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Posted by Mo on 12/07

Should be more a priority then making new code, after all, chances are that the new code will need tweaking too, and we'll just end up with tons of stuff that needs to be tweaked, but gets never dealt with!

In all seriousness, tweaking and bug fixes should be No2 and No1 priorities, as players won't miss what they don't have yet, but will certainly get pissed if they see something that's buggy or giving advantage to others... or sometimes even themselves :p


From: T-Bone Saturday, December 05, 01:52PM Skill trees? there's no such thing!

From: Mo Saturday, December 05, 03:59PM Do not mean to sound rude or anything, but the fact that this code is playable is precisely why tweaking should take precedence of the long-term project. Skill trees and such, not many here truly expect them to be around any time soon, and most of us do fine without them. Sure it'll be nice to have them, but that isn't what's pressing to most pkers (i don't care to speak for those who don't pk, you guys do that well for yerself).

Granted tweaking may be a thankless job, but such is true for most imm tasks. And you say tweaking takes longer than projects? How on earth can that be, since a project shouldn't be considered complete when tweaking and such is all taken care of? I personally don't like to think the imms as throwing half-completed codes around, and i don't think the notion of 'tweaking' being external to the project is very appealing to me.

As far as the tweaking being cancelled out by long-term goals, I have only a few things to say. One, if the tweaking is good and solid, no need to replace it with something untested. Two, long- term is exactly that, long-term. Not many things will remain unchanged unless they are perceived as being good, so no extra task by tweaking existing code to the standard.


From: Danar Saturday, December 05, 06:47PM The thing is, Mo, if the imms always take time off from the long-term projects to tweak, it really WILL never get done.


From: Mo Saturday, December 05, 06:57PM division of labor, then. have them rotate tasks per month, some working on tweaking and some working on long-term. can't see it being so hard.

From: Bryn Sunday, December 06, 01:19AM To be honest, Ruf, I don't see why you posted that last message. No one was attacking you in particular or the imms in general. This post and its appends were, for Legend, well reasoned and civil. I've been accused of being an imm pet in the past, but this is one time where I guess I won't be. For you to shoot off such a pissy post for no apparent reason can only degrade what trust most morts have in the imm staff right now. By all means, if you're busy RL and can't finish a particular project, say so. But don't try to lay some sort of guilt trip on the entire mud for making suggestions.

From: Mo Sunday, December 06, 02:13AM Don't worry about it bryn, ruf's been like that pretty much ever since i've been here. and geez ruf, if you want to leave, go ahead. this ain't no sweatshop labor, if you don't like it, we can't force you to stay. but as long as yer staying, make yerself useful and do something.


From: Mo Sunday, December 06, 02:15AM oh yeah, if you're gonna be gone, no more of "your stuff," so don't even bother with that. we'll just relegate 'your stuff' to somebody that wants to do it, or heck, if it ain't gonna get done with or without you, we might as well do away without a imm that isn't even productive.

From: TerrorSpawn Sunday, December 06, 07:48AM Damn people, I'm sorry but if Ruf wants to take a break you don't have to hound him for it. He's done more for this mud than anybody I know, so what if he's not the social type and has his moods.

From: Tarn Sunday, December 06, 09:07AM My thoughts on the subject of tweaking existing code vs writing new code

Since we are gonna have skill trees sooner or later ... why put a lot of effort into tweaking code that is going to be replaced. I can understand bug fixes needing to be a priority, but if you tweak something, then find it is buggy, fix the bugs, then we morts complain, and further tweaking is done on the tweaks ... it could take forever. Just to improve the game play of whichever type of char is getting trashed in pk this month. That effort could be spent more productively in working on something new, that (hopefully) will take into account player concerns about balance, etc

Just my 2 coins worth


From: Bryn Sunday, December 06, 11:37AM Nowhere did I say that I don't appreciate what Rufus does for the mud. Nowhere did I say that he isn't allowed to be busy RL. I'm not trying to imply that anyone should put Legend in front of their real lives. I simply object to the tone of Rufus' post, which I think comes completely out of left field. Rufus is certainly allowed to be busy RL, and he's certainly allowed to have bad moods, that's not the issue. However, to be honest, as an imm he should be held to a higher standard of posting than morts. What an imm posts on this board and others is the official Word From On High of Legend. I don't see the justification for such an angry post by Rufus on a discussion string which was, to me, interesting and civil. To me, it give the impression that Legend's imms are going to do their own thing no matter what and damn what the players think. And I know that isn't true, which is why this whole thing bothers m me.


From: Rufus Sunday, December 06, 11:52AM Well, yeah, maybe my post was a bit pissy... but if we don't change stuff, people complain, if we do change stuff, people complain, if we are working on it and say 'we're working on it' people put up stuff like 'don't tell me it's being worked on' ... there's a point at which we have to make decisions to do what needs to get done.

I haven't been around much, haven't taken a lot of flak lately (thank god) but it just seems kinda ridiculous when not only do we have tons of bugs backing up, pressure from people over skilltrees and a large voice from the pkill community scrutinizing every little change that goes in... Frankly, I really haven't felt like I've gotten anything accomplished in the last three months because I've been tweaking.

And as far as 'delegating' my stuff out to other people... um, who? they are really busy tweaking themselves.


From: Fright Sunday, December 06, 12:45PM Sounds like what's really needed is some more coders. I know there are players out there that can code well, if you are one apply to immort dammit. I cnouldn't code my way out of a wet paper bag unfortunately.

I have to agree with Bryn too, Rufus's post came from left field into what I thought was a very civil discussion as this board goes. :P Yeah we all have bad days though.

Another point: Bug fixes are not the same as tweaking IMHO. Bug fixes are a lot more necessary than either projects or tweaking. Is it possible to delegate coders between bug fixing and projects and leave the tweaking alone for now?


From: T-Bone Monday, December 07, 01:37AM "if you don't change stuff, people complain, if you do change stuff, people complain". That's true, and I think it's mostly due to the majority of changes being too drastic, it's rare to see slight improvements or downgrades, most tend to be so bad as they feel they should perma or so good for another char type that they want to perma and try that char type.

Of course then the change is toned down some or ripped completely and once again the players suffer for it..

T-Bone - tired of waste of hundreds & hundreds of hrs rebuilding.


1998 Topic Index