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Posted by Shiva on 01/15

The old auction system was actually taken out because of us oldbies -blush We were using it to transfer the 100k Minos used to carry out of Hell, because there wqasn't anybody on the MUD besides an immort that could carr carry that is, that much. However I don't see many ways for it to be exploited in that manner anymore, so why not reinstall it? Shiva

From: T-Bone Wednesday, January 13, 03:27AM

Definately, being able to transfer money, bandages or anything like that doesn't come anywhere close to being good enough reason to yank it in the first place.

From: Satsu Wednesday, January 13, 12:05PM

This is just my personal opinion on the issue, but it was my impression that the reason that auction was pulled was because it was being abused, that's all. As most of you know, when a system or a feature, or a bug is abused, we do what we can to either remedy the situation, or we pull it. (ponder comma usage) .. Auction was being abused, and the onl y way that I can see to fix it would require vast amounts of time and energy from the immortals in monitoring the channel. Rather than obligating ourselves to more work and monitoring, the system and method for abuse was removed. The auction channel was intended, as far as I know, as a method to stimulate the flow and transfer of goods. Is that purpose still valid? Probably not. The amount of good that auction caused was outweighed by the bad. As someone a couple posts ago said (I forget who, but it was in reference to the pkill system) [paraphrase] "If it can be abused, it will, people will find the holes in the system and use it to their maximum benefit." Auction offers too many opportunities for holes, and barring a complete shift in the demographic of our playerbase, auction will not be re-installed. Again, this is just my personal opinion and I'm not speaking on behalf of the mud or the immortal staff as a whole. Satsu

From: Ma Wednesday, January 13, 01:41PM

You know, auction systems are abused on most othr MUDs out there too. While it's possible to fix it quite easily I still don't think it's neccessary and you're just being tight assed about it.

From: Adolfus Wednesday, January 13, 01:53PM

Make the cash come out of bank accounts, make certain eq you would have to code another flag for that, but um, personally even that I don't see causing much of a problem. Id think it would be something you would definately need to fix sometime in the future before coming out of beta stage anyway. Id think a !noauction flag could possibly fix any forseeable problems. Can anyone think of problems it wouldn't fix?

From: Mariachi Wednesday, January 13, 10:32PM

Couple thoughts on this thread: Satsu mentioned something about demographic change, which I think has occurred, but probably not to a demographic of non-abuse. If that demographic exists, please let me know. ;) On non-auction items, perhaps easier than coding a new item flag could be to put a lower rent limit on what you can auction, reducing the likelihood of folk transferring ammo, bandages, etc, across the mud. Mariachi, the Minstrel Warrior of Quixote

From: Rufus Wednesday, January 13, 11:15PM

There is already a no_auction item flag. -Ruf

From: Ma Thursday, January 14, 06:51AM

Why even discuss possible fixes, why are you so obsessed with removing any 'convenience' that the old auction system provided?? It's almost as if you enjoy seeing players suffer with DT's, slow regen, xp loss etc. You know what the players would prefer but.. Is it your intention to keep the playerbase small or what?

From: Wraith Thursday, January 14, 09:06AM

Auction may go in with skill trees. Various problems with auction included selling bandages for 1000's of gold, selling bags with items in them, and using the auction house as a meeting place (the original auction house). - Wraith

From: Adolfus Thursday, January 14, 09:35AM

So I guess you can sell anything noauction by putting it in a bag. This happens a lot on medievia, not bandages, but bags full of food that go to chars that cant make food. Also bags with 37 green potions, which are cure critic potions. I really don't see much of a problem with this. If imms feel so strongly about it though, id say make it against the rules and make players report violations, but I guess that didnt work in the past. Cant all containers be made noauction? Wouldnt that solve the problem?

