Discussion Index


1998 Topic Index

Posted by Rufus on 07/27

Okay, I hear a lot of 'mages have had too much stripped from them'... etc, I'd like to tackle this issue, but I need to know much more than specifics or whatever work I do will seem like guesswork. Frankly, from my experience, my mage characters gain exp a lot faster than any of my others, so maybe I'm missing the point somewhere. I need specific examples of specific spells to approach bringing all spells to a useful level, and to balance the different types of characters. -Ruf

From: Lethargio Wednesday, July 22, 07:10PM

well, mages have healing spells that can get them up to full health real quick, they also have a lot of 'prepping' spells, such as magic sink, armor, bless, strength, see invis etc etc. which other type of chars have no access to, I've seen a significant amount of difference in my fighting just by a simple bless spell... Other problems were spells such as bind and blind, which renders non-mage chars pretty much helpless unless, of course they spend a good deal of rent carrying lots of potions around (cuz they can just use the spell again). And, if i'm not mistaken, bind right now cannot be prevented except for that vague comment on 'areas' or something...

From: Zak Wednesday, July 22, 08:37PM

how about making some of the anti-mage item available out there more affordable for fighters to carry around. IE: the specs from hell. for those of us who know what they do. i dont think its quite worth the huge rent they have on them. I think a better thing woudl be for the specs to have the spell they give on them plus an antiblind spell on them or something for the same ren short they are now. These are the two most hindering spells there are against a fighter. If A fighter is willing to sacrifice 7 possible stat points, plus all that rent, i think it should be worth it. also the vials... another option are just consummed to fast for them to be worth their rent. make them quaffable 2 or 3 times at least! Fighters right now are pretty helpless to some of these spells because to compete we are forced to rent the +dam and +hit items in every slot we can fit them in, we need big renty weapons like the swords out there so we can hurt the mages for the short amount of time we have to kill them before they blind us etc..

From: Drax Wednesday, July 22, 09:37PM

Also, with fighter eq so rent heavy, carrying around vials ISN'T really a viable solution for a lot of them. Drax

From: Rufus Thursday, July 23, 12:17AM

Maybe my question wasn't clear enough (though I don't mind discussing other topics)... Some mages have said they feel they've had 'so much stripped from them already'... to which I ask: - What spells are useless? - What spells have been downgraded that shouldn't have been? etc... thanks, -Ruf

From: Yvonne Thursday, July 23, 12:58AM

This is less a reply to Rufus' questions than to Lethargio's concerns about bind and blind. -scuffle- Sorry, Rufus. In any case. I was trying to think of ways to partially offset the advantage that mages have over non-mages as far as the bind and blind spells go. My idea is perhaps a piece of eq which has magic sink as a spell effect. Obviously, this would have to be pretty renty, and it would have to be a fairly rare piece of eq, otherwise fighters would then have the advantage over mages, who would waste a lot of mana trying to get through this sink. Or maybe the sink shouldn't be too good, or something. I'm not sure, this idea just hit me. And in order to prevent mages from walking around with constant sinks on, make this eq have minuses to a stat like spirit, or perc, meaning that either you can walk around with a constant sink, and lose points in mind or your fight stat trying to make up the

From: Yvonne Thursday, July 23, 01:11AM

Ok, sorry, I'm very tired, and that didn't really turn out the way I had wanted. I think it's a valid idea, I'm just too giddy right now to really explain it without sounding like some sort of inspired lunatic. If anyone's interested, I might try again later. Yvonne

From: StrongDruid Thursday, July 23, 01:22AM

All right, Rufus, maybe it's not so much the spells, as mob construction done now that renders them useless, the spells that is :) I won't mention ID vials, since this has been discussed rather thoroughly already. But 2 other examples: 1. Flaming sword: A great weapon, but by giving a large number of mobs detect illusion it was severily weakened :( 2. Sleep spell More and more mobs wake up almost immediately after they are slept, taking away a big part of the advantage given. Those are just 2 examples, nut I am spammed by a discussion going on here, so I will quit now :)

From: Heretic Thursday, July 23, 05:55AM

I think the flame shourd or flaming shield is pretty much useless for the amount of mana required and the high words. Heretic the one and only.

