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Yank it.

1998 Topic Index

Posted by Marcel on 07/16

PROBLEM 1. Jeez, pkillers flinging out challenges, insults and other (apparently, though not always actually) hostile comments on public channels, producing an atmosphere online which is sometimes less than pleasant, while attempting to lure each other out of the ooc lounge and back in character so they can wipe the floor with each other.

PROBLEM 2. Pkillers hiding in the ooc lounge making it impossible for other people to use it for what it was designed for, a relaxation area for people not currently roleplaying their characters - but typically talking to friends, discussing something with other players, or quite simply hanging out.

SOLUTION SUGGESTION. Rip pkill from the OOC lounge. Simply make it impossible for pkill enabled to use the facilities, i.e. to use the ooc command at all. Relocate the warboard to a couple of sites in the game, preferably in safe rooms - otherwise, only pkillers with access to clan halls will have the option of using it. Place discussion board at the same sites.

This way, pkillers will not be able to hide indefinity from unfinished fights and cause everybody else grief with spam and whining. Roleplaying pkillers can still hassle it out from in character. More, eh, direct combat oriented pkillers can get their fights finished and done with, instead of seeing them drag indefinitely.

DISCLAIMER. The above suggestion is drastic, admitted, but it would solve the problem. Since I rather like the OOC myself, though, I'd cheer delightedly at any more, um, easy going solutions that would achieve a similar effect, namely a major decrease in annoyance and on channel whining by pkillers.

Thank you for your time,

Marcel Alexander, Esquire.

From: Typ Tuesday, July 07, 06:03PM

on some other muds i've dabbled at there was a feature that once you get attacked or attack someone a flag goes up on you that takes 30 rl minutes to decay. until it decays you can't quit the game/rent and what not. maybe thats a bit drastic for legend, but i think it could be applied to this ooc thing.


From: Rictor Tuesday, July 07, 06:13PM

Well, in my really early Legend days there was once a nice imm called Arkenstone, maybe not so many remember it, but he had a tendancy to force PKillers hiding in OOC right out, with that imm command that makes you do things, and I think that maybe some more imms should do this, would solve the problem no?

Sir Rictor Belmont

From: Yvonne Tuesday, July 07, 10:35PM

Or perhaps chat should be disabled OOC or in clanhalls. Not perfect, I admit, but it would eliminate that "run OOC and taunt opponent over chat" strategy with which we're all too familiar.


From: Ishtar Wednesday, July 08, 03:39AM

I am very much against removing clanned access to ooc. I think it is bad in principle that clanned and unclanned should be treated differently in that manner. Every purpose for which an unclanned can legitimately use ooc is also legitimate for clanned characters. Preventing clanned characters from using it could reinforce the idea some people have that clanned characters log on for no reason except to pkill and that everything they do must somehow be pkill related. Clanned characters should be able to use ooc to take a break from ic playing and avoid ic things happening (including attack) while they are doing so. Otherwise they are effectively being prevented from participating in ooc activities to the same extent as unclanned.

Somebody should not be able to take advantage of the fact that somebody is engaging in an ooc activity such as a trivia game, an ooc conference discussion, reading and writing on boards etc to stage a pkill attack. Those might seem to be petty examples, but if the clanned to not need ooc to do those things, then surely unclanned need it even LESS, and it should be taken out for both.

I would prefer a less drastic solution like preventing use of channels while ooc, including the clan channel and possibly even tells. Conferences should be available ooc however, since they are used for ooc games and discussions, and it should really be possible to see infos of pkill deaths to avoid accidental multi on returning from ooc.

Even that solution seems a little odd, because if somebody is causign a problem on chat, its really that person who should be dealt with-


From: Agni Wednesday, July 08, 05:48AM

What's wrong with simply making OOC a silent room for pkers? Besides, it's not like we can yank ppl out of their bunkers, either.


From: Temujin Wednesday, July 08, 08:45AM

ooc isn't the cause of the problem, players are.

i agree with ishtar, players who really are afk, or not doing anything, or don't want their timed item decay, do have a right to ooc, and yes even have access to channels.

if someone is taunting over chat, perhaps have the immortals create a pkill channel, to me, the best way to avoid a irritating thing is to ignore it.

From: Sandra Wednesday, July 08, 10:38AM

Actually, since timed items are IC items, and ooc is, well OOC, they're doing the same thing, which is using OOC to fix an IC problem.

From: Rictor Wednesday, July 08, 10:59AM

I cant see why an imm would nudge any PK'er thats whining OOC out of OOC, it'd work, its been done, it can be done again.

Sir Rictor Belmont

From: Zak Wednesday, July 08, 04:44PM

just take away the ability to go ooc for a short period of time after pkill has been initiated and after a person comes back from the dead. give everyone a chance to cool off and not run ooc to hide from ic problems they should deal with. -point append 1-

From: Rufus Wednesday, July 08, 08:38PM

Just an FYI, but the subject matter of this discussion is being debated/argued within the immortal staff, touching on all of the issues and ideas raised.

Personally, the only one I object to is making a menu option to enter directly into the OOC. Believe it or not, the ooc is entirely composed of the acts language that the builders use to build their areas. The 'ooc' and 'ic' commands exist merely as aliases to 'tell ooc transfer me' and 'ask ooc return'. Tying it further to the code is not a good idea (IMHO) because of one of the main goals of making a releasable code base. The OOC is a distinct part of LegendMUD not the LegendMUD codebase, therefore, the fewer ties (and the less major those ties are, modifying menu options is a relatively major modification) the better. Again, just FYI.


