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Posted by Poetry on 03/30

I just want to through my support to Ma, and others that complained about the hit-tables being so in favor of people that are only a few levels higher. I have fough fights with lower level hard-hitting fighters, that landed most all their bashes, and specials, and managed to jump out of the way of a lot of backstabs, and avoid my arrows, and still died without much of a fight. Maybe Im wrong, but it seems the the hittables were changed from the old old system to keep people from warcrying the ticket seller at level 15 with 100 con, and getting a 9 round para and leveling off of one kill. Since, 5 level 15 mobs give more experience than your average level 40-50 mob, I assure you that no one is going to try to power level. I dont know if this is all the reason for the harsh hitable, but if it is, then please consider making the hitables a little more forgiving, so that a level 40, actually has a decent chance to kill a level 50. Poetry Modele

From: Gaidal Monday, March 29, 12:47PM

I wanna add my support here. These days almost everyone I fight has a few levels on me... some as many as 10. It is frustrating for me because the only damage I do is with my specials. I have quickly attacked and hit 8 times and had my target take 0 damage. Doesn't quite seem right to me. Not that Im gonna stop fighting or anything. Bring it everyone!

From: Poetry Monday, March 29, 12:53PM

Hm, Gaidal brought up a nice point that I didnt think about. I definately think that its silly to get a message that you "hit 8 times" when acutally you dont do any damage. It seems like you can just remove the "You quickly attack and hit x times" etc line, cause it never seems to give any accurate information. All it does is spam, and people get the damage message from the decimate, obliterate, etc line. Im sure that all the complicated rolls for parry, armor, hittables, etc, make it hard to have one line that says how many attacks hit, but getting a message that you hit in all 8 attacks, when you actually didnt hit at all is not good fight code. Poetry Modele

From: Wuss Monday, March 29, 03:15PM

You just 'hit' armor... and the attack how many times thing should be able to be removed as an option, not as a whole -- newbies gauge their progress with that line, more often than not. As far as hit tables go, it's simply dumb to have level matter that much when the pk range is so wide. Take a look at the log vs Dusk on McD's site, there are 3 rounds in which I did 0 damage, and that was with 39 or so hitroll. -Wuss

From: Ea! Monday, March 29, 05:51PM

What you're seeing when it looks like you hit and you didn't do any damage is hits that hit but are blocked by your opponent's armor. These qualify as a hit in the count as they look to the attacker like hits. -Ea!

From: Ton Monday, March 29, 07:34PM

I don't think the conflict in the hit message vs. the damage message is a big deal, but certainly the hit table is the main point of this thread. I suppose I can see why it is as it is now for mobkill. Killing a same level mob shouldn't be a walk in the park, and killing a mob 10 levels higher that you, should be very difficult in most cases. But IMHO, this doesn't really apply as much to pkill as it does to mobkill. Fighting someone 10 levels lower than you right now, is all but a guarenteed win for the higher level character, even if they have bad luck, and the lower level character has good luck in the particular fight. Maybe the hit table could be modified so that a 10 level difference in pkill, only penalized the lower level character half of what it does now. Ton

From: Maus Sunday, March 28, 07:21PM

This really only applies to pkill. As far as killing mobs go, maybe mobs that con as a perfect match SHOULD BE a perfect match, but face it, right now they're not by a long shot. If my chars stuck to levelling off mobs that conned as a perfect match, well, it'd take a lot longer than it does now. Right now, a ten or fifteen level difference between character and mob usually doesn't make a bit of a difference, unless the mob is unusually tough for its level (whether it has ungodly hp, or nasty specials, or tons of attacks or whatever). Which is why I'm sort of puzzled why the hit table seems to make so much more of a difference in pkill. Is it because pc's have a lower ac than most mobs, or something? Because I can't ever recall hitting all of my attacks against a mob and doing no damage, whereas in pk it's actually rather frequent. I'm not sure if separating the code between pk/non-pk is the way to go, but something should be done. Is there any way to adjust the hit table code in general and still have mobs be somewhat of a challenge while not making pkill fights between chars with extreme level differences a forgone conclusion? Maus Metzger

From: Wuss Sunday, March 28, 08:18PM

As far as mobkill is concerned, the only reason players level as fast as they do with the current hit table is that while regular attacks are fairly underpowered, skills are highly overpowered. Backstab, for example, with a heavy dagger can seriously speed up levelling process even against mobs that con as death. It isn't uncommon to find lvl 2 chars kick/fleeing mobs that con has death to them, simply because skills are comparatively overpowered -- with backstab and kick, you can hit for 0s and you are still fine. If we're arguing mobs being too easy, it's not really the hittable we should fool with, but the way skills do damage. It's pretty

From: Maus Sunday, March 28, 08:55PM

Erm, yeah, Wuss, I agree. I thought that was sorta the logical conclusion of my argument. Hit tables make comparatively little difference vs. mobs, but a comparatively large difference vs. players. The difference between mobs and players, discounting intelligence, is skills--players have them, mobs don't. Which is why a lvl 40 mob with a nasty special is going to be tougher than a generic lvl 50 mob--it simulates the player's ability to use skills. Maus.

From: Wuss Sunday, March 28, 11:17PM

mmm. lost link. anyway, what i meant to say was that hittable should be adjusted so that it doesn't take into account levels as much, but instead give skills a look. so instead of making separate hittables, like maus seems to be suggesting, just make one that doesn't take into account lvl diff as much, but instead revamp skills a bit -- yeah yeah, skill trees again -- or just make more mobs more likely to use skills. A mob that doesnt skill is, regardless of how hard it hits and how much hps it is, never really a challenge (you can always plan against them too predictably) whereas those savannah mobs can always be a bit deadlier the next time you fight them. oh yeah, and if possible, make it so that they actually friggin skill instead of 'acting' cuz acts are just downright buggy -- they go off while the mob's stunned, entranced, dead, and not in the room depending on the timing of the killing blow. -Wuss

From: Bryn Monday, March 29, 11:53PM

It's especially nasty with strength chars. Sometimes I can't hit a bloody thing. Bryn.

From: Ton Tuesday, March 30, 11:44AM

Well, thats sort of the idea behind strength fighters Bryn, hits hard, but has trouble landing.


1999 Topic Index