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re: Somme update (long)

1999 Topic Index

Posted by Wraith on 01/11

This post may seem late, but I have been busy with other issues and trying not to post while i am extremely irate at the mindset of some of the players. Undoubtedly, some cynicism will remain for this post. Take this comment for starters: every char i have ever made used somme from about level 5-20 to level off of privates and such.. I'm sorry if this comes as a shock, but the area was not meant for level 5 characters. Sure, I have some mobs there that you can fight at low levels and you can wander through the whole area at level 5. But, you should expect to die repeatedly if you are fighting privates and such. It was implied that the area was now like shadowlands. If you are level 5, fighting privates should be much worse than shadowlands. If you can take a level 5 character and kill a level 20 mob, there is something wrong. Of course, I don't think that's what happened. I think you meant you had somebody dragging you around giving you experience. However, I know that the mobs used to be much, much too easy. If I can take a level 10 character and kill a level 20+ mob while I'm sitting down, something needs to be fixed. There was no strategy needed. There was nothing for anyone to boast about. There was another complaint by a character whose level would make you think he should do well in the area. However, the character was a dex/mage with significantly more dex than mind and his only skill was chant. If you are in this position, change your tatics. Don't complain about the difficulty of the mobs. If you are going to learn every spell available before learning how to fight with a weapon or your body, then you should rely on your mind, not your dex.. Of course, those tatics might work if your goal is to flee... There has been an enourmous outpouring of complaints on how high level mobs were not worth enough experience. Never have I heard a mortal complain that a mob was too easy. If you want to be taken seriously, you need to point out both; mobs that are too hard and those which are too easy. There is a misconception about the update. It appears that an early report implied the xp on all mobs was lowered while their difficulty was increased. While almost every mob had their difficulty increased, there was a only single type of mob which had its xp reduced. It went down because the mob's level was lowered by two. It didn't seem logical that the soldiers just arriving from England would be able to fight as well as soldiers who had been there a while. Heaven forbid one mob should help another. Players form groups, why shouldn't mobs? On the one hand, there are complaints that fighting mobs is too boring. On the other, there are complaints that they are too hard. You may not have noticed, but these tend to conflict with each other. Not always though, mobs can curse at you and yell for help if they are fighting. You could argue that some players are better than others at fighting mobs. I agree completely. However, there is a range that you should not be able to go beyond. Killing captains at level 15 just shows how limited mobs are/were. An average player should be able to come out of fights with mobs above their level sometimes. Good players will be should be able to do it fairly often, however, you should be severly injured in either case. In neither case should you be able to solo mobs far, far above your level. Changes happen, get over it. Just because it's always been the way it is does not mean it should have been that way in the first place. The addition of every area and most code changes (the fight system, new skills and spells) have increased the power and flexibility of characters. Areas don't keep up very well. Consider how long it took to find mobs using elbow and choke. It was said that there was nothing in the area worth doing/getting other than getting experience. That simply shows how little you know about the area and how high you value easy experience. There was a problem with keywords for mobs. That will be fixed at the next update. I personally get frustrated when I am not able to interact with mobs whether it's to ask a question or to strangle it. There was a statement that only imm morts have said they liked the changes. In fact, I have positive comments from more players than there are players complaining. Unforunately, their voices are being drowned out in the deluge of complaints. I would like to thank everyone who has complimented the area. - Wraith

From: Adolfus Thursday, January 07, 09:23PM

I've liked this area from the start. I think in general, the problem was that, whether its a valid arguement or not, players felt this was an excellent xp area, and given the xp situation as a whole, that it was more important to up the xp on mobs that give to little than take xp away from mobs that give too much. Thats the main reason I said anything about the change to somme, just for the fact that players really liked it, and it gives good xp etc, and players happened to mention this on boards, how it gave much better xp than other areas, and what happens it gets reduced. I'm sure the changes were actually good and inline with legends other areas, but that won't change how the changes are percieved. In light of the xp situation.

From: Danar Thursday, January 07, 10:00PM

I love the new Somme, personally. It's way cool. Danar

From: Wraith Thursday, January 07, 10:02PM

The adjustments to mob difficulty were mostly complete before any mention of the area was made on boards. I feel that the mobs were much to easy for the experience they gave. I also have said that I would adjust the difficulty up or down as needed. I used a character below the recommended level for the area and was still able to get good experience. I fail to see how the changes I made could 'ruin' the area for experience unless you happened to be able to kill mobs there while at a very low level. If that could be done, then the mobs need to be fixed. - Wraith

From: Mandarb Friday, January 08, 07:15PM

Just whats your idea of good experience? if it takes you 4 hours t level from level 20 to 21, in MY eyes, thats too hard. What about your eyes wraith? - Mandarb, doesn't care alot but is slightly annoyed