From: PeTra Wednesday, July 08, 09:54PM

Sandra, I wanted to ask about your append concerning timed items. I am under the impression that ooc is for relaxing and not having to worry about ic issues. Hence, you don't get any more hungry ooc, and the food you eat there doesn't fill you up. Spell effects don't expire, and timed items don't age. Character's also don't age. It seems to me that anyone who sits ooc a lot to keep their timed items from poofing is also losing out on all the IC benefits, like watching what is goin on in an area, but more importantly they miss out on any kind of regen.

So, going ooc when a character is just sitting around chatting with freinds seems like a logical thing to do.

From: Yvonne Wednesday, July 08, 11:44PM

Another thought-I won't comment on timed items, but perhaps spells should be neutralized when you go OOC? It would certainly make it harder for pkillers to stay ooc and wait until someone they want to kill is on, or in a vulnerable position, and then swoop in.

From: Fatale Thursday, July 09, 01:29AM

You can't go OOC with most spells that are useful to a pkiller anyway. :)

From: Rictor Thursday, July 09, 09:48AM

Another problem is, if your 20 str mage that your regularly use str even to move with cant keep his str spell ooc he cant even move :)

Sir Rictor Belmont@

From: Agni Thursday, July 09, 03:18PM

As far as I know, you can go ooc with bless, sink, strength, armor, and some other relatively useful spells for pk.

Regarding taunting/etc from ooc... I personally think it's a form of crossplay, really, taunting OOC to chars that are IC. Or just really bad form of mudding, since you are actually crossing the IC/OOC boundary.


From: Estel Thursday, July 09, 06:26PM

I've always played one character, just something I do on muds, and you think it would be quite right to not allow me to post to the boards here, and to just sit back and talk once in a while( I also perpetually stay rogue) Not allowing pkillers ooc is a step towards banning pk entirely.

From: Agni Thursday, July 09, 10:38PM

just wondering.. what's so bad about making OOC a no-tell, no-channel room for clanned personnel? Maybe with the exception of trivia.

From: Rictor Friday, July 10, 12:07AM

Whats wrong with an Imm just botting someone out of OOC if they are PK enabled and obviously OOC because they are whining and moaning and generally being what you all dont wanna see?

Sir Rictor Belmont

From: Ishtar Friday, July 10, 01:58AM

Well, it could only be done if there was an immort online. And it would put immorts on the spot a bit, having to decide whether somebody was ooc for a legitimate reason or deserved to be booted out. I can see lots o people jumping on any excuse to try to get somebody booted out of ooc, plus accusations of favourtism, immortal interference etc.

Also, if somebody is making a nuisance on chat in an ooc manner, then pkilling them is not the way to deal with it, since pkill is not supposed to be used for ooc reasons. Unclanned can also cause annoyance on chat, so there must be ways and means to deal with it that don't involve making somebody available to be pkilled.


From: Starr Friday, July 10, 02:15PM

To put in my ideas about OOC...

The thing with a flag that makes sure you can't go OOC for a while after being in a pkill is not a very good idea in my opinion. It will not prevent people from going straight to OOC and taunting and the like, nor from doing it after the 30 minutes are up. Besides, it is as often non-pkill enabled characters who whine and annoy channels, as it is pkill enabled ones.

The other suggestion, about imms forcing people IC again, is also a bad solution, in my opinion. First of all, in order not to have very changing rules, according to the imm, there would need to be a very clear set of rules regarding what you could say from ooc and what you couldn't. Otherwise it will be "But this and that imm said it was ok yesterday". Also, most people would claim that they were not whining when an imm forced him or her ic. Besides, the imms has enough to do as it is, and get hated enough as it is. I see no reason to give some players another reason to whine at them if possible.

The banning of pkill enabled characters from OOC is also not a very good idea, as pkillers need a place to go afk too, and a place to sit and talk with friends. It would also separate pkillers and non pkillers more, which would create more problems, I think.

The only working solution, in my not so humble opinion, is to limit ALL characters who are OOC from tells and channels, limiting them to conferenses and gtells. That would effectively prevent the unpleasant situations, and would be equal for everyone, neither favorizing pkillers or non-pkillers.


From: Sandra Saturday, July 11, 10:06AM

What we intend to do is the following:

Place a timer on pkillers once pk combat starts that will prevent either combatant from going into the OOC for somewhere around 5-10 ticks. It will save over renting.

Place a timer on pkillers coming out of the OOC, so that they wil not be able to hide out in the OOC, and frequent the IC to check the who list, then back into the OOC again, etc. This timer will probably last 5 ticks.

I do not want to limit channel use to those in the ooc. I don't think that is fair, if they're just sitting there chatting.

I dislike the idea of making the OOC only accessable from the menu, because it makes it more code based, and I feel that the OOC is better as it is - being an area.

Anyway, there is still some discussion between the immorts, but this looks like what you will be seeing in the near future.


From: Marcel Saturday, July 11, 10:49AM

Those are some fairly drastic changes - fortunately not half as drastic as my initial suggestions - and I for one am merrily content to wait and see whether they solve the problem proposed before discussing the subject any further. I'll add, though, that I was sort of happy to see that I am not the only player here who happens to be pkill enabled AND as absurdly tired of this recurring problem - and it pleases me some too, to find that so many were eager to help come up with solutions. So they were discussing it already - well, nice, just means something gets done faster.

My faith in the system and my fellow players restored,

Marcel Alexander, Esquire.

From: Sandra Thursday, July 16, 02:15PM

There's a post on the welcome board that explains upcoming changes in regards to pkill and the ooc lounge.


1998 Topic Index