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Posted by Wuss on 04/09

xp is tedious, no doubt about it. no matter which way i go around it, it's the same. yeah, it's not hard, not even at higher levels -- you can easily tack 1 lvl or so in an hour of mobkill. But it sure as hell is tedious. grouping helps, because then you get to keep yourself busy for a longer period of time before waiting to regen/repop, but it doesn't really reduce time or work -- you just get to delude yourself a bit that you're actually socializing or something when you aren't. face it, if i wanted to socialize and be chummy with people, i'd go offlin e. i'm here to have fun, and babbling with others when my sole purpose is to create an equipped lvl 50 pker is pretty silly. not to harp on the other folk who are here for their own reasons, but xp is too much a chore, regardless of your knowledge of the mud. i persona lly had no problem with powerlevelling -- this is, after all, a beta where ppl look for different things all the time. if anything, i think quest xp should be upped greatly to make them more than worth their while. currently a quest means nothing more than 3 relat ively easy to kill mobs -- good for some last-minute laze, but not more. The xp scale should be looked into. The non-decreasing xp for lower-than-t he mob kill was nice, my lvl 2 chars can hit-flee death will thank yous and level in 3-4 regens. The same should, imho, apply to higher level char s as well -- it's frustrating to have your gear beaten to smithereens and lose tons of hps to get 60-80k in return. wuss

From: Wuss Wednesday, April 07, 02:14PM

jeez, look who hasn't written on boards for a while, that's the second time this week i've 'wrote' instead of 'append'ed. wuss

From: Myrella Wednesday, April 07, 05:47PM

From: Leatherface Wednesday, April 07, 08:25PM

I agree, xp is a pain in the ass. It would be good to be able to regain xp lost without needing a tform monkey and a group every few xp runs to replace no-repair eq. Mob kill really does take the fun out of it for me (for Sandra and others who may say the same thing 'yes, I like eq and I am not saying that mobs should be taken out ;) I like the quest xp idea a lot, and think that death xp loss should be lowered, for sure. (shrug) What I like or think dosn't matter though -=Yet? ;)=- Leatherface.

From: Maus Wednesday, April 07, 11:30PM

Mmm, I'm thinking and writing on the fly, so this might be a bit long-winded, but bear with me. I think the problem of tedium, and of the comparative difficulty in levelling different ranges of characters (ie low range, midrange, high range) isn't so much that the xp scale is out of whack, but that the ratio of character spiffiness vs. mob spiffiness isn't a straight line but rather peaks at several points in a character's development and levels or hits troughs at other points. For example, a character increases rapidly and radically in capability between 1st and 15th level. At 1st level, a character is the weakest of the weak, and will have a hard time killing anything above his/her own level. At 15th level, a character is eligable for advanced weapon skills, can easily have 100 or close to it in their primary fight stat, have negative ac, a few nifty spells, etc etc. Put it this way-a level 15 character is much more powerful than fifteen level 1 characters. Whereas that level 1 character had difficulty killing much beyond his own level, a level 15 character can kill anything his own level or below, and can often kill mobs a great deal higher than his own level with little trouble. This makes for quick leveling. It seems clear that level 15 is a rather large peak. However, between 1 and 15 there are also many smaller peaks. For instance, level 2 gives you your first fight skill. Level 5 gives you a basic weapon skill. Level 10 gives you stats. The impression, therefore, is that between 1 and 15 a -lot- is happening. There are similar peaks after level 15, most noticably 25, for mages, and 35 for everyone. However, these peaks are more spread out, thereby giving the impression that not much is happening. Therefore, while you may be levelling just as fast at level 27 as you did at level 9, it seems like nothin' much is going on, so it's boring. You're doing the same old things you've been doing for the past 10 levels, give or take a few, nothing's new, and you wish the process could just be speeded up. N.b. the reason high level mobkill can be so deadly dull is because after level 35 there are -no- more peaks to attain. Level 50 is a nominal peak, of course, but except for things like hp, mana, a the hittable, and whatever nifty gear your higher rent may allow you, a level 50 character is fundamentally no more powerful than a level 35 character. A well made level 35 character will have the same abilities as a level 50 character. This isn't to say that a level 35 char will be able to compete with a level 50 char, but this is where things like the hittable makes a difference. I realize this is getting long, so I'll make my second point. The xp scale as it is currently implemented doesn't allow for this model of character developement, in which characters experience peaks of capability, but rather assumes that characters are getting linearly better with every level. To use my previous example, a level 15 char is fundamentally equally powerful as a level 24 char. Therefore, it behooves the level 15 char to kill mobs which are designed for the level 24 char to kill (this is not a specific example, it's merely illustrative), whereas the level 24 char is probably not that much better at killing those same mobs than the level 15 char. However, the level 24 char has gotten used to the quick levels he got when he was killing mobs far above his level as a spry young level 15. It's becoming harder and harder to kill mobs above his own level because he isn't becoming more capable, the number by his level in score is merely rising. Therefore he resorts to killing the same mobs he's been killing, levelling slows down, and he gets frustrated. Again, please realize that this was all off the cuff. I realize this is likely disorganized and hard to follow, and if anyone's interested I'd be happy to try to clarify any of the points. I might just try to write it out more clearly for the next LT. Maus' player.

