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Posted by Marlow on 10/13

I guess the reason immorts wont append to the xp posts is because they know its in a sad state and are working to correct it?

From: Sandra Saturday, October 10, 06:49AM

Personally, I won't bother appending to anything that accuses us of 'DELIBERATELY choosing to make challenges not worth the risk.' Considering that the xp scale is the one that was put up on the web some 2 or 3 years ago, I'd say those that installed it put alot of thought into it. The old scale isn't going to come back. So, instead of beating a dead horse, how about some ideas on how to make the new one less of a bore?


From: Primo Saturday, October 10, 10:05AM

So you're at least admitting that the new xp system is a bore? I hate to say it, but this is one of the changes that I have to say is a big flop. All the other things I've coped with, but this one is by far and away the one that has caused me to stop playing high lvl chars entirely, except just to talk to friends.

Just an opinion,


From: North Saturday, October 10, 07:29PM

Well, I think I suggested a while ago that mob hp/mana/mv be reduced a tad so it's a little easier to kill high level mobs, making the eq reward more proportional to the risk. However I don't believe that anything has really changed. I suppose people would just say that it reduces the challenge or something like that. =P


From: Osiris Saturday, October 10, 09:42PM

I have to say that this xp scale makes for VERY boring mob killing. I think there should be something done to it so that it is at least fun to kill mobs. Just my 2 cents.


From: Marlow Sunday, October 11, 01:51AM

Lets see 3 years of thought went into this dismal failure? Or wait, let me see, it was tested and put in sucking royally like every other change in the last year and a half. You are working on trees here , xp here, skills here, temp fixes there, your new pet areas over here, and basically handing us garbage that hasnt been made ready. You admit it is a bore You admit its been thought out for years, then you say it was tested out well, something is missing there if you want to say the systems wasnt made deliberately boring.

You want suggestions? Here

1) Once you hit lvl 16 or 17 the xp per mob doesnt increase by more than 5 or 6 k from then till 50, assuming efficient killing . STOP being so afraid someone is gonna lvl fast, and extend the range of xp per mob, and as a percentage fo xp to lvl. If someone wants to launch right ahead into lvl 50 mobs at lvl 15, let the reward for the risk be worth it.

2) come off the 25 million xp fence then. At 10-15k a pop lvling from 16-40 just becomes an increase in the number of 4 or 5 round fights to an amazingly dumb number.

3) Increase the 20k standard to 35 or 40k per kill, making it worthwhile to kill in a group once in a while, a mud is a social place, you cant rp by yourself and you cant group and make any xp(only thing that even comes close

to making prgress is a whimpy self healer) 4) increase loss at death, back to half xp, or quarter, capped at a decent lvl, you dont lose anything dying here, but hell you dont have any fun alive.

5) Talk to the people who get xp a lot and in an efficient manner, dont be so stuck up.

6) lower mob healing on the ticks, and lower their overall prowess, and s stop having mobs with straight 110s.

7) mage killing sucks, you have no skills, usually no meditate, and mana kills are thouroughly unrewarding, so its even worse being a mage.

From: Sandra Sunday, October 11, 07:18AM

I didn't say it was a bore. I went from other comments. Yes, its been set for years. Yes, we're willing to listen to ideas to make it less boring. No, its not leaving.

I'll skip down to number 5 on your list, and say this:

You expect us to listen to a damn thing you say with comments like that? Stuck up? You have no clue, -no- clue, who we talk to, how much we play our morts to test the system, nothing. So, don't you even start with this 'stuck up' bull. I'll readily admit that I think the system can use a bit of improvement, and I've pointed out the parts where I see it needs it, however, I don't sit and whine 'oh this stucks, because I can't get my chars to level 50 in 16 hours anymore!'. If I have no ideas on how to make it better, I simply say so.

Calling us names, and making childish remarks will get you nothing but posts like this.

Now, I'll skip down to #7, because I know nothing of what the new regain stuff will do or not do to mobs.

I've made 3 mages since the new xp scale went in, and I'm sorry to say, against your obvious expert judgement, that they've leveled easily, simply by learning one fight skill in between learning all those words.