From: North Thursday, July 23, 06:35AM

Um, how about Etheric void's damage being dropped and greater summonable mobs being dependant on mind more than hp, which kinda sucks for con mages =P. North

From: StrongDruid Thursday, July 23, 06:47AM

Actually I think that basing hp for greater summoning mobs on mind makes perfect sense. After all, mind is a mage's - even a con mage's ;) - proudest asset and there is no reason to give con mages special treatment. The spell should be worth equally much for all mages having it, and spells are based on mind :) I am pretty sure even con mages have very high mind, at least mine do :) As for the etheric void, I completely agree :) It's another example of a spell that has been downgraded for no real cause.

From: Sandra Friday, July 24, 08:17AM

I'm running a bit behind in reading these posts, but after reading the comments about ethric void, I thought I should posts. For the mana cost of that spell, it does more damage than it probably should, imo. Taking into account that it not only takes the victim's hp, but his mana and move as well. If it were up to me, I'd raise the mana cost of the spell. =P (Be glad its not up to me ;) -Sandra

From: Celia Friday, July 24, 09:33AM

There are only a few cases where draining a mob's mana and mv would be helpful, surely. The extra cost would usually only be worth it for pkill.

From: StrongDruid Friday, July 24, 02:15PM

Sandra, Rufus asked for examples of downgraded spells and etheric void was one of them. If responding to an immortal's request by giving examples he asked for will result in threats of downgrading them even more, then who will be willing to post?

From: North Friday, July 24, 04:56PM

hee hee...but I strongly doubt if Abbot Sugar cares if I drain a little mana from him. And neither would the HoL guys, or any of the 20K+ indus mobs, or the Dun Mobs...sigh...heck, even pkillers wouldn't really care about losing a little mana if they can headbutt/choke/kick me in return. I'd much rather have lots of damage and NO mana drain. =P North

From: Rufus Friday, July 24, 05:37PM

We're not threatening. I'd call it explaining. Etheric void is probably not as useful a spell in mobkilling, but it's one of those spells that we intended to not fall into the 'ordinary' category. Some spells will be more useful in certain situations. Etheric void is among them. -Ruf

From: Ulric Friday, July 24, 11:11PM

I've commented about Etheric void many times.. its a nice spell but Its pretty much useless against mobs due to its high mana cost and against pkillers, it still is an inferior spell in comparison to the rudh cause damage spells. Create should have a better damage spell, and with the addition of the fire effects on eq, the cause mages just get one more advantage that create mages dont have. Oh Btw... last time I checked flame shroud is for the most part useless. Boy would it be nice if create finally got a spell that cause doesnt have thats character effective like strength, idiocy, blind, unblind, etc.. Thats the reason cause is better. Oh and another thing, animate object needs to be checked.. allowing a cause mage to animate certain weapons that do 50 points of damage a round is big time unbalanced, those are better than demons any day, especially if you have enough of them. Ulric who knows first hand that create sucks compared to cause still

From: Maxamillian Saturday, July 25, 04:19AM

ok.. since I have never played a cause mage, and played 2 3rd circle creates with much enjoyment, I think I can respond to rufus' request adequately on the create spells. I agree pretty much on what people say about void.. but there is one spell that I use that I think is awesome LIGHTNING BOLT!!.. granted its only used outside but 70 dam at 100 mind is pretty decent.. at least I think thats how it works :P But I want to focus on the other seldom used spells that I think have been made useless. I remember when my dex create used to make daggers of ice to handle the mobs that couldnt detect illusion. I totally think that the create weapons have been downgraded to pathetic items.. Possibly let the cast level of the spell determine what quality of weapon is created.. and while were at suggestions.. maybe even add a create bow? I think it would make mage/archer type chars more interesting.. I also know that the earthquake and whirlpool spells have never really been changed.. but I really dont like how they are handled now.. When I come into a room. use all my mana on a quake and cause 40 dam to me, all 3 of my summons and the target.. and hit NOTHING else in the room... I think I am left with an unrealistic result. I understand how poison cloud and wave of nausea have amplified mana costs for multiple targets.. but earthquake and whirlpool hurt the caster as well.. unlike poison cloud. I suggest that earthquake and whirlpool possibly just have a flat cost because you are causing single event that hurts everyone in the room... and I know people would immediately think of the deaths of newbies and such but the fact is that quake and pool hurt newbies the way it is now and still take mana from you.. i really think thats unfair and could use some tweaking. but besides those groups of spells I think that creates have a pretty balanced set of spells overall. I know I rambled a bit.. but bear with me.. :) Maxamillian, creates DONT suck.. you just have to know how to use them

