Posted by Mo on 12/07
Should be more a priority then making new code, after all,
chances are that the new code will need tweaking too, and we'll
just end up with tons of stuff that needs to be tweaked, but gets
never dealt with!
In all seriousness, tweaking and bug fixes should be No2 and No1
priorities, as players won't miss what they don't have yet, but
will certainly get pissed if they see something that's buggy or
giving advantage to others... or sometimes even themselves :p
Saturday, December 05, 01:52PM
Skill trees? there's no such thing!
Saturday, December 05, 03:59PM
Do not mean to sound rude or anything, but the fact that this code
is playable is precisely why tweaking should take precedence of the
long-term project. Skill trees and such, not many here truly expect
them to be around any time soon, and most of us do fine without them.
Sure it'll be nice to have them, but that isn't what's pressing to
most pkers (i don't care to speak for those who don't pk, you guys
do that well for yerself).
Granted tweaking may be a thankless job, but such is true for most
imm tasks. And you say tweaking takes longer than projects? How on
earth can that be, since a project shouldn't be considered complete
when tweaking and such is all taken care of? I personally don't
like to think the imms as throwing half-completed codes around,
and i don't think the notion of 'tweaking' being external to the
project is very appealing to me.
As far as the tweaking being cancelled out by long-term goals, I
have only a few things to say. One, if the tweaking is good and
solid, no need to replace it with something untested. Two, long-
term is exactly that, long-term. Not many things will remain unchanged
unless they are perceived as being good, so no extra task by tweaking
existing code to the standard.
Saturday, December 05, 06:47PM
The thing is, Mo, if the imms always take time off from the long-term
projects to tweak, it really WILL never get done.
Saturday, December 05, 06:57PM
division of labor, then. have them rotate tasks per month, some
working on tweaking and some working on long-term. can't see it
being so hard.
Sunday, December 06, 01:19AM
To be honest, Ruf, I don't see why you posted that last message.
No one was attacking you in particular or the imms in general.
This post and its appends were, for Legend, well reasoned and civil.
I've been accused of being an imm pet in the past, but this is one
time where I guess I won't be. For you to shoot off such a pissy
post for no apparent reason can only degrade what trust most
morts have in the imm staff right now. By all means, if you're busy
RL and can't finish a particular project, say so. But don't try to lay
some sort of guilt trip on the entire mud for making suggestions.
Sunday, December 06, 02:13AM
Don't worry about it bryn, ruf's been like that pretty much
ever since i've been here. and geez ruf, if you want to leave,
go ahead. this ain't no sweatshop labor, if you don't like it,
we can't force you to stay. but as long as yer staying, make yerself
useful and do something.
Sunday, December 06, 02:15AM
oh yeah, if you're gonna be gone, no more of "your stuff," so
don't even bother with that. we'll just relegate 'your stuff' to
somebody that wants to do it, or heck, if it ain't gonna get
done with or without you, we might as well do away without a
imm that isn't even productive.
Sunday, December 06, 07:48AM
Damn people, I'm sorry but if Ruf wants to take a break you don't
have to hound him for it. He's done more for this mud than anybody
I know, so what if he's not the social type and has his moods.
Sunday, December 06, 09:07AM
My thoughts on the subject of tweaking existing code vs writing new code
Since we are gonna have skill trees sooner or later ... why put a lot of
effort into tweaking code that is going to be replaced. I can understand
bug fixes needing to be a priority, but if you tweak something, then find
it is buggy, fix the bugs, then we morts complain, and further tweaking
is done on the tweaks ... it could take forever. Just to improve the
game play of whichever type of char is getting trashed in pk this month.
That effort could be spent more productively in working on something new,
that (hopefully) will take into account player concerns about balance, etc
Just my 2 coins worth
Sunday, December 06, 11:37AM
Nowhere did I say that I don't appreciate what Rufus does for the mud.
Nowhere did I say that he isn't allowed to be busy RL. I'm not trying
to imply that anyone should put Legend in front of their real lives.
I simply object to the tone of Rufus' post, which I think comes
completely out of left field. Rufus is certainly allowed to be busy
RL, and he's certainly allowed to have bad moods, that's not the issue.
However, to be honest, as an imm he should be held to a higher standard
of posting than morts. What an imm posts on this board and others is the
official Word From On High of Legend. I don't see the justification for
such an angry post by Rufus on a discussion string which was, to me,
interesting and civil. To me, it give the impression that Legend's imms
are going to do their own thing no matter what and damn what the players
think. And I know that isn't true, which is why this whole thing bothers m
Sunday, December 06, 11:52AM
Well, yeah, maybe my post was a bit pissy... but if we don't change
stuff, people complain, if we do change stuff, people complain, if
we are working on it and say 'we're working on it' people put up
stuff like 'don't tell me it's being worked on' ... there's a point
at which we have to make decisions to do what needs to get done.
I haven't been around much, haven't taken a lot of flak lately (thank
god) but it just seems kinda ridiculous when not only do we have
tons of bugs backing up, pressure from people over skilltrees and
a large voice from the pkill community scrutinizing every little
change that goes in... Frankly, I really haven't felt like I've
gotten anything accomplished in the last three months because I've
And as far as 'delegating' my stuff out to other people... um, who? they
are really busy tweaking themselves.
Sunday, December 06, 12:45PM
Sounds like what's really needed is some more coders. I know there are
players out there that can code well, if you are one apply to immort
dammit. I cnouldn't code my way out of a wet paper bag unfortunately.
I have to agree with Bryn too, Rufus's post came from left field into
what I thought was a very civil discussion as this board goes. :P
Yeah we all have bad days though.
Another point: Bug fixes are not the same as tweaking IMHO. Bug fixes
are a lot more necessary than either projects or tweaking. Is it
possible to delegate coders between bug fixing and projects and leave
the tweaking alone for now?
Monday, December 07, 01:37AM
"if you don't change stuff, people complain, if you do change stuff,
people complain". That's true, and I think it's mostly due to
the majority of changes being too drastic, it's rare to see
slight improvements or downgrades, most tend to be so bad as
they feel they should perma or so good for another char
type that they want to perma and try that char type.
Of course then the change is toned down some or ripped completely
and once again the players suffer for it..
T-Bone - tired of waste of hundreds & hundreds of hrs rebuilding.