My opinions are in no way the opinions of the rest of the imm staff, these are what I think, and my reactions to previous appends.

After this append, I'll not append another, because I've better things to work on than a flame war over something.

Again, feel free to post ideas of how to improve the xp scale, I'm sure the coders will read them.


From: Rictor Sunday, October 11, 08:25AM

I know you guys get all mad when the mud staff gets called stuck up or cliquish or whatever, and from personal experiance with you fine people I think to SOME extent its true with certain imms, and with other imms its not true at all, now I know you guys arent stuck up, most of you are very nice people, but heres the kicker, for about a year and a half as a newbie here, I THOUGHT you guys were, maybe you guys are sending that message? If you arent stuck up, and alot of people think you are, then maybe you should change your way of dealing with people and other things to remove this feeling.

Just a few thoughts,

Sir Rictor Belmont

From: Shine Sunday, October 11, 09:27AM

I agree with Marlow. :-)

Shine, the son of Aaron

From: Shine Sunday, October 11, 09:36AM

This is my idea:

imm can give more exps for strong mobs (for example Vlad,Herne,Oonagh) Then mortals will make more groups for getting exps nope only eq or SL. It is my idea.

Shine, the son of Aaron

From: Prospero Sunday, October 11, 12:25PM

SL is rare, takes 4 peopel minimum 8 at best for moving, herne, vlad etc arent enough or fast enough repops to make it worth it, whats gone is the group of 2-4 to hit mobs, esspecailly peopel 35-49

Also the ability to seek a solo challenge wihtout a healer Right now I see two viable xp runs

SL and the ungrouped healer with one hitter, thats all I see and those arent enough for in general, and unfun for the healer

From: Papercut Sunday, October 11, 02:27PM

Well, there are a few runs you can seriously efficiently run if you have a relatively diverse group, one that includes me :P and probably a mage, healer, tank, or hitter, whatever. :P

Yes, mages can level like crazy just by investing in -one- fight skill, and uhm, getting the right eq, but not any faster than fighter chars, but that's prolly meant to be :P

brb, creed spAM

From: Warke Sunday, October 11, 04:06PM

K, what i meant to say is that, a group with two hitters can still put up a decent xp run if you know which mobs to strike. I still think there's a slight bias towards mages, cuz it's a lot easier to take advantage of runs, mostly because mana is such a flexible commodity that can be easily/quickly regained when compared to hps. And unlike pk, in mobkilling, most of the time you only need one fight stat anyway, so being a mage (or a spell caster) has definate benefits in mobkill.

This char, with whopping 18 dex, can do some fun runs (-3dam -4 hit) still. And in a group, it usually all comes down to finding the right mobs for the group.


From: Elandria Monday, October 12, 07:36AM

Everyone is complaining about the xp system being too difficult, too borin or whatnot, and this may just be my opinion but wasn't the last one just as broken if not more than this one, while I agree there are problems with this system mainly the fact of high level mob fighting not being worth the risk to attempt except for eq, wasn't the last system just as messed up seeing that we had people going from level 15 to 45 in a few hours provided they got someone to help.

This whole thing kinda reminds me of something that came up on another mud where I'm an admin, and at least my take on the situation is that players are in general greedy as is basic human nature, and if they've become accustomed to something that makes their lives easier as a player of course they'll be upset when its taken away, even if they knew it was flawed in their favor to begin with, and that generally goes for anything not just this xp system. But enough of my analysis of players.

What I basically want to say is that, most likely the imms know what the problem is and I would figure are trying to find a way to correct it that they can agree upon. So if you want the change to come about any quicker, posting insulting messages or just rehashing whats already been saaid isn' isn't really going to help, since if anything it just takes away from the time the imms could have been spending working to correct the problem because they have to read and defend themselves through all your messages lest they be marked as not caring or not listening. So all I'm saying is just try to think a bit before you write your next message, has it already been said? Will my message really accomplish anything? Cause if we follow at least those two simple things I think players and imms in general would probably be alot better off.

Just my $.02,

Elandria (...)