From: Siachet Saturday, July 25, 06:10AM

Create does at least have a couple of damage spells (flamestrike and lightning bolt) at the third circle level, as well as the etheric void, and summoned mobs which can be powerful in mob killing although more time consuming to use than the cause strategies (but more fun IMO). I had commented before on the fact that vials are not a great deal of use in fighting when mages have such low perc, and non-dex mages may not have throw at all. The create mage equivalents of 3rd cause damage spells are in the form of vials (fiery and watery death) which in my experience are virtually never used for this reason. Likewise there have been comments that ID vials were meant for emergencies while fighting rather than for getting equip, but I can't see how something so highly unreliable would be used for that purpose. The vials do have the advantage of being transferable, but some means of propelling them based on magic rather than a fighter skill would help a lot, IMO. Also, I don't really see why dagger of ice and flaming sword need to be illusions at all, if create mages are able to make real objects. Apart from those things, I think 3rd circle create is pretty powerful, especially with all the new spells added over the last few months. Oh, and I can't see any reason why flamestrike should not set fire to equip if the cause spells do....unless its just to keep them different. I really think that its 2nd circle create that needs a bit of work. Nearly all 2nd circle mage/fighters that I know of are cause, even though they often have herbal skills which duplicate some cause spells. Cause has a HUGE range of skills useful in prepping mobs, causing damage, and raising stats. Create doesn't really have anything except stun (which cause also has) and the doppel to use in fighting. While doppels are good, they don't seem to be enough to get the 2nd circle mages to choose create. Sia

From: Siachet Saturday, July 25, 06:35AM

Oh yes, come to think of it 2nd circle create does have some very nifty area type spells...but of course these are not always a good thing if you just want to fight one mob. Sia

From: Nothing Saturday, July 25, 08:37AM

I disagree with Ulric about the dancing sword spell. They do decent damage, yes but you have to go get the weapons to animate. Yes, they can do upwards of 50 damage a round, but they miss quite a lot. And they don't have specials, as opposed to greater summoned angels/titans/demons and elementals. Greater summonings have up to 7 times more hp than a dancing sword, and the only create that's timed lasts much longer than a dancing sword's charm. -Nothing

From: StrongDruid Saturday, July 25, 12:55PM

Just a small comment: Flamestrike does set things on fire, pretty good chance of it too :)

From: Palorn Saturday, July 25, 02:08PM

why not add a few more items to create object. and flame shroud is so usel ess because no one wants to loose a slot to statless eq. create could be a lot mroe powerful if the things we created weren't so wimpy. The summoned mobs aren't bad, but how about some things we can actually use. ie: timed stat items (unrentable) , timed items that allow you to see invis or timed items that protect you from certain spells..etc . Creates are so weak, we dont even have a good armor spell because if we want to use it, again we have to rem stat eq! If our spell damage isn't going to be upgraded much, just give us more useful things that we can create.

From: Zak Saturday, July 25, 03:37PM

to go along with Palorn's idea I think create's should be given a spell called portal (or something similar) where they can create a portal from where they are to another person on the mud. Have it so they can't walk through the portal (because they have to stay on their side and keep it open...) but the other people in that room can. If you dont want people to be able to portal from a place just set a property of the room to no_portal or whatever just like no_recall rooms. I think it would make playing a create mage lots of fun. Just an idea.

From: Rufus Saturday, July 25, 08:29PM

Flame shroud/fire shield should have a bit more of a boost next reboot/crash. It's probably temporary, but I gave the items a resistance (tough to guess which one, eh?) and a small stat bonus.


From: SirMichael Sunday, July 26, 12:35AM

Well, continuing on Zak's idea, i don't think the other person should be able to come through it, you should have to enter it but only you can enter the portal, and when you get through maybe there should be a big lag like a normal fighting 2 round lag, however long that is, and it might be designated to era only or maybe even area


From: StrongDruid Monday, July 27, 08:42AM

Wouldn't it be a good idea if that shield and shroud could be given away?

As it is, you can't create them till level 25 at earliest, and at that time most chars already have better shield or shroud.

Being able to give them away to newbies for instance would make them much more fun :)


1998 Topic Index