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Saving spell affects!

1999 Topic Index

Posted by Mo on 01/25

More than availability, rent on all those potions and vials and herbs should be reduced. At 500 rent a pop, it's waaaaaaaaay unfair for fighter chars if they can't rent effects out -- and obviously disorient is going to be really really really powerful once that goes in. I don't think I have had too much trouble in PK simply because my target could rent off effects (I actually relied on that effect when getting rid of other ppl's see-invis, det. hid, det. ill and what not) yet i have had fighter chars who's had IMMENSE problems cuz he COULDN'T rent off effects -- due to bind, or having been placed overrent while blind (since you couldn't drop items while blind a while ago) and generally getting caught in areas with no exits (bog) Unless we plan to add quite a few saving rolls for each effect (which, i think, if we do it somewhat rationally, would overpower con) or sprinkle the mud with mobs that can cure poison (close to every inn, just about) this would be a problem for newbies. Also, there are way too many spells even the caster cannot control (sneak, detect hidden, etc) that prevent entry to OOC -- i usually just rent it out in my impatience rather than waiting 6-12 ticks to have it cleared, etc. Mmm. certain plants should be made available over-the-counter in more numerous places and sprinkled over the mud with as much abundancy as angelicas, too. I think instituting such a code change would be opening a Pandora's box in a world where we haven't even seen the hope in the dozen other boxes we've already openened. Mo!

From: Adolfus Wednesday, January 20, 11:32PM

Hrm was this announced over chat? Missed the original posting. I like affects saving over rent. Id also like to see !norent versions of each potion sold also, that would keep one from hoarding them up, but also allow one to carry as many as they needed. And I think its easy to rationalize, since potions should be kept out of cold hot areas etc. I wouldnt necessarily say make all potions !norent, the rent could be lowered, while adding a special potion container, that keeps them from decaying. A little no update potion container, all potions that are rentable could be made timed to justify lowered rent cost. Yah if you was blind you could not get them out of the container. Youd just have to keep one out, and keep the others from going bad in the box, and if you got blinded quaff and get another out etc. Im big on the idea, of being able to carry as many potions as I like, but don't like being overrent with them. As for not being able to go ooc, with spell effects. How about a command that clears spell affects, if there in your power to begin with. Ie fighters coudlnt clear any spells, mages could only clear the ones the can cast and noone can clear something like blind. I figure no mana cost needed. You could have a clearall, and clear individual spell affects. The basing it on whether you c can cast them on self is just an idea, it could be made that anyone could clear any beneficial spell affects. Ie just the stuff keeping them from ooc.

From: Rufus Thursday, January 21, 01:14AM

Speaking of potions, I reworked the rent spec on spells and scrolls just last week, so you will likely see a reduction in their rent cost. However, now that we can set price independant from rent cost, expect them to be around the same amount of gold. As far as affects saving over rent, there will be many changes that go into the system before we install that... they won't blanket save over rent, they will likely decay over rent as well (that is, if you rent out for 5 ticks and you had 8 ticks left on a spell, when you came back it would have only 3 ticks left). None of this, however, is written in stone. The code to support such is already in but we wanted ways of dealing with things such as newbies and poison like you mention. Accompanying this will likely be regeneration over renting as well. Again, nothing set in stone, there are still many logistics to be worked out with it before it sees the light of day. -Ruf

From: Rufus Thursday, January 21, 01:28AM

heh, and maybe I should read the welcome board occassionally, I'm sure many of the things I mentioned will be addressed in the Q&A. -Ruf

From: Fright Thursday, January 21, 08:45AM

Make a apothekar type character in every town that sells potions and herbs 24 hours a day, with low cost for something like a cure poison potion, and higher for things like cure blind and maybe even cure critical (for even more cash) Having these timed wouldn't hurt either. And most hometowns have someone that deals in this type of thing allready, they could simply have their lists expanded. (douban, Donnegal, apotheker, etc) Fright

From: LadyAce Thursday, January 21, 09:56AM

Affects saving over renting will be discussed at the Q & A which Rufus alluded to. I hope that the session will answer your concerns, or if you cannot attend, that your concerns will be answered by the publishing of the transcript in the LT. -LadyAce

From: Adolfus Thursday, January 21, 11:15AM

I really like regen, and decay while rented. Personally I find other things to do while, my char is sleeping for heal, but it would be nice for those that don't have the luxury of staying connected all the time, to be set to sleeping during the period they are rented.

From: Splerk Thursday, January 21, 03:38PM

-likes the idea of sleeping during renting, since you rent a room for the night- -thinks however this will be strange in pkill, penalizing people that wait in the inn for the other person to log back in- Splerk!

