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Posted by Papercut on 11/03

Backstab still gives victim priority....

Autorush enables the rusher to get priority...

Headbutt resets combat, so you can't spam something without a target until another round passes, by which time the headbutter will just headbutt you again (if you're blind, that is), making blind/headbutt quite deadly...

Come to think of it, a lot of stuns reset combat that way, so the stunner with a consistent stunning skill doesnt take any damage, really.

Priority should be made more perc dependant, or at least give the high perc chars a choice of having high or low priority. With max wimpy being rendered useless as a strategy, snipers seriously don't have much chance against anyone, esp against a str char with autorush. What's more, with the removal of parry from one weapon that could effectively produce the same effects as max wimpy (albeit highly randomly and unlikely) if a sniper wants to maximize backstab damage, they have to give up 5 points of stat, in addition to the 5 pts they're already giving up for the gun.


From: Oompa Wednesday, October 21, 06:29AM

Mmm, seems a tough one to fix (considering mobs would have more perc than a lot of snipers too), fighting at max wimpy makes it more interesting in both pkill and against mobs so I hope there's some way to fix it.. Would be great if the check on wimpy could be moved to the end of the round so you'd always get your hits in.

From: Vengeance Wednesday, October 21, 11:05AM

if you moved the wimpy check to the end of a round, it kinda negates alot of the point behind hit/flee. instead of suger landed 1 attack and me fleeing, he lands all of em and then i flee. he doesn't do a specia yay me. he still did alot more damage than i would have taken

From: Rufus Wednesday, October 21, 05:45PM

Still working on the backstab thing, by the code the player attacking -should- get priority, they currently don't and I'm not sure why. Shoot is along the same lines, though I think I know exactly where that bug is.

As far as maximizing backstab damage by losing 5 stat points, that's only if you want to be able to parry.

And there's a reason you generally have to give up stat points for firing weapons. Shoot/flee etc is a powerful tactic. Now a prior thread is discussing the tradeoffs of item stats and power and whatnot, so why doesn't that hold over to the discussion at hand?

As far as giving up stat points, also, the ability to lead with something that can do upwards of 80 points of damage (more if stunned) is a VERY powerful thing to have.

No, the fight priority isn't perfect yet, there are some issues with stun that need to be fixed in order for it to work properly, etc, and I'm working on those.

However, if you think the goal was to imitate the system before with new internals, you're mistaken. Some of it was to relieve the stress on the actual system that was caused by massive renting in/out, but some of it was to change the premise of some of the fight tactics. As far as hit/flee... it has always been overpowered, and always will be. The reason being is this:

Legend allows wimpy %'s to the maximum number of hps. Very few if any other muds allow this, 'flee' being typed in manually.

Very few mobs on this mud do anything once first attacked. They stand there and wait while players heal in another room, etc.

Therefore, any bonus gained by mobs having multiple attack lines is generally wasted unless they A) keep you from fleeing, B) waste you in about a round anyway, C) hunt you, or D) do something to aid themselves when not fighting.

Seeing as 'hunting' is the single most expensive function in legend's code (renting/saving chars is slow because of disk access, not processor time) very few of our mobs do this. SL originally created a substantial dent in the processing speed of the entire mud because of the mobs' hunting abilities (we have since changed processors and this is no longer much of an issue).

Originally, too, the intent for max-wimpy was to flee only when any lag created by skills was no longer in effect (that meant if you ran in and kicked, you would have to wait two rounds before your wimpy kicked in).

Frankly, I'd like to abolish the entire idea of hit/flee, but that's personal opinion. From a more professional standpoint, it has a place in the game, though I believe it a shade overpowered currently and the adjustments that have been made to counterract the hit/flee tactic have really enforced its use (mobs primary attacks doing larger amounts of damage than normal, etc).

Back to the original topic... I'm working on it (the fight prio code) and you don't need to post things twice or three times (I'm -STILL- aware that backstab doesn't give priority, from three or four posts ago).


From: Papercut Thursday, October 22, 12:13AM

I agree with the fact that max wimpy is overpowered against mobs. With poison/meditate/root etc, mobs seriously don't have much a chance against players using max wimpy unless they have the above mentioned ability to counter that (like the stooooopid kraken pulling you in and immediately uhm, too much info? ugh).

But in pk, max wimpy is fairly important to some char types if they are to survive, and it used to be that snipers had a fair chance in combat being able to shoot/flee effectively (less skill lag and whatnot).

As far as posting stuff over and over, well, from the perspective of a player, a couple weeks is pretty close to forever :P and it does help to at least make sure something's being done. Also, i posted it mostly cuz i noticed that the mobs are now growling after the backstab, whereas befor they simply took the priority; figured you might have put some fix in it and thought it worked whereas it doesnt :P


From: Prospero Thursday, October 22, 02:28AM

agreed on dex weapons being crummy right now because one got emasculated, you HAVE to have the parry as a sniper, and it is really dumb when a str fighter with a humungous weapon outparries you

Giving up a special and a stat bonus just to get parry is no good, either we need a new dex weapon that is heavy and parries, with some kind of stat or effect, or give the old oen back.

From: TerrorSpawn Thursday, October 22, 06:31AM

order all this whining about one weapon. What did people do before it existed in the game? I know I'm not the only one that would like to see more variety of 'good' highlev weapons for all fighter types. But if one weapon becomes more preferable than any of the rest, it's obviously overpowered. Even though I wasn't around, I'm sure there was more of a fuss when blinders were taken out.


From: Rufus Thursday, October 22, 02:43PM

Heh, small problem in your logic. Heavier weapons parry less often than medium weight ones (in fact, a little secret, 6kg weapons are the best parrying weapons in the game). Therefore even if you COULD parry with said weapon, you wouldn't be maximizing both the parry ability and the backstab ability.


From: Arsene Friday, October 23, 03:12AM

but it should still parry, a sniper with no chance to parry is really really at a disadvantage, and the only option is to lose 5 stat points, and a special on the weapon, or get a weapon with a poor special and low damage, or the other usable q5 with stats, but it doesnt parry.

Dex weapons are really underpowered now, especially with str having really good options in weapons.

From: Zeus Monday, October 26, 04:05PM

Well, there _IS_ the athame.... hmm, well, it has some sorta stats and, well, no special. I can't think of any other Q5 daggers, however. Then again, I just may not know where to look.

If there is a Q5 dagger with stats and/or specials that happens to weigh in at 6kg, let me know via mudmail and I'll test it.

How about adding some balanced Q5 daggers and staffs and swords? I gots ideas! (see above thread)



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