From: Maus Thursday, April 08, 12:48AM

Also, before anyone jumps on my back and says "My level 45 Widget-wielding Spellslinger levels faster than he ever did at level whatever"-- I realize that my previous post was full of total generalizations, and will in no way represent the experience of every single character on Legend. Certain types of characters experience peaks at different points than other characters. And, of course, certain types of characters are just wimps :P However, I think in general, my model holds true. Maus' player

From: Wuss Thursday, April 08, 01:42AM

mmm, i agree, there is no character progression beyond a few levels. lvl 1, you're simply pathetic, i don't even bother -- i just hit xp rooms and be done with that silly level. a character is waaaaaaay too helpless at level 1 -- there should be SOMETHING, imho, other than wary/agg that can be done. shooting is a joke, as we all know, at lvl 1, and pointing wands don't come handy if you're doing solo :p at level 2, if you are dex-anything, you just learn kick, and you're set. that skill should probably be moved to a higher level IF we get something else -- backstab/kick/flee with somebody that can learn the skill naked, you are set to level fairly fast. From here, the levels are mostly for rent -- at lvl 12 or so you can hit 100dex, and i'm fairly sure the other combat stats aren't that far behind. Not to mention 100 is overkill anywa y -- from experience, 60 is plenty. so you go on and on, until you hit 35, after which point your character has really 0 room for improvement in the 'feel' arena. sure, you get a better hittable, hps, mana, more spell levels, more rent, etc, but from my experience, your char strategies are pretty much stuck after 35. So what do we do? Skill trees! yah! but before we actually get to skill trees, why not introduce at least some of the skills that will be implemented under skill trees? If the entire system is going the wazoo, why not add a dozen more things that are 'planned' without their little 'getting more proficient' in them perks? Look at pkill. Rarely do you see a pkill fight where pkers actually ponder over what skills to use. I mean, c'mon, people friggin headbutt each other when they KNOW the other person is 100 con as well. anyway. and, regarding unclanning -- there should be simply a quest that allows a character to unclan, that takes RL days to complete. Unclanning should be an option for anyone at any time -- probably a system where the mud keeps track of how many times you've been info'd (left/right) and reflect that in the RL days it takes for one person to unclan or something wuss

From: Davien Friday, April 09, 12:48AM

Gotta agree with Maus on this one, and Wuss for that matter. I pretty much have the feel of characters by about level 30 though it does vary with class, but they rarely get that much better after level 35. My hitters generally swap blue things for bone things, copper things for crusty things etc, which helps with those big mobes that have to be killed to get any sort of exp but the people themselves don't actually feel any different. In point of fact, a level 29 sniper/surgeon of mine was 40Kish away from level in Tara the other day so I took on the woman there just to see if I could and she was pretty easy really. Sure it took some time, but the result was never really in doubt. I guess I just want to say that I think this thread is right on the money, but I don't really have any good suggestions on what to do about it. Well, workable suggestions anyway. Davien Holyoake.


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