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1999 Topic Index

Posted by Flower on 05/02

ok. now I hardly ever write on any of the boards, even though I do read them. A lot of you may know me, and a lot of you may not. Normally..I'm a really nice person..but you know what? in this case I have to say...Jean..give it a break! God man! Get off your high horse will you? I'm sick and tired of reading about how awesome and helpful you are and how much the rest of us suck. There are a LOT of people on this mud who stop to help newbies. yes ok sometimes some of them slip through the cracks, but for the most part, if you ask for help and are nice about it, you GET help. Have you ever thought Jean, that in your case, and whenever you ask for help for other people, you don't get help because you're annoying? you sit there all high and mighty and put us down, and you think we're willing to help you? umm you got another thing comin toots! -- Lady Flower Cat O'Brian's Player =^:^=

From: Lancelot Monday, April 26, 05:01PM

WOW calm down kitty -pet- -gives kitty bowl of milk- ahh now isnt that better =)

From: Lethargio Monday, April 26, 07:39PM

yeah, I know the feeling; they gotta understand that they're not going to get help every single time they ask. A lot of people here _do_ help a lot, but just not every single moment when they're online :P In my case, I help someone who asks on chat if I'm feeling helpful, or if I see theres a newbie who might need some help right in front of me, but I usually turn down those who blatantly ask me for a favor (eq, xp, et c.) Just don't expect to _always_ get help, you'll get it if you ask nicely an be persistant. Leth Er, the cut off was "and be persistant"

From: Leatherface Monday, April 26, 10:40PM

btw- 'persistance' dosn't mean spam tells/semi spam tells(every 5 min) Also, I happen to agree with Flower about you. I have heard nothing but criticism for our mud/pk system from an unenabled, inexperianced NEWBIE. Yeah, I don't care how many muds you have 'masterd', your a newbie here, buddy. You certainly arn't doing much to make friends, either, so don't be supprised when people laugh at you if ya want help. Leatherface.

From: Bronwyn Monday, April 26, 10:49PM

Personally I've never seen Jean ever ask for anything reasonable. I'm not saying he hasn't, I'm just pointing out that I'm here an awful lot and have never seen it. I have, however seen him spam until discussions were opened for him, insult the system the imms have worked hard over many years to build, and tell us that this mud, one which has won accolades and honorable mentions all over the virtual world would benefit from the suggestions of someone that obviously doesn't even care enough about it to try and play it himself. I think that in order to comment on a mud, you really ought to have attempted to learn it YOURSELF, not through a web page that gives away the info about it, not through attempting to 'talk' vital info out of people, not by having friends give you eq and money, and NOT by insulting the inherent system until you've at least seen for yourself whether or not it works. And, since Jean will no doubt respond to this, as he seems to think himself an authority, because he's played other muds... well... I've played other places too... I worked my way up to immort on 2 other muds, spending about 2 years on each, and eventually building. I've also been Head Builder on a different mud (a position I was offered due to my building on one of the previous ones) and then went on to start my own and serve as Imp... a mud which, sadly is defunct due to lack of a site... but which I'm also working on and revamping the code on with some help... and will open again soon. Oh, yeah, and did I mention I've played here for somewhere around 4 years... and have many, many, many hours logged. So, well... now that I've set out my mudding experience, I'll say: I never have played or worked on another mud as good as Legend, as far as the way the system works, and how well balanced it is. Neither have I ever played on one as friendly as this one once was. Sadly, it's not quite as friendly as it was, and a lot of good players have gone on to other things... but some of them are here, and many of the people I met here have become close friends. I don't think there could possibly be as many places as nice as Legend is in all its myriad aspects, and I couldn't begin to ennumerate them in a board post. In any case, I'll end my post by saying something that's not very in character for me, and perhaps rather petty and say: Jean, go bug some other mud... I, for one don't think you do a bloody thing here other than spam the boards and raise tempers. Bronwyn MacLaren-Ilnos

