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Posted by Sandra on 05/04

Due to the NUMEROUS complaints about the difficulty in reading the massive, spammy posts that have popped up here lately, and the fact that previous posts to request said spam be cut down, I'm going to say this straight out. Keep your posts short, there is NO NEED for you to cut and paste every part of a previous append, its already there! Say what you have to say, and then end your post. Simple enough. -Sandra, the rather annoyed, and tired Head Admin

From: Wuss Tuesday, April 27, 03:10AM

From: Brew Tuesday, April 27, 11:23AM

Ok, wannabe Jean :P

From: Jean Tuesday, April 27, 06:55PM

Sandra writes: Hardly. Point 1- if people dont want to read my posts, they have no need to. I think thats the -real- problem, as Im now making sure my posts arent much longer then 3 word processor pages. But I know where this can lead to- you could say that others would start to copy me (i doubt it, but lets imagine)- so how about 2 word processed pages? Thatd mean a lot more appends on my part, but im sure seeing 66 appends instead of 44 or so wouldnt make that much of a difference. But why not just not quote, you say? I made the point with Wuss a while back- do an exercise- take out all the quoted material out of one of my posts, then give it to someone else, along with the previous post and tell me if they can understand it. The odds are slim to none, as I rely on the quoted material to provide context. Sure, I could paraphrase, but why paraphrase, possibly getting the meaning mixed up, when I could just quote? Thats the way I see it anyways. Lastly, I usually dont quote -everything-, but even if i do, the way I cut it up is just as important. <-Sandra, the rather annoyed, and tired Head Admin> I didnt mean to irritate you- sorry about missing your post 33 before- Ive been keeping rather busy with lots of post at present.

From: Agni Tuesday, April 27, 07:26PM

Which part of her sentence do you not understand? She is the head admin, and she has pretty much ordered you to stop quoting messages, period. If you don't like it, it's time to leave. Wuss

From: Agni Tuesday, April 27, 07:30PM


From: Jean Tuesday, April 27, 08:14PM

in append 4, Agni writes: I certainly didnt see it that way. But lets say that she makes it quite explicit, i still wont just stop- i think that thats past the area of being courteous to others and started to look an awful lot like discrimination for something that can be easily avoided- just dont read my posts; if you can xp ad infinitum, you can surely just read the starting post and skip mine (though i certainly agree that having the gag feature for certain people incorporate into next would be a great idea, especially for people like you who find it so stressful to glance over some quoted material) Why would I ever do that? Theres nothing more that I like then stating my point of view- if im wrong, i want to be shown to be wrong. And if Im right, well, i cant say I dont mind appreciation. And I -am- appreciated here, albeit not by everyone :-p. Most of my friends seem to be somewhat fearful of posting something and rocking the boat; possibly even fearful of being mentioned, so i wont. But, as Ronnies post in the Jean thread has shown, not -everyone- is against me, even on this board. And that means a lot to me. Sure, Sandra could delete this char, or ban me alright, but then she has to deal with the consequences of that action. Ive heard shes done similar things before, so there you go. Personally, I dont think shed win prestige for it, but ive heard that she doesnt care for it anyways. All Id ask her is to think whether itd really be the right thing to do- and justify it to everyone if she does.

From: Ton Tuesday, April 27, 09:20PM

The opinions of no one here seems to have any effect on what Jean does or does not do. Why bother trying? I think the gag for appends needs to be looked at a bit more seriously. Ton

From: Jealousy Tuesday, April 27, 09:40PM

-ponder- Maybe this is one of the reasons he was banned from those 2 other muds he has been bragging about being banned from? Just plain out not listening to others and then when he gets site banned he complains that the immorts there aren't liberal enough and don't listen enough. Maybe it was just that he refused to acknowledge what they said WHEN they said it, or that he disagreed with what they had to say. Personally, I have decided to stop reading the discussion board so that I don't have to weed through his spammy posts. I only read this one because someone pointed it out to me. -Jealousy

From: Wuss Tuesday, April 27, 11:00PM

I think I understand why you refuse to give up quoting. It's simply because, without them, it'd be too darn obvious that you don't listen (or read) to anything that's being pointed out here at all. The bottom line is this: we find your posts unnecessarily spammy and insulting as the board is a "thread"; most of us are smart enough to either employ screenlen or backscroll to read the postings just above and do not need to be stressed by unnecessary spam. Your points are amusing, I can concede that much, but your behavior is downright rude. People are asking you to stop quoting, and if you look around, nobody else quotes in their missives. So why don't you heed to what you said, be civil and polite, and stop quoting. Wuss