PS: This opinion is my opinion and does not nessecarily reflect that of the staff, the morts, or anyone else, unless of course they realize the logic behind this whole thing. ;)

From: Vandervecken Monday, October 12, 04:51PM

As I understand it, levels for mobs will be extended with levels from 51 to 100. When this is implemented, I'm sure the xp gained by these supermobs will be worth the risk and restore incentive to be reckless in the pursuit of cheap thrills. Or I could be totally wrong. Would an Imm please comment on this possibility?

From: Eol Monday, October 12, 05:48PM

just seems no one wants to discuss the xp problem.

From: Goliath Monday, October 12, 07:33PM

I dont know about the other appends, but I dont think the new scale is harder. NO WAY! It is, and I have said it before, (see post 26 append 15) MIND-NUMBINGLY boring and easy.

Well, I suppose if your a moron, and attack lev 50 mobs for XP, itd be hard. I would rather kill level 35-45 mobs for almost the same darn XP, and not even take a hit. I can kill a lev 40 mob, which is maybe a couple 1000 xp less, and not even be touched. Now am I some sort of super char? Hell no, I personally think this char sucks and want to make a new one -- but that'd take killing 3000 boring lame easy mobs.



From: Papercut Tuesday, October 13, 04:04AM

I mostly miss the cheap thrills of seeing how effectively one could solo a 50 mob at earlier lvls, sometimes before even getting one fight skill or weapon proficiency. That was taken out when the hit table got changed--i remember missing 9/9 attacks against a stunned mob. Then we had this nifty xp scale change, where it simply isn't worth the hps/mana to kill a high level mob for xp. On the other hand we have utter slaughter in certain regions, mostly by ppl who are well above the xp curve to make it really anything that one has to pay even remote attention to their screen at.

Ever tried playing the stock muds, where you can't hit anything, but after you level, you suddenly start beating them like nuts? No skill or startegy involved there, you level, and voila! you can start whacking the mob you had trouble with just a level earlier. Thankfully we haven't regressed to that level yet, but with the xps given so close together to make highlvl kills worthless is definately a step into that kind of monotony. Kill, rage, bash. Backstab, kick. ...

As of now, the mud is still fairly stat and skill based. Levels really don't make that much of a difference if you are not equipped to your rents content. The last system, and also the reason why we can't simply raise th e xps on this system, powerlevelling was a problem due to its ooc repercussions, mostly by clanned lvlling clanneds to carry grudges. But did the removal of powerlevelling help? In my opinion, it is merely a coincidence that we don't see too many ppl lvlling like nuts. However, in some way, it's just made more difficult to track down who's helping who now, because now, the friends only have to equip their little buddies, instead of holding their hands and guiding them through one mob to the next. It might have reduced the amount of time spent a bit, but the ppl who had the resources then, have the resources now.

Well, i know i'm longwinded, and tend to speak before i think, so here's the summary of what i was trying to say :P

Don't be afraid to increase the xp gap between levels, it does little to prevent/encourage powerlevelling because this mud is still largely a stat based mud. And when the xp gap is increased, upwardly adjusted so that mob s are worth more at higher levels, it will allow for a more generous group split.


From: Marlow Tuesday, October 13, 08:05AM

whats worse is the total silence almost of the immorts still to even discuss whats being done about the problem, we can get a new regen code, work on housing, this and that, but the biggest current problem and we cant even get a response.

From: Papercut Tuesday, October 13, 10:38AM

wouldn't say it's the biggest problem per se, but it would seem logical to hammer out problems before adding new features. one step at a time :P

From: Rufus Tuesday, October 13, 02:18PM

I sent a message to kaige after four weeks of testing, logging, analyzing, listening, and working with rather spiffy and long algabraic formulas. When I get a solid proposal though the development stages for delivery to the players and the godlist, I'll let you know.

Yes, I'm working on this, and a dozen other things. The reason we add features and seemingly don't correct problems is because there isn't a single member of the coding department not working on multiple projects at once. While fixing one, another may reach completion. We too, do this for fun, and I hate to say it, but writing tons of structures, variable lists, cleaning up code, optimizing, writing the same things over and over again can get far more repetatively boring than killing the same mob 250 times to level. Hence we generally have two or more open projects to keep us going and keep the mud moving.



1998 Topic Index