From: Jean Tuesday, April 27, 12:37AM

Flower writes: I didnt say that. But id like to say right now that some of the people on Legend are -very- helpful, helping me power level, no less. However, others are far less helpful, as when they wont even help a newbie find their way home but would rather talk about why they dont want to do it. If one asks a person personally, that works often enough for me anyways. chat only seems to be good when theres a real nice player on it. Actually, I get a fair amount of help. Ive made friends here and I now have a fairly good understanding of how this mud works to boot. I was actually more concerned about people whove been here a fair amount less then i- as some may have noticed, Ive had a -lot- of time to be on here- ive probably racked up about 100 hours with all my chars on here already. he he he :-). If you took a look around, you might see that recently, ive just been trying to maintain my credibility- there are many players here whove said that im not qualified enough to even voice my opinion. Anyways, you sound real cute Flower and I hope you dont stay upset with me.

From: Jean Tuesday, April 27, 12:37AM

in append 1 Lancelot writes: lol :-).

From: Jean Tuesday, April 27, 12:38AM

in append 2, Lethargio writes: If it has to do with levelling or eq, its understandable to a certain extent (though i think id try to help even here myself, if i wasnt busy writing a note or doing a group xp run). Neither do I, as Ive just mentioned.. What about the favour of being rescued? Some people dont like persistant players- they call them badgering. Asking a different player each time would be the best solution id think. Personally, Im glad I dont really need anything right now, because I dont like asking for favours much myself.

From: Jean Tuesday, April 27, 12:41AM

in append 3, Leatherface writes: Clearly, you havent been paying very close attention on all counts. Let me show you your mistakes: 1- I have done far more then criticism. I doubt anyone but perhaps the programmers on here have come up with as many ideas on improving this mud as I have in so short a time period. 2- Ive said more then once of how i think this is the best mud ive ever been on (and ive been on a fair number) 3- Ive been pk enabled on other muds (though not by choice) and -really- didnt find it to my liking. Ive heard some comments that pking on here is quite different but Ive heard of no evidence to date that that is indeed the case. 4- I may be fairly new on this mud (though at around 100 hours, im no longer the neophyte i once was even on this mud). However, Ive been on other muds for years and have played for atleast 1000 hours on them (probably more). And, ofcourse, im still playing this your way- with the assumption that only by playing on a mud for x amount of time can you judge elements within that mud. To me, thats like saying that we shouldnt go in Kosovo because we dont fully comprehend the situation- in other words, I think that some actions dont require in depth study to know that something should be done, though in depth study certainly is a good idea. And on that count, I think Im a master. Ive taken in -everyones- argument, absorbed what they said, found strengths in their arguments and weakness in my own and acknowledged both. By the same token, Ive also found weaknesses in their arguments and strengths in my own and pointed them out. Ive been arguing points since i was quite young and have rarely lost an argument- differing points of view are of immense interest to me and i think about them atleast a few hours each day- heck, i make little stories in my head, with different characters expressing their differing viewpoints to each other all the time. So in terms of discussion, I don t think im bad at it.. not bad at all. It amuses me that people come to this conclusion. As if you knew all the events that happen in my mud life. I once told someone here that I had about 5 friends on here, though none of them knew my life story. Thinking about that after I wrote it, I realized, however, that I actually -had- told someone on here my deepest secrets; true, the rest of my life story still hasnt been told, but its easier to tell.

