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Imms and their PK enabled alts

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Posted by Himura on 04/18

Although the title of this message may sound a bit accusing, it is not meant to be so.

I know that imms can't be GM of a clan, and although i understand where this is coming from, it seems to me that imms are, in most cases, online more often than mortals, and be actually better for a clan if imms were at least given the option to head a clan.

On another note, i have also noticed that one of the clans had a rather disproportionate number of imm-alts involved.

I know clanned business has a tendency to run ooc and thus clans become social cliques, but i think imms should make an effort, at least, not to be concentrated into one clan. I think it would make a healthier atmosphere if the imms were actually highly involved and active members of opposing clans, and add their 2 cents in RP pk, and have a more balanced view of the pk scene, rather than being concentrated into a clan or two.

Besides, having a clan with that many imm-alts makes it so much easier to place blame on imm-partialism (note two m's, not one) and make this place rather antagonistic for pk enabled chars that think they got cheated from a recent systems change, eq change, and what not.

It is also probably useful to have somebody who could give some insight as to what is being considered and such to involved chars, so that players don't go around making assumptions and believing in conspiracy theories.

Just something to think about, i guess.

From: Z'ha'dum Tuesday, April 14, 12:00AM

Does the phrase 'paranoid delusional' mean anything to you?


Empty yet radiantly bright, dark thought ended.

From: Arsene Tuesday, April 14, 02:01AM

he did have a point.

maybe someone was afraid to say it, but he didnt say anything untrue, except he forgot being an imm is as much a social circle as a clan.

From: Lori Tuesday, April 14, 02:18AM

I pretty much have to agree with Z'ha'dum in his brief, yet valid append.

What I find funny is that the immorts are accused of their own 'cliques' yet when their pkenabled alts are found out, no one WANTS them in their clan. I know a few this has happened to, so you can hand me any line of bull you want on it. If crossplaying wasn't such a HUGE thing, maybe the clan you say has so many imm characters, actually wouldn't. Immorts may be immorts, but 9 out of 10 of them are players here too, and should damn well be treated the same as the other players expect to be treated.

On a little P.S. The admin dept said, when new clans went in that immort's morts CAN be clan gms, but should probably try to find a suitable replacement.

Lori, et al

From: Himura Tuesday, April 14, 02:55AM

Funny how ppl take this the wrong way.

I thought i made it very clear that i wasnt out to accuse anyone.

I personally thought that it would make the game more interesting if the imms weren't limited in their clanned-alt involvement to the clan, and i thought that it would be more RP-friendly if they were split up, as imms in general, in my experience, have more an initiative to RP than other players, given their experience in the game, etc.

Wonder why i came across as paranoid, i have not mentioned any 'conspiracies' or such on my post.

It occurs to me that Z'ha'dum, you are the one that is paranoid, reading something from the post that isn't even there.


From: Arsene Tuesday, April 14, 05:54AM

knowing most of the GMs around, myself included, someone isnt refused because they are an imm, and landy is the only person Ill never let in a clan Im in, I think a lot assume they arent wanted, and most of the people who know who you are know you anyways besides being an immort, heck, most immorts are like any other player, they tell who they know as a friend who their chars are and it spreads, if people are a little uncomfy around authority, its nothing you dont find in the real world, Maybe if a few attempted to join other clans theyd be accepted, the ones in a certain clan have pretty much been in that clan from their inception.

From: Mandrake Wednesday, April 15, 06:26AM

-nod Himura- no matter what you write someone's always going to misinterpret it or jump at the chance to get something off their chest if it even remotely relates.. I agree btw, It's pretty much been us and them since I started playing, only rarely talking to IMM's outside of chat and usually while being reprimanded for something. -snicker-

I've never been able to handle authority, I'll never show anyone anymore respect than they show me. (I'd be screwed if put before Judge Judy) The IMMs really need to come down to visit us mortal peasants more often and being spread through the clans seems a good way to go about it as it also does away with the consipiracy theory at the same time.

Sure, there's still the possibility that an IMM could be considered a spy but hey, they can already see our clan channels and read our clan boards! -peer-

From: LadyAce Wednesday, April 15, 11:22AM

I'm responding in particular to Mandrake...

You say that us imms need to "come down and visit us mortal peasants more often" -- this strikes me as sort of odd.

For one thing, all immortals that I can think of have at least one mortal character. Most of us have about half a dozen, most of us play them every day. Our alts group, kill, die, rp. It's quite possible that you don't know who all our alts are, we work to keep them secret for a couple reasons -- the ability to form friendships with people who would be intimidated if they knew that we were immortals -- the ability to just take a break and play sometimes -- the ability to hear and see for ourselves how things are going -- all kinds of reasons.

But I figure most of you know that already. So what is it, precisely, that you want? Given our level of contact with mortals already, what should we add? We already have a lot of alts, should we make even more? Should we make our alts more obvious, so you realize the actual size of our contact?

I don't think that a reshuffling of immortals into other clans would particularly increase our contact with mortals. It might change the immediate group that our clanned characters spend more time with, but given that we already spend time with a wide spectrum of players, it's just a reshuffling of what alt we're wearing at the time.


From: Vajrapani Wednesday, April 15, 11:45AM

I think Mandrake meant more than mere mortal contact, but contact as a force that can be felt in the pk enabled community, namely their pk-enabled alts.

To be honest, unless i am totally unaware of ppl's alts (which happens very often) imms' mortals do whatever we regular mortals do--they stick with the people (not chars) they know, and rarely have i seen people make random groups other than Rufus's, possibly.

And in terms of clanned characters, the contact is very exclusive--i know there must be tons of imms i am not aware of, but those that i am aware of, are in the coven.

The coven being a clan where male chars are not quite accepted, that limits my contact (i -hate- playing female chars :P) but also it being a popular clan (one of the few, i think, that actually worry about the 15 member max limit), it is only for a chosen few :P/

It is more the 'gesture' or 'formality' that could make a difference here, for people would not, definately, bag on their clanmates' alt to a point where it becomes personal and ooc, and if imms were indeed everywhere, this would, even if just on surface, make PR a bit smoother.

Imagine having a few immortal-alt knights (maybe enough to pledge others as gm, or something) and Arsene wouldn't be -as- annoying on boards (though i do feel sorry for the imms that have to clan with him) (just kidding arsene, pulling yer leg here. :P)

Anyway, this should be thought into, imho, as should be some unspoken rule or at least, ettiquette that a person's (morts/imms) next clanned char should try to stay away from the clan/people they were with previously, so things might have a chance to come down to RP and not some remote grudge from a distant past.

Again, i am -not- accusing anyone of anything, just figured that this was an option to be, at least, considered.

Whatever you do with my opinion is up to you, just don't jump at me just cuz it sounds remotely accusatory to what you might have done.


From: Stella Saturday, April 18, 02:16AM

Just my 2 cents here...

I don't think it will solve any "problems" or anything if the imm's alts has to be treated differently than other characters as someone suggested. What if most of them are in the same clan? Why should they not be allowed to choose what clan they will be in?



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