From: Ma Thursday, January 14, 09:39AM

Now name one that matters :P

From: Satsu Friday, January 15, 01:27AM

Yikes, where is all this pent up aggression coming from.. sheesh. Anyway, to get back on topic.. re: what players prefer and the futility of discussion and imms enjoyment of torturing players Yes, Ma, you are actually correct. We all derive perverse pleasure from spending hours and hours of our lives coding, building, administering and and pr'ing (?) a game that we are ultimately trying to destroy. Many players would enjoy it immensely if we handed out free experience, gold (albeit useless at the moment), coupons, and a plethora of other things. But we don't, why? Because it's not best in the long run. If we did everything that people wanted, we would have most sites on the internet sitebanned, and a very unhappy mud. We take what we hear, evaluate it, (to death sometimes) and implement the things that we feel add to the mud. Call us selfish, but that's what we're here to do. I can't believe we're still revisiting this point, or maybe it's just that we are required to visit it once every few months and it's my turn.. [Begin selfish diatribe] Most of the imms here have put in an inordinate number of hours on the mud, improving it, building it, and making sure it runs smoothly. The current heads of the departments, many of the full imms, and the Implementors Emeritus specifically have devoted enormous amounts of their lives to this particular venture, more than a lot of them would like to admit. And the grief that these people take for their effort astonishes me. How about, instead of criticizing them as individuals and the work they do, we work with them to find creative solutions to problems and appreciate the work that they do do. That might encourage them to continue, rather than attacking them personally. Sheesh. [End selfish diatribe] That's all I have to say.. for now. Oh, and good riddance -- ok, now that's all I have to say. Satsu

From: Lakespeed Friday, January 15, 09:09AM

Aside from T-bones agression, I don't see anything that you added to the discussion there Satsu. Having an auction would be good for the mud, period. I haven't heard any problems mentioned that couldn't be fixed. Also Medievia's noauction flag keeps things from being auctioned while being in a bag also. I don't want to attack you personally, oops meant Ma not T-bone yes Ma gets frustrated I think, but its partly because of posts like yours. You align this disscussion with players wanting free gold and xp? And other things you don't even mention while saying these things we want will cause the utter destruction of the mud. I don't buy it myself, the idea here is to discuss reasons to do or not do something. Personally if you have a reason not for bringing back auction that would destroy the mud, then lets hear it, I wouldn't want that, but if you just want to piss someone off and get the to attack you personally, then I would say posting fictionous hypotheticals would be the way to go. I anyway don't want to give anyone grief, but your post just reinforces the perception, that players are beneath you and can add nothing to a discussion about whether auction should be reimbed. In this post Ive specifically tried not to drop to a personal level bashing a post and not adding anything to the discussion. It would be very easy to get pissed and fire off something on the board that would just get others upset and drag the discussion through the mud and end any usefulness it had. I think its especially important for imms not to do this, you should try to take the high road, and post something instead like: Ma I don't think youve added much to the discussion, we imms are open to ideas, please dont trash us without adding anything to the discussion. I admit I very often fail to do this, and post something very angry etc, but its always in response to an imm post like yours above. I urge imms, if your not openminded don't post, and don't trash players on the disscussion board. Especially not players in general, I would think it far more appropriate to name names than to speak of the collective whole of players and say they are gonna cause the downfall of the mud if they get their way. If your really tired of revisiting why auction shouldnt be reimped, post the unfixable reason that it isnt. Or at least state the imms motive for not imping it and reasonings for same, and stop talking S---. Adolfus Sorry for posting with this char, was testing some things

From: Abigail Friday, January 15, 11:43AM

Its my understanding that the auction system was going in with trees under the auctioneer's tree ? I'm sure an immortal will correct me if I remember wrong.

From: Adolfus Friday, January 15, 11:51AM

From: Satsu Friday, January 15, 12:26PM

It was my understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, that it was a distinct possibility but not a forgone conclusion. re: adolfus I do not attack people individually or name names as you suggest because I don't think the problem is in individuals, simply. I should also perhaps clarify my personal position on the re-installation of auction. I do not believe that it will cause the utter annihalation of the mud, I do, however, believe that installing a system that can be abused is asking for headaches. And those are headaches which most of us mortals and immortals alike could do without. I'm not suggesting that the problems can't be fixed, they could with a great amount of effort and as much of a removal of the human condition as possible I suppose.. (although I'm not sure if i have grounds for that statement, more of a feeling) .. I'm not sure that they're worth fixing. Players have long lamented the loss of auction, heck, as most of the older players/immortals will tell you, I was one of hte loudest umm.. lamenters of the loss of auction. But I stand behind what I said, that installation of a convenience, while broken, does us no good. Especially when I haven't heard of a way to keep people using it in the fashion in which it was intended. Satsu


1999 Topic Index