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Spell Damage

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Posted by Acestes on 01/30

I'm pretty sure this has been discussed before, but anyway. With the way things are now (stats being balanced etc), it seems like spell damage has been left unbalanced. It doesn't make sense that some powerful spells can do the same amount of damage to a con fighter, as it does to a non-con fighter. Say the spell did 50 damage, a high level con fighter with around 550hps won't miss the 50hps much, whereas a a high level non-con fighter, with say, around 300hps, will. All it takes is 6 of those spells, and the person is reduced to 0hps. Then also take into account the damage done in combat, and its reduced to 4 or 5 spells required to kill them. This is just an example, actual spell damage for some spells is considerably higher. Spell damage doesn't take into account that say, a dex person has their advantages by being able to dodge/parry attacks, and also have a greater hitroll, whereas melee combat does. Spell damage totally bypasses this. A possible solution would be to take off a percentage of the victim's total hitpoints (and i'm sure this has been suggested in the past), with a min/max set as usual. I just want to know what's going on with this, if it's been achknowledged, ignored, accepted or what. To me it seems out of whack. Acestes

From: Jehovah Sunday, January 11, 02:07PM

Well.. so far I'd say that having spell damage do the same damage to each person kind of makes sense. First of all, making spells deal more damage to con fighters than non-con fighters defeats the purpose of going con for the hps. I mean, sure it'd be great mages end up doing more damage, but it really doesn't make much sense IMHO.

If anything, con fighters would be less suceptible to magical attacks such as gust of wind, firestorm or immol. because of their high constitution.

Anyways... all in all... I think these are details that are more aimed towards making Legend more realistic, and until we can actually figure out how to "balance out" the different fight-stats, trying to fiddle with magic would throw us into further confusion...

) just my two cents -- Jehovah

From: Madison Sunday, January 11, 03:36PM

Maybe instead of varying the amount of damage the spell itself does there could be someway for high dex and perc fighters to avoid some of the damage. It could be reasoned that they saw the mage start casting so they rolled off to the side, thereby reducing the damage taken by some amount. Of course it wouldn't make much sense to avoid area affect spells like immolate, unless there were terrain considerations.

But I ramble, I think you get the gist of my statement.


From: Psytrac Sunday, January 11, 08:11PM

how about making a skill, say, counterstrike, that will prevent a mage from casting a spell? it would be more a preemptive strike, say, of 3 round skill delay, that, if typed a round (or at the same round) a mage casts a spell, will, either dodge the spell, and or do more damage depending on dex/mind (casters mind, defenders dex) comparison?

From: FairfaxII Tuesday, January 13, 08:41AM

I thought it was possible to dodge stuns now.. arguably the most commonly used offensive spell... As Jehovah said, if damage done was based on a percentage of hps, then there will be no point whatsover in having high hps.. The idea of having more hps is so you last longer in a fight.

Just my thoughts

Fairfax the Second

From: Siachet Tuesday, January 13, 09:00PM

I think the point is that con fighters are supposed to be able to take mor more damage, in exchange for doing less damage (not as much hitroll) and being hit harder (less ac, no dodge etc) so that it balances out. This applies to weapon damage and some fighting skills where there is a chance of tumbling. However, magic is not affected by ac and hitroll, so it bypas all of this. A con mage against a dex mage would be balanced if both just used fighting skills (although I'm not sure that would be true either, unl the dex mage used kick/flee), but once magic is added its hard to see how they are balanced because dex gives no defence against spells while tankin ability does, so dex have no increased damage or avoidance to compensate for their lack of hps.

I know the answer will be, dex have to use kick/flee to compensate. That is true of straight dex fighters too, but still dex gives some advantages while actually in combat (hitroll, ac, dodge, tumble) for fighting skills not for magic. And I do wonder if this is going to be a bigger problem if the kick/flee gets ironed out through fixing the attack priority too.