From: Jean Tuesday, April 27, 12:44AM

in append 4, Bronwyn writes: Id be very interested in knowing your definition of reasonable. Id be interested in knowing your definition of spam too.. and your definition of insult.. i suppose your definition of playing is synonymous to xping? Because I -strongly- disagree with this one. I actually have xped, exhausted from trying to make this place better. Xping is a piece of cake for someone whos known muds as I have. Posting in this discussion group, however, can be very hard sometimes. When And when no one replies for a while or criticizes me over and over.. -that- is tough. I -do- learn it myself. I think what you mean is that I should learn it the hard way (why, i have no idea, but there you have it). To me, the lifeblood of any mud is the interactions between players. That includes relationships and discussions. In this area, I pour my heart out to the point of strong pain. Almost no effort is to great here, because this is the type of thing I live for. The rest is easy. EQ? Kill this or that mob. Money? Sell this or that item. Writing up a web page with item info? If someone came up with the idea and Andara hadnt already done such an excellent job, Id do it myself, because I -love- knowledge and obtaining it in a need to know basis; unless its better learned in a different way, as in, say a message, in which case id think starting from the beginning and working ones way through the appends would be the way to go. Ofcourse it works. Thats not the point. the point is that I think it can be improved and have made my recommendations along with my reasons for them. About your comments that youve been playing, immorting, building and all, I congratulate you. However, were not talking about building here per se- My best field clearly isnt that (ive never done it yet, though i am somewhat interested in it). Id argue that what I excel in is in figuring out how things should be done in a moral way and in just generating ideas. Ive done this since I was very little and think Im quite good at it; and go ahead, disagree with me, complete with points- I -want- to interact, even if its with someone whos criticizing me a fair amount. God, you remind me of the old Bronwyn I used to know so long ago. this intrigues me.. i havent heard this type of thing before. I wonder why you think its become less friendly. Well, youre entitled to your own opinion. If it makes you feel any better, then know that youve hurt me.

From: Bronwyn Tuesday, April 27, 12:46AM

I certainly don't think playing= killing. I'm a druid, I could HARDLY think that, but there's exploring, questing, more exploring, rping, questing, grouping, more exploring... You don't have to be level 50 to explore and quest, or have good eq. In fact, sometimes having good eq is detrimental... -chuckle- There's a lot to this place, it's too bad Jean spends all his time making posts and appending to boards to discover it. As for hurting his feelings... too bad... really... Most people would agree I'm pretty reasonable until someone gets under my skin, somehow.

From: Mac Tuesday, April 27, 12:48AM

spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam Enough of the bloody quoting!!! You could have said everything in one short append! ARRRRRRRRGHHHHH

From: Ton Tuesday, April 27, 01:08AM

Jean there are people here that have made more than 10 characters, levelled them to 50th, done whatever with them, and still don't feel they are as qualified to criticise the system, that you seem to think you are qualified to do, having played 100 hours. I can think of about 6 people off the top of my head with over 10,000 hours that have less than half the ego you seem to. You are not always right, your ideas bear little weight, and aren't going to be imped any faster because there are more of them. Take you time, think things out, and put together your dozens of lousy ideas, and try to squeeze out one good one. Don't just post ideas on a whim, that aren't thought out, because they will be treated accordingly. And for dogs sake, please stop that horrible quoting crap! Ton - as fed up as anyone is with Jean

From: Mac Tuesday, April 27, 01:14AM

Ok, I've calmed down now.. Something you should know Jean, there's been endless amounts of good ideas posted before you came along and there'll be plenty more that will won't be implemented no matter how good or even simple to change as there's supposedly a huge To Do list already. Perhaps after skill trees which is meant to be priority one and after other high priority things are done, you may see some of your suggestions implemented. Right now you're just wasting your time. Issues such as guns/bows being useless at 80 perc haven't even been looked at as far as I know. I'm one that would agree you needn't have played a MUD for a long time to see obvious flaws or areas needing improvement but difficulty in levelling doesn't really fall into that category. You probably would have come to the same conclusion before the xp scale change as it was even harder to level as a newbie then. You just wouldn't have known how easy was to level with help.. (1 kill/level for about 30 levels). Anyways.. you're just one of many who believes he or she KNOWS how things should be. You won't change my mind on how something should be just as I'm unlikely to change your yours. Forget about even trying!

