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Proposed FIX to stun (pkers & coders read)

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Posted by Zeus on 12/23

Ok, its seems there is _some_ agreement that 3rd circle stun is over-powered. I think I have come up with a very good set of changes that should balance this issue out (I hope).

Okay, first change: The odds of a successful stun being a worse for wear really seemed about right before the changes -- I propose that the be changed back for both 2nd and 3rd circle mages.

Second -- keep the 60 mind reg for worse for wears -- this was a good change.

Third -- the req. to have more that 10 mind than the char/mob being stunned for a worse for wear is a good idea, but I honestly think that it should be 9. THis will make idiocy a nice spell to have, or use via a thrown vial. I mean, lots and lots of mobs have 100 mind and they should be worse for wearable at 90 mind -- the odds of a backlash will even this out I think.

Finally -- as is 4 and 5 round worse for wears have proved to be a bit much (see Beam's pk log page). I propose that the length of a worse for wear be set at 3 rounds for 3rd circle mages and 2 rounds for 2nd circles. This will give 3rd circlers a significant boost in that they can get off an immolate/firestrom, while still limiting lowish mind 2nd circlers.

Also, I personally dont like the idea of changign the lag on getting a worse for wear as opposed to a regular stun. Someone could have a waker. They would be awake and you'd be over-lagged. Thats what I think on that anyways.

On a different note, what is the lag on immolate and firestorm? Its been a while since I played a 3rd cause -- but as I recall its 2 and 1/2 rounds on immolate and 2 on firestorm? Is this correct? What should they be also?



From: Rufus Saturday, December 19, 05:34PM

all damage spells were moved to 2 rounds.


From: Fright Sunday, December 20, 07:34AM

Wouldn't moving wfw lag to 3 rounds solve the wfw/immolate problem and balance it out?

Problem I have with wfw's being a standard 3 or 4 round is at low level 3 or 4 rounds is nothing (since mages often have negative damageroll at those levels). Maybe make it a base of 3 rounds, plus additional rounds if you are doing lousy damage.


From: Fright Sunday, December 20, 07:36AM

Oh yeah, a 9 mind difference is an idea I like for wfw's to succeed.


From: T-Bone Sunday, December 20, 08:24AM

But.. that means only cause can wfw smart mobs, scrap the whole idea!

From: Zeus Sunday, December 20, 08:53AM

It means create has to throw pungent vials ....

Which brings me to another idea -- add a new scroll -- say you can get them in Nazca, a crusty scroll, same rent/cost as the agrabah ones, that casts idiocy. Move the number to wfw from 10 to 9 and problem solved.


From: Adolfus Sunday, December 20, 12:25PM

We need a herb that is rentable that provides Brainpower when brewed.

From: Zeus Sunday, December 20, 01:46PM

brainpower is neat if itd last more than 2 ticks -- say 10

From: Davien Sunday, December 20, 04:12PM

Having a scroll that creates can use is all well and good, if they can spare the rent. Most serious creates have a sugers chalice which effectively uses up almost all of their spare rent. I know that I only have 150 rent free most of the time, so while it sounds like a great idea, it probably wouldn't make any sort of difference to a lot of creates.

As for throwing vials... well have you seen the hitroll that a 100 con/str mage has with 100 mind? 29 is a very high number for dex in those circumstances which gives a hitroll of 0. Don't forget, creates can't cast bless to raise it either. Many creates can't even learn throw! Next problem is that mobs with high mind almost invariably have good AC as well. Throwing vials at people causes them to get rather excited even if you miss, and that is the most likely result most of the time. Maybe if you could throw vials from outside the room and they didn't come charging in if you missed. After all how would they know who the vial was aimed at? Then a create needs to walk around with 12 vials to get an idiocy (rent again) and this is hard because creates don't have the brew skill. Now we need that as well to employ some of our spells. Maybe we should just give up on stun and move to some damage spells..... oh wait we can only do that if they are outside. -shrug- No answer I can see, so lets balance things out. Introduce a 10 con difference for headbutt, and a 10 dex-con one for corotid chokes, and all other fight skills. Then lets see them work with vials and scrolls to use skills that come with their class.

Davien Holyoake.

From: Mugwump Wednesday, December 23, 04:16PM

I've been thinking the same thing lately, Davien. And even though I am dex I don't think a thrown vial is the answer. I really really like th concept behind making stun more mind dependent but a min difference kind of has the side effect of turning it into a cause spell. Of course, since most high level mobs have 100 mind anyway, cause already had the advantage with stun, but this just exacerbates it. Since the mana cost changes went in, I'd given up on stun for the most part anyway, but that's because I have 0 damroll, so damage spells work better for me personally.

I am usually against suggestions that lessen the differences between character types- cause heal should _not_ be the same as create heal, con skills shouldn't have the same effects as str skills, etc. But without a way for creates to idiocy this change really makes a spell that is available to both groups favor cause too much. I like the idea of stun result being mind dependent, wfw chance should be greater the bigger the difference in mind, but maybe should only be zero on opponents whose mind is higher than the casters.



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