From: Wraith Saturday, January 09, 05:21PM

If you are having fun, it doesn't matter how long it takes. Should it matter if it takes 6 days instead of 6 months for an average player to read level 50? Definitely. If you can read level 50 in 6 days what does it mean? Absolutely nothing. So what. You reached level 50 and now what are you going to do? Sit around bored? If it were easy to reach level 50 what would you have to say about it. It's not a worthy accomplishment if it's easy to attain. I've heard players say they want to explore the abilities of the different types of characters. While I can understand that, they seem to forget that playing characters at low levels is part of exploring the abilities of the character. Then there are those who are 'experienced' and don't want to play at the lower levels. What can I say? If you are bored at the low levels, you're going to be just as bored at the high ones. The point of updating my area was not just to bring it into 'spec', but to make it much more interesting to play in as well. I imagine that if you dislike mobs that talk and are more intelligent than they used to be, then you will not like having more quests to solve. You will not like having more richness to the world or its inhabitants. Legend appeals to a large variety of players. A large part of its appeal is from its difficulty. A large part of its longevity is due to the same thing. I'd like to keep Legend around longer. - Wraith

From: Asmodean Sunday, January 10, 06:42PM

I get the feeling here Wraith that you feel you are perfect or something. Though I really don't care one way or another, your pretty much ignoring the opionons of others, telling them how they MUST feel, wheather they do or not, and telling them, in other words, i'm right your wrong so shut up. Doesn't seem like a very good attitude, especially for someone with so much responsiblity -cough- to the people of legend. I don't care what the hell you think. You don't care what the hell i think. makes it hard to make anyone happy doesn't it? And I'm sure your going to say, "But I do care what people think", and then I'm going to refer you to your own post. Anyone who has said anything about this has been shot down by you. You seem to think you know everything when in fact I feel you know very little. You seem to have extremely poor PR skills and might just wanna let people do there bitching and not say much cuz you kinda make it worse. And about the level 50 time thing. I feel that time shouldn't matter. If your good enough to do it in 6 days, great. FUN does matter, and kililng 908037843084 mobs to level once is NOT fun, by any damn strech of the imagination. If this mud is here for different types of players, start acting like it instead of just making it for those who want there character to be progressing until the cows come home. I personally HATE the low levels because mages blow ass at them. If you'd make mages not suck so damn much, maybe that would be at least one class taht wouldn't be so dreaded to play at the low levels. Fighter, geez, what negatives do they have? Not alot, and snipers even less. But thats not what this post is about, so lets stay on subject. Killing mobs is not fun wraith, get it out of your head now. The only levels I truely enjoy are levels 45-50. I level past them all, not giving a care in the world, because mob killing sucks the WORST at these levels. And to tell you the truth, WRAITH, level 50 is actually quite fun for me. With a mage at least, xp is much easier at level 50 then any other level I tried at and its almost rewarding too. Though meditating is a bitch its definatly better then sleeping forever. So about your comment saying if you don't like low levls you won't like high levels: Well... big surprise but, WRONG AGAIN. Now i'm sorry if this sounds so aggressivly derogitory towards you wraith, but personally, You've really played god a little to much lately and maybe not enough without the "purge" command. -Me

From: Adolfus Monday, January 11, 01:37AM

I think you protest a bit too much Wraith. Get over it. I think the only thing anyone was complaining about was the lowering of the xp and raising of the hp, not your adding different names to the mobs and quests etc. So get off it, step down of that big high horse. Right now I like the xp scale at lower levels, I agree the privates were too easy. In fact, just about the whole mud is too easy, only thing is you don't get much xp for high level mobs anymore. Death now really isn't hard to overcome, used to be a couple deaths at low levels put you in an xp hole that would make even some of the most dedicated players beg for help. Now its changed, the hard part comes when you reach 40 or so. Just a few weeks ago, someone was begging me to level them, and being pretty stuborn about it too. They had spirit earrings they were carrying around, heh, that were talking up their rent. They had made a couple good choices in that they had picked con first, after talking with them awhile and convincing them they could be independant in this system, and giving them some basic con eq and telling them to just headbutt and keep obtaining more con, in only a few weeks they had surpassed 35. I think you explained the changes you made, I for one am satisfied that you feel you did it for good reasons. I have yet to check the area out since then, but I trust you reevaluated your l50 mobs xp also.

From: Siachet Monday, January 11, 03:01AM

Wow, your appends, Asmodean and Adolfus, are pretty amazing. Mandarb explicity demanded that Wraith state his opinion on something, which he did, and then all you do is rant about how you don't care what he thinks, and tell him to stop protesting and basically to shut up. But if he didn't state his opinion I bet you'd flame him for not responding to Mandarb's post. Mandarb asked for his opinion, if you don't want to hear his opinion, don't bother to read his response. Sia

From: Adolfus Monday, January 11, 03:31AM

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression, but what I specificially objected too, was wraiths tone that anyone objected to him improving the area by adding individualality to the mobs, making them intelligent etc. I think mandarb was making a rhetorical type question, but I could be wrong, but anyway seems wraith dodged the question by saying he didn't feel it mattered, if you was having fun. Then basically stating he was doing his part by making legend a bit harder. Which I have no problem with, Id much rather see harder mobs, and more xp to level, if we could get smore intelligent mobs and maybe a charm spell. Your sorta right though, I consider a bullshit answer worse than not saying anything at all. I see no problem with it taking more than 4 hours to go from 20 to 21, actually, and I agree that making getting to l50 harder does make it more rewarding, but at the same time the new xp system is much easier than before, it just postpones the difficulty till l40 or so, and in fact it isnt really difficulty at that point, but a broke system, in which most of the mobs havent been reevaluated xp wise. So you see I don't agree with Mandarb, do agree with Wraith in theory, but question some of his reasoning, I guess youd say.


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