From: Urg Tuesday, April 27, 06:17AM

just to make a point here.... I was the newbie from hell, I'd never mudded before and had no idea what one even was. I found out about them from a paper on internet addiction, (-whap self-). Jean you may not realise this, but it's more fun to explore when you have crud equipment, no money and no idea, I'd died on every continent in ancient before I was shown how to time trans, and I enjoyed it. You don't have to be good at this thing to have fun, and believe it or not helping someone who wants to get all the best eq and money, who wants to be levelled without doing anything or trying it for themselves is not high on my priority list. I like to help people who TRY to help themselves, mebbe you should try and work it out for yourself first before trying to get it changed. - Urg, who never posts, yet was inspired by annoyance. p.s the sheer amount of people you annoy may give you a hint as to what people think of you

From: Deirdre Tuesday, April 27, 08:45AM

Yeah, Jean, it's true, you've posted a lot of ideas. A lot of impractical, unworkable, unfun ideas. They certainly wouldn't improve this mud. At this point I think you should just maybe download the DIKU code and start JeanMUD. It'd be great--not eating makes you die, you have to have tools for -everything- and you can level to 50 in one kill! Of course, it'd have a playerbase of one, but that's another matter... Here's an idea of my own: we should have a lynch command! 15 people get together and form a temporary clan called The Posse. They use the "sheriff" command to elect a sheriff, preferably someone corrupt. Then they have to name the person they want to lynch with the "lynch set" command. If they can find this person, and if this person's level 15 or under, they can use the "lynch" command to delete the character. After that, Sandra can come out and say "Don't do that again." The Posse can show contrition by scuffling (command already imped!), and everyone goes home. In light of recent discussions, I think this idea should be seriously looked at :P I know who's first on my list! Who's with me, pardners? Sheriff Deirdre!

From: Rufus Tuesday, April 27, 09:09AM

Re: Jean and her 'many ideas': Ideas are cheap. Very cheap. 'Nuff said. -Ruf

From: Deirdre Tuesday, April 27, 10:23AM

Go Ruf!

From: Ronnie Tuesday, April 27, 07:00PM

What the hell is this? When did players start telling others to stop mudding because they arnt well liked? Sure, the posts get spammy, but its not half as bad as some of the stuff people do. A lot of people criticize the mud's systems, but you still dont tell them to go away. Whats your right to tell someone they shouldnt be mudding because you dont like the way they write?

From: Jean Tuesday, April 27, 08:29PM

in append 11, Mac writes: Or so you think anyways. Proving it would be another matter though.

From: Jean Tuesday, April 27, 08:32PM

in append 12, Ton writes: Again, were playing the game that the amount of hours you play has a direct positive correlation with the quality of ones critiques. Personally, I dont go for it, though youre free to present your case that it is indeed true. As Ive mentioned before, I think that even the idea that the more time you spend on muds in general, the more qualified you are to judge them has flaws. What I think is the true qualifier is someone who can hold their own in debate. You and others on here might argue that I dont, but Ive certainly been keeping up a lively discussion and I also know that not everyone would agree with you. Well, I like the seem word anyways. agreed. Or so you believe. Quantity certainly isnt a hallmark of an idea being imped, thats for sure :-p. I like to think my ideas are also pretty good, but clearly there are those here who dont think so. What I find rather amusing, however, is how no one to date has yet defeated me in a debate. Most of you may have more influence in getting your ideas put into play, but that doesnt mean youre more right then i am. well, you certainly do want to insult today. When youve been posting as much as i have, you -never- post on a whim. (rest of insults ommitted- note- check out the posting thread for more on why i quote).

From: Jean Tuesday, April 27, 08:49PM

in append 13, Mac writes: I can live with that. I still want to add in my comments now though- because priorities -can- be changed if enough people agree that they should be. Clearly thats a matter of opinion. I didnt quite get what you said there, but I was told that it was harder to level as a newbie alone but easier to level as a newbie in a group- Seeing as its not that hard for me to find a high level partner right now, I think I could have done much better on a system like that in terms of levelling. But I actually like the idea that you get less xp for power levelling- makes more sense, as one gets more experience in real life for doing rather then just watching or perhaps adding a little bit to a fight thats really being fought by a high level mob and ones high level friend. not quite. I think im right, ofcourse. Im open to points that would show that im mistaken., however. So far ive rebuffed nearly every attempt in that direction. When its clear Im mistaken, I do back off of the idea- case in point; some npher brought up the point that most people were helpful with newbies here. Id heard conflicting reports even from nphers, but I cant claim that I -know- how helpful people are here at all times. I can only bring up the 3 examples of newbies not getting help that I saw. Clearly I think its worth the effort, which is why i still try- but youre free not to listen if you dont want to.