From: Mo Thursday, January 21, 04:11PM

Saving effects, decay and healing over rented would deal another heavy blow to healers. Why? Me, for example, have roughly 4-5 unclanned chars i can toy with at any given moment, maybe more, maybe less, depending on the circumstances. I could mobkill, and instead of healing by sleeping or getting a healer, i'd rent and play another char, and repeat the process til the first char is fully healed. In pk, if i knew that ticks were going to go off while rented, i could make a non-healing char and rent, then log an unclanned to measure ticks (so that i'll be full again) then log back. A safe room of safe rooms, if that were to work. Not to mention timed eq. Now ppl with timed eq will be forced to play at least once in a while, logging only to preserve their eq. And if we don't make it decay, instead of healing and regenning while the timer ticks down, they could simply rent. One last thing with that would also be things like crashes. I have no idea how often those progress will be saved (healing while rented) but unless you save it every tick (not to mention keeping track of everyone that is rented) could be at least somewhat renty, or, if not, a crash could probably hinder progress made. Mo!

From: Adolfus Thursday, January 21, 04:28PM

You could do it like going afk, you dont void till your fully healed. You tick till you hit this voidpoint then your rented like normal, that way, timed items would only lose a few ticks. As for Mo's post, I dont see any of that as particular drawbacks. I have a pure fighter, and I sleep to heal every time. Since there is a norecall safe room, it wouldnt change much, in that respect. Hell anyone could do this now, if unclanned, just make a trigger to sleep, then when you void, wake and rent. These changes dont strike me as anything to get excited about. Though they would be cool.

From: Mo Thursday, January 21, 04:40PM

it's not the fact that you simply sleep to heal, but you can change chars while doing so as well. as a clanned, that means you can heal while seeing what the atmoshpere is like as an unclanned, roaming around -- hell, some do this even now, except that their pker doesn't get healed. I can see a certain player simply renting, playing their alts til he figures his pker is healed, then entering the game. it's pretty darn silly as it is that pkers can get away so easily (sans elbow) and probably why healer-pkers are really doing much better than they should -- barring lag or scrappage of key items, anyone that wants to run can pretty much run. another thing is that cause pkers are most vulnerable when struck righ after they rent (they are sans their prep spells) and this change would make them more competitive -- especially if creates don't get their spells extended past rent, such as demons (if those get extended, esp with them staying around permanently -- they should have a code added where they'll randomly stand up and wander around if enough time passes them to void). Also, instead of pkers complaining that somebody ran away to heal, there'l be innumerable amounts of pkers who will simply rent at dying to prevent t their death. as frustrating as it is not to get a killing blow sometimes, this would make it a lot more frustrating. What is the benefit of having these effects save over rent? They get rid of the fighter's ability to instantly rid spells while providing them with a very easy to reach safe room -- no recall, no nothing. Housing would be moot under this case, who needs a safe house when anyone (pk) could simply rent and heal? If we have it charge per amount it heals, then it'd be unfair to folk who had to leave on immediate notice, too. In general, i see very little benefit compared to the ludicrous amount of bad effects it would bring (mostly in pk, but marginally to healers as well). Mo!

From: Bryn Thursday, January 21, 10:52PM

I could see this seriously damaging straight fighters in pkill. First off, not everyone has the rent to tote around potions. My str/dex could only rent one potion at a time, and couldn't brew, which meant that if he couldn't rent out affects, he was pretty much up a creek. Lowering the rent on potions would help this, but this brings me to my second point. Having affects save over renting would raise the experience bar necessary to pkill effectively, in my opinion. For a beginning pkiller, it's hard enough to type in commands without your hands shaking so much as to prevent coherence. And as a beginning pkiller, getting hit with a blind was a cause for enough panic as it was, but I always knew that if I could find my way to an inn, I'd be alright. Of course, this was back when you couldn't see at all when blind, it's a lot easier now. Still, I don't think I would have had the presence of mind to have a potion ready, quaff it, and get back into the fight. Pkill's a difficult enough game to break in to, even in the best of conditions. If newbie pkillers had to worry about not being able to rent out blindness/bleeding/poison etc., I would worry that it would be even more discouraging than it sometimes can be even now. Bryn.