From: TerrorSpawn Wednesday, January 14, 07:02AM

I don't see where you people keep coming up with the idea that if you're a dex fighter, you HAVE to kick/flee to kill anything. I'm a dex fighter, with no other stats above 60, and I haven't used that tactic for over a year now, because I found out that I can do better without it, especially under the new fight system.


From: Siachet Wednesday, January 14, 10:36AM

I don't know where anybody would come up with the idea that if you're a dex fighter you have to kick/flee to kill anything either, TerrorSpawn. In fact, I don't know which people you are referring to, because I have never heard a dex fighter suggest such a thing, myself. This is the answer that non-dex fighters usually post when a possible imbalance in the game like the one above is pointed out.

I have heard it time and time again, 'stop complaining, your a dex fighter, use kick/flee' etc when the issue of balance is discussed. The issue of balance has nothing to do with whether dex can or cannot kill things without using this technique.


From: Psytrac Wednesday, January 14, 01:54PM

kick/flee just happens to be a very powerful skilltactic) to use, especially against mobs that dare too alert to be bs'd

it does tons of damage, and works too well against even autohunting mobs, since the mob can't chase you b4 the skill delay runs out...

as far as being able to dodge more goes, i think it's not really true.. i have 100dex/[erc and nearly 100 ac, and i am getting whacked just as much as my con fighter (who happesns to have 100 dex, but not the perc)

in my experience, it takes nearly forever to runkill something with 600 hp ust tanking it with a 100 dex..

but what's worse is str fighters..

i dont think it does nearly as much damage to make up for lacking hps AND the ability to dodge. i mean, they should to 3 times as much than a dex/con warrior, but i seriously doubt that is the case, esecially when bash does only 33% more damage, where as both con and dex have stun skills that are 100% (i think)

From: Acestes Wednesday, January 14, 10:15PM

-poke subject- discuss spell damage, make new threads if you wish to debate the inadequacies of other things.

From: Kari Thursday, January 15, 05:44AM

really acestes, I still the the verdict is 'out' on whether what you have to say or anyone else really are 'inadequacies.'

I have characters ranging from con-mind mages to dex/perc thieves to mixtures of all different types. The only thing the new fight system has done has evened all their abilities so that they can't fight the same things the same way, but they all stand an equal chance of gaining exp at about the same rate.

As far as tempering damage based on con, what's the point in having more con? Spells are the one exception to the 'hitroll/ damroll/ac/number of attacks/damage' routine and in order to obtain high proficiency in those, the person casting them must give up at least one if not more of the 'standard' fight skills and sacrifice at least some hitroll/damroll or hp to gain the advantages of a mage.

Sure, mages still probably do have at least one fighting stat, but they don't have two and one high third stat. Pushing mind and con is easy, pushing mind and dex is relatively easy, pushing both of those and another stat while keeping enough other stats to walk around, carry bandage rolls, and keep a full range of spells is near impossible.

Sure they do a lot of damage, however if spells miss (as in, if you walk out of the room after they press enter, before the spell goes through) they're out mana, sometimes quite a bit. And a mage's resources are finite. Unlike a con/dex/strength/etc fighter, whose ability is measured only in how long they can withstand damage, which is finite PLUS how many other bonuses they have (wide range of fighting skills, high hitroll and/or damroll) that are not exhaustible.


From: Psytrac Friday, January 30, 10:41PM

You can ask for help, but for me, dropping a tell rarely cuts it.

Neither does the channels really motivate me, since i feel as if i am being summoned or something (just me, perhaps). Some of us, who have nothing better to do, will (and do) spend most of our on-line time either in Tara or Sherwood, and other inns and hometowns.

The commands "say" and "yell" are best in my opinion to ask for help, as the ones that can hear you are also very nearby, and most of us, unless we are running away from something/one or have other pressing matters, will be glad to help.

But do remember, none of us help newbies for a living (though some may live to help newbies :P) and it's always US doing you a favor when we help, not the other way around. Besides, take some time to learn things yourself... things are best remembered that way.



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