From: Jean Tuesday, April 27, 09:51PM

in append 14, Urg writes: Why the whap? In any case, I found out about them through a former friend of mine- he didnt explain much, mind you. He gave me a little money, showed me where the leather shop was (i was a mage) and sent me on my way. It took me a -long- time to figure the rest out. But I did. Spent nearly 1000 hours doing it too. I now know how muds work pretty well; And, as ive said before, Ive come to the conclusion discussion is the lifeblood of muds. Been there, done that. I dont agree at all about the crud equipment and no money, but i must admit that areas used to hold a lot more wonder to me. Until I realised how dangerous some of them could be... slowly, that dulled my wish to explore. And back then, I didnt know about discussion boards. When I found those and realized their potential.. things changed quickly after that. I realized that the quality of a mud really depends on the freedom of discussion. Thats ok- their are plenty of people who do. Once newbies get themselves even a little established, getting eq to max ones rent seems to be not much of a problem. The rent limit -itself- seems to be the problem in that area. And ofcourse, all that xping.. What some people think of me sure. Doesnt mean im wrong though. And remember- prophets had a lot of people disagreeing with them too. Not saying Im a prophet, but maybe just a little ahead of my time on some things.

From: Jean Tuesday, April 27, 11:33PM

in append 10, Bronwyn writes: clearly it doesnt. Why couldnt druids think that? True. Now if the xping element could just be made less time consuming to get to 50.. Why, because you can lose it? Well, that risk is one Im clearly prepared to take. But when youre level 50, with good eq, exploring is a -lot- safer then when youre just level 6 (even with good eq for that level). Make levelling easier and people could explore in far more comfort at a far earlier stage in time. what exactly is wrong with discovering things in this way? Personally, I think its the best way- atleast for someone like me who enjoys a good discussion.. talking to people like you.. youre quite intelligent bronwyn; i saw that from the very first time i met you. It was you that really anchored me on this mud. Ironically, its you whos the most effective in ousting me voluntarily. yes, you hurt me; i wouldnt have told you that if i didnt like you; just trying to give you what you want- let me put it this way- hurt me enough and im sure youll be able to silence me, if only because ill be too depressed to post anymore. Yeah, well, youre not alone in this under my skin thing. only thing is, while youre apparently just irritated, im hurting.

From: Jean Tuesday, April 27, 11:35PM

in append 15, Deirdre writes: Clearly a matter of opinion on all counts. Lol :-). Maybe quests to get to the next level anyways. And even on here, not -everyone- minds the idea of having to use extra tools for added realism; if that process was automated, id think the unwantedness of it would be even less. I think things are a long way off from me starting my own mud- for one, im no mud programmer as of yet. But at some point in the future, perhaps. I wouldnt even -consider- doing a mud if i didnt have players besides me who were interested in playing it, so the above wouldnt apply. Great- rule by lynch; my, how weve progressed :-p.

From: Jean Tuesday, April 27, 11:35PM

in append 16, Rufus writes: bad ideas, sure. Good ideas, i dont think so. p.s. youd think an imm would check on the gender of a character, especiall

From: Jean Tuesday, April 27, 11:37PM

in append 17, Deirdre writes: spoken like a true corrupt sheriff :-p.

From: Jean Tuesday, April 27, 11:37PM

in append 18, Ronnie writes: :-). As for criticism, what im ideally trying to do is provide constructive criticism to improve this mud- im not saying im always successful, im just saying what im trying to do.

From: Embeth Sunday, May 02, 08:49AM

mob mentality? Sounds like the democracy and the democratic rights you seem so fond of Embeth ps note I sign at the end, so you don't have to scroll up to see who wrote it


1999 Topic Index