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New thread, cuz i hate following threads

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Posted by Mo on 01/13

Regarding some posts about pkers being evil, and cocky: I've started playing Legend in the fall of 95, having stumbled upon it while i was trying mud clients for medievia (it was pueblo). I stuck to this mud cuz there wasn't any classes, and mistakes seemed rather easy to fix (boy was i wrong) in a class-less system, plus i liked the rent idea instead of paying it in coins. I've clanned my first character in the spring of 96, i think, and i sucked. bad. with that character all i did was pretty much lose, while getting extremely lucky at times to pull off one or two wins. At the same time, my mobkillers were having a ball, lvlling quite easily. It seemed odd to me that i was having success in mobkilling but not in pk, so time and time again i'd try pk after learning a few tricks in mobkilling. truth to tell, none of my newfound knowledge helped any, and i can pretty much guarantee you that it isn't in what you know that helps you become a successful pker. The thing that's paramount in pk is the experience and the attitude that comes with accepting you suck at something you know about. Not like being a newbie, since you know the place and the system, but somehow they fail to apply as neatly as they would in pk. All the intangibles that only mattered slightly in mobkill -- the feel you have when you KNOW you should flee, the feel of doing a certain amount of damage, controlling your adrenaline while walking into an agg-area -- become paramount. And as any pkers would tell you, pking is a whole lot different from mobkilling for most players, because most ppl who mud avidly develop a kinship with their chars that must be deadened as you dip in more pk. Mobkillers don't understand how ppl could be so ruthless in jumping an unprepared person -- the truth is, pkers don't quite remember the time when they felt as bonded to their characters being an alternate ego -- most of us who have fun think of our pkers more as a different kind of clothing. RP tends to go out the window since effort usually leads to affection to your current char, something you can scarcely afford if you want to keep a cool head over the things that can and will happen while pking. (cont'd)

From: Mo Tuesday, January 12, 11:55PM

Then again, i could only be speaking about myself, and not the majority of the pk community :p Anyway, over time, pkers tend to separate themselves from the mobkill crowd, because they don't share the same feel towards the area. It is odd to hang out with folk who putter about at 1hp and sleeping at inns while you are constantly checking the who list to see if you can afford idling or should make preparations for a visit. Since most mobkillers tend to be folk who are not currently pkilling, or never have (successfully or actively), it isn't too odd to find that most pkers will have an air of superiority -- which usually decays to total indifference to unclanned opinions. Ask any pker, and they'll tell you that you can only judge if you are still active. not not-enabled or once-enabled, but currently enabled and active. balances shift, and even ooc alliances change rather often (given that you view matter in an RL time-frame, not online time-frame) -- i've personally have had different allegiances over the past years. Above all, pkers bond. Not all, but a good number of them that are 'mature players.' Most of us have respect for each other even if we fight both ooc and ic -- be it grudging or not. If we didn't, how else do you think it is that the same crowd can keep making new chars? I mean, gee, i see this guy i hate ooc making a pker who is lvl 40, and i'm lvl 50... let's perma him -- as far as i can recall, none of us really went that far as to actually say 'let's perma this guy before he hits 50.' sure, we might not feel bad about jumping him every now and then, but that happens to anyone. So for me, all those ppl who whine about pk being cruel and inhuman are simply ignorant. I've had chars that were detested by other players on this mud (not excluding this one) and still manage to reach 50. T-Bone, Zeus, Dusk, Stun.. they all have had chars reach 50, with or without ppl hating them, be it thru guile or industry. The point is, it is doable and obviously pk is worth the effort. (cont'd)

From: Mo Wednesday, January 13, 12:06AM

But, that doesn't mean pkers are without their gripes. Changes, small or big, influences pkers drastically. Be it an influence in competition or interest, changes are felt, mostly by pkers who happen to stand right on the change. Creating pkers is an effort, mostly because we strive to find a point where playability and originality are pretty balanced. You can tell veteran pkers from newbie pkers -- their chars are, if possible, more to the wackier side than the 'trend.' Some happen to be playing a trendy char simply because they were building the char before they were trendy -- or maybe thought to cast originality aside for a bit in order to compensate for their last miserable failure :p So we voice our concerns whenever a change is made, more visibly than others because we can't get the same enjoyment by simply switching to an alt that incorporates the new change. Unlike having a slew of characters archived and brought back whenever a change makes them playable again, we have to resort to perma'ing our char or recreating one, because the char that would have benefitted was retired (thru permanent means) a while ago. (cont'd -- muahahahah)

