Diancecht, and all those meanies miss like every 2 rounds or so.

More on hitroll... what's the purpose of hitroll if lvl has so much a factor in calculating it? I have been lvling a newbie, and on a para warc, he can't get one hit in against a cappie with 20ish hitroll, and about 3 lvls later, he starts getting about 3 attacks in. No stat change (too busy lvling to wait for eq and stuff) and not even a change in strategy. On parry/block, it's kinda pointless to wield a heavy weapon, it seems. On paper, yeah, we get more max dam/avg dam per round, but they only need to parry one of those and our damage for that round is like 1/5 or 1/4... so much for raging/bash damage when they simply dodge one attack and kill damroll benefits.

As far as flee goes, you can flee reliably with 20 dex if there are 5 exits, and you'll probably need about 10-15 more for 4 exits, maybe about 50-60ish for 3 exits... dex being able to flee only comes in handy in 1-exit rooms, or if you also have perc, in rooms with those hidden exit thingies.

Dex seems to have been slightly underpowered on its own, but it's still better than just having strength, anyway...

As far as ac goes... with an armor spell, any con mage can get -100ac (my 20dex mage has -85, so dodge-enabled mages should easily reach that :P) oops, make that any cause mage, but then again they can gain 10str (3damroll) or 5 hitroll just as easily... where the hell am i going with this append.

oh yeah. str still sucks, tho not as badly :P

From: Rufus Thursday, January 22, 07:52AM

Okay, here's how hitroll works...

At level 1, you are 76% likely to hit a 100ac mob with 0 hitroll.

At level 26, you are 50% likely to hit a 0 ac mob with 0 hitroll.

At level 50, you are 26% likely to hit a -100 ac mob with 0 hitroll.

At any level, at any position your victim might be in, etc, there is ALWAYS (no exceptions) a 5% chance of missing. There is also a 5% chance of automatically hitting.

For a level 1 character, their chance to hit a lvl 50 mob is about -17% not considering the 5% auto-hit bonus. That means they need at least 22 hitroll to have at least an equal chance to hit a lvl 50 mob. At stunned, They would still need approximately 11 hitroll to hit 5 times out of every 100 swings.

If you take three equal fighters, and set them flopping against each other (assume 30 stats in 2 fight skills, and 100 in the other) The dex fighter is twice as likely to hit as the other two, str fighters do twice as much damage, and con fighters last about twice as long.

As to pkill and how many shots hit, the line is really erraneous, because 'blocked' shots are seen as 'hits'. A blocked shot is defined as a shot that strikes armor but does no damage to the player.

How this is calculated is versus a 'naked' ac. That is no armor class bonuses by items, so it's the character's modified dexterity, modified perception (because +stat gear still counts), detracted from 100. At best (100 in each) this comes out to about 40 ac, and a level 50 with 0 hitroll has greater than a 100% chance of hitting that. Many of those shots that show up as 'hits' are merely absorbed by your armor, sometimes doing damage to it, sometimes not.


From: Rufus Thursday, January 22, 08:06AM

As for fleeing, there is no difference in calculation if you're fleeing in pkill than at any other time. As asmodean said, # of exits is very crucial to that. Basically doubling your chances of fleeing each exit that's added (ever see a dex fighter fail a flee in a room with 6 exits?).

and no, blindness doesn't have an affect on fleeing. -Ruf

From: Sho Friday, January 23, 01:57PM

arghh can't say anything about that... sigh!

thanks rufus

From: Mystbane Thursday, February 12, 02:44AM

i never walked in anyone doing anything more than groping and stuff, but most ppl i know are busy flaming each other over chat and whining about imbalance too much to enjoy or indulge in mud sex or anything that doesn't give them an ego boost of some sort.. if you get an ego boost out of mud sex, well... don't know what to say without offending them :)


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