From: Sterling Friday, January 22, 12:07AM

One note on the rent of potions and lack of rent space. I think that if you chose to load your equipment with high rent damroll and/or hitroll items,then that's your choice. And you should then deal with the fact that you'll be unable to rent alot of vials. However, if you wish to rent alot of vials, then you should adjust your items and rent accordingly. Sterling

From: Adolfus Friday, January 22, 08:37PM

Well at first I thought the way they would do it, would be that you would come back in the game exactly as you were when you rented. As for getting away and healing, theres nothing wrong with this, and if anything the mud would be moving toward making it even easier to get away and heal. You realize most muds dont have a hunt skill, at least not one that never fails and allows you to track ppl super long distances. Be thankful for that. Being able to get away is good and its always been there, kinda like chess, if your opponent only plays for a draw then they are twice as hard to beat. Right now even though you dont heal when you rent, it is effectively the same as healing, as you can rent and stay out of the game for longer than someone is willing to wait for you to come back. Some of you may say ah, but im patient, im the same way and have waiting an hour or two for someone before, but if i rent out and come back 24 hours later and your there, ill just laugh at you for wasting so much of your time. So if one wanted to log on another player and do something else, they are safe. Its always been that way. As for not being able to rent off bad spell affects, well um geez, thats too bad being able to rent off blind is lame, and of course this system thats proposed will allow you to rent off blind it will just make it so you have to stay rented till it goes away. I think this only takes 5 minutes or so real time. Basically if you are new to pkill and something happens rent, if you come back in the game before affects are gone your silly, and if you wait for affects to go away and then come in game your asking for it. Much better to wait a few hours. As for ppl running away and healing, so what, you do this too Mo, healing I mean. If you cant kill someone before they can rent, you blew it, they got away. As for them logging in on another char, I dont know about you but if I did this I would go find something else to do not worry about you, this is basically cheating isnt it? Only annoying ppl come in and give you tells with their alts etc. If you feel someone is spying on you with an alt confront them about it, or go someplace and heal. I think these are really nonissues. Likely this will make it so someone is more likely to fight while clumsy or weakened etc, or will rent cure blind potions, or will head to a safe room, or will rent and stay rented. Having to stay out of the game for 5 or 10 minutes is penalty enough for getting blinded, and whats more maybe you will have to stop blinding someone if you really want them to stay and fight. Ie if you cant kill someone after you blinded them before they can make it to an inn, maybe you should save your blind spell as a last resort.

From: Mo Saturday, January 23, 08:20PM

Mmm. Among the things that saving affects over rent could cause is that of people never renting, but going ooc with a void trigger -- if items were to decay while you are rented, plus the fact that affects eventually run out, i could picture a lot more 'inactive' characters that are online. Renting out blind and other various effects -- fighter chars will probably end up renting a ton of cure-whatever vials, but where would you draw the line? Do you lower the rent of such to an extent where a fighter's potion supply could easily outlast the mage's mana? If not, what's the point, sooner or later the fighter will rent anyhow. As far as getting away goes, this mud has a wicked way of queueing commands, so if one were to type in certain directions really quick, they'd go through long before an offensive move by another would go throug , not to mention hunt lag making it virtually impossible (unless you've go t a killer ahunt and lagfree link) to try tracking down an opponent who is running from you. As far as this being put to place 'cool' effects such as diseases and stuff -- maybe i'm totally delirious, but when i was a newbie, i had but one char, and with mobs that effect you with diseases abound at a newbie-lvl or mobs that poison pretty nearby, i can see this place becoming even less friendly to newcomers I mean, let's say i create a char from klein, i find a mob that count's as a perfect match, boom! i'm affected by a disease, and gee, nobody can tell me an easy way to get rid of it, but instead they suggest i rent for 10mins, then come back?! I remember what ppl's response was when i offered "go ld, then wait 30 mins or so" as a solution to getting stuck in the bog. no way. cool effects, maybe, but at what cost? I guess regardless of the change, us old players won't really get affected -- we'll quickly find ways to go around them, or create chars to deal with them, if the changes are debilitating -- since we are hooked here. And even if we do get a few cool effects, i am not so sure if many of us will get to see it lots after the intial ooh ahh stage -- they're either going to be too debilitating to persist on exposure (or too annoying) or just cosmetic that we won't care. Mo!

From: Adolfus Sunday, January 24, 01:58AM

Don't think theres really any way to justify items decaying after you rent. Unless its 1 tick equals 1 hour rl, until fully healed, couldnt argue much with that.

From: LadyAce Monday, January 25, 12:26AM

I know the Q & A log may not have been totally clear or easy to read, but it did include mention that items -will not- decay over rent, and that with poison and other affects being harder to get rid of, they will be move further from hometowns. Just a few quick comments, I'm sleepy :) -LA

From: Mo Monday, January 25, 11:49PM

mmm. diseases are VERY close to some hometowns tho.


1999 Topic Index