From: Mo Wednesday, January 13, 12:14AM

The point system is being suggested because it allows pkers to do what they WANTED to do while making it possible to retire their old characters in order to test future changes. Also, progress is not hindered by losses, which isn't the case when it's tied to xp -- a week's progress won't be wiped out by being adventurous or daring one day. A combination of xp and points, in my opinion, would be rather redundant. Calculate a scale down to 0 xp and points required, and simply remove the rest of the xp reqs, leaving only the point req -- having the incentive to accumulate xp instead/as well as points would deter ppl from pking, and see pking as a hindrance to 'progress'--something i'd rather avoid. Of course, you could have points worth almost nothing in terms of xp, but then the scale would be rather moot. Even with points, changing pkers won't be a snap. What it will be is it will allow pkers to pk actively while simultaneousl moving closer to retirement. Any argument in points making retiring easy is moot -- you simply have to set the required amount of points high enough -- 300 pts (100 pk bouts -- that is, if you win all the portions of it -- take a hell of a long time, and certainly you won't get that before perma if you multi yourself to get it). As far as separating pk and nonpk -- imho, nothing can be done to bring the two groups any closer as long as that distinction is in place. It's simple, really. You can or cannot, and the existence of codes that make sure that the two conditions don't overlap. True that pk damage is less, pk deathloss is less, etc, etc, but that's more because there is a problem in the mobkill system. Why is it that mobs become so much harder when they wield a decent weapon? Why is it that mobs are made such that they are so inherently different from players that it is rare to see them being closer to players? If mobs' stats were adjusted such that they represent the players at thsoe levels (giving them weapons, lowering their stats to take into account that they now do more damage, etc) then pk would not have to be coded that much separately. But since that is a lot of work, we avoid it and create new work as imms create mobs that play by their own rules. Players have to do that much damage because mobs are coded in a way that requires that much damage to be done to them in order to kill them, and also because they in return don't do that much damage when it's perceived as a solo mob. (if you noticed, a mob 'meant to be solo'd by most' rarely does anywhere near the damage a single player would. Why? Cuz we deviated from the very basic rule that governs newbies, "A perfect match" being 50% chance of one coming on top of the other -- which only seems to hold true at lvl 1) (cont'd -- -cackle-)

From: Mo Wednesday, January 13, 12:30AM

So unless you propose, or have plan to, make it such that mobs actually are more reflective of players, don't complain about mobkill and pk code being separate. The mud somehow got coded with the top button buttoned thru the second hole, and over the years, no one did anything about it, while the problem simply snowballed. In essence, there are really 3 different standards here, one that is applied when creating mobs, one when creating nonpk, and one that is applied when creating pk. If the standard of creating mobs followed the standard of creating nonpk, or vice-versa, there'll always be code that has to take that into account when coding pk. I mean, you are pitting two sainglends at each other otherwise. I think i've touched on (the power of understating) most of the issues i wanted to touch on, so let me take a break here :p (cont'd -- possibly... heh.)

From: Mo Wednesday, January 13, 12:44AM

oh yeah, on "pk is so boring, yet there are other pkers in range that are in conflict." 1 - they might have recently fought already -- fighting the same person over and over is not really too much more interesting than killing the same mob over and over... 2 - they might have fought each other to death too many times already -- same as 1. In essence, pk gets boring cuz the time it takes for a new pkchar to come into the scene is too long compared to the amount of spark they bring, mostly because the players remain relatively the same. Also, there isn't much to fight over after a while.. duelling is seriously only interesting when you or the other is trying their char out, and a too-ooc engagement has the risk of simply becoming trading of wolfpacks, which is really trying to have fun while trading blows with sledgehammers. For pk to be fun, there needs to be an atmosphere that is currently only shared by some of the lvl 50 folk, the carefreeness, such that there can be numerous random encounters with little risk of it becoming into trading wolfpacks.


1999 Topic Index