From: Wuss Tuesday, April 27, 11:04PM

I don't care to know if "Most" of your friends are 1/2 or 2/3, or even 1/1, nor the fact that you are 'appreciated' by a few. The main fact is, we may agree with one or two of your ideas, we might find some of them interesting, and of course there'll be those that simply speak of your inexperience and ignorance. But, when we ask you to stop quoting, we are not asking you to stop posting. You are not the only one that can crusade for things they believe in. In a short while, I'll make sure that your writing privileges are revoked by leading a crusade on my own -- unless you cease to stop quoting. Wuss

From: Wuss Tuesday, April 27, 11:08PM

Geezus, meant to say unless you cease to quote, i think. -frown- Wuss

From: Wuss Tuesday, April 27, 11:09PM

mmm. dejean-vu? he :-)

From: Jean Wednesday, April 28, 12:12AM

in append 7, Ton writes: Hardly. If that were the case, Id just state my opinions and not even -bother- to check for appends, let alone respond to them so thoroughly. That -would- seem to fix a lot of problems.

From: Jean Wednesday, April 28, 12:16AM

in append 8, Jealousy writes: <-ponder- Maybe this is one of the reasons he was banned from those 2 other muds he has been bragging about being banned from?> I was bragging was I? Hardly. I was mentioning it when the context was appropriate. The reason I was banned was because Im a controversial person, no question. That doesnt mean Im mistaken, though. For details on why i was banned from the first mud, tfc, go here: http://www.purerave.com/-shade/muds/tfc/ Already jumping to conclusions I see. For your information, I always listen to what others say, bake filet necessarily do is -agree- with what others say. You seem to confuse the 2. In any case, when I dont agree with someone, besides telling them that, I also usually state my reason; my recent postings are certainly no exception. i like the word protests instead of complains better, but thats basically right. no.. bingo. Once again, insult without justification.

From: Jean Wednesday, April 28, 12:18AM

in append 9, Wuss writes: Sigh. You ever try removing the quotes from one of my messages? It wouldnt make sense. My messages are -so- dependent on what others are saying that they cant even stand alone. Id like to differentiate that from my points- my points are clear. The thing is that I custom tailor each of my messages specifically for the person im responding to. I could just come out with general statements and leave it at that, but im doing my best to try to persuade all of you that my points have merit. People have accused me of not listening, but I think that anyone who seriously looked into the matter would see that time and time again Im repeating my points since people havent bothered to read past points of mine. I dont even complain- I write a lot and can understand that people just entering the frey dont want to bother reading it all. But it really takes the cake when people accuse -me- of not listening to whats being said. Once again, the reference to spam. I think this is the last time Im going to even do the favour of quoting that word. So, for the last time (i hope): i dont believe im spamming. Im just a prolific writer. If you have proof that what im doing is spamming, id like to see it. Id think its the other way around- yours is. Why? Well, lets see. You accuse me of not being qualified yet give no reason why. You make your points, to which i listen to and respond to, but then you dont respond back because im too spammy. convenient excuse, must admit, but it doesnt fly. Im happy for them. If you dont want to read what i write, dont. Just dont go preaching to me about what you think i should or shouldnt do, or spend a little of you precious time that youd rather spend slaughtering other characters or xping for who knows how long and bear some horrible quotes for a few seconds a pop.

From: Jean Wednesday, April 28, 12:20AM

in append 10, Wuss writes: nods. You word things rather harshly, but ill give you this- ive learned a -lot- from discussing things from people like you. And I certainly havent learned everything. But I think that by now, my points have gotten pretty good- so good, in fact, that your picking on my quoting seems more like an excuse to not have to be bothered with my points. And what a crusade you and others around here lead- to get me to stop quoting. god, youve probably spent 10 times more time talking about quoting them youve probably spent reading it. And then, ofcourse, theres the time you spend xping and pking.

From: Wuss Wednesday, April 28, 12:32AM

It is simply amusing to think that us 'picking' on your quoting is because your points have become good. On the contrary, it is precisely because your points are meaningless that we 'pick' on your quoting. There have always been lengthy posts in the past that actually said something worthwhile, and nobody complains about them (not seriously, anyway) since there were points in them that were valid. On your case, not only is half the thing you speak of simply of ignorance and nonsense and a fantasy spun by a youngin with no experience and regards to anyoone else, but it is also spammy. Since we do not really wish to stop people from posting cuz of their chant vina gam dyn ex of being ridiculed, we just made a point in your cas e for being unnecessarily spammy, and, not listening. There are immorts on this mud for a reason, and the reason is that they implement and enforce rules. It has been notified to you in more than one occasion that quoting was to be stopped, but you do not heed. Now, I think, they should seriously do their duty of enforcing their rule, and take away any posting privileges you may have. Wuss

From: Sandra Wednesday, April 28, 02:19PM

Ok, let me be even -more- clear. Due to numerous complaints regarding your posts, I am telling, not asking, you to quit with the quoting as it causes additional, and unnecessary spam to those of us that DO want to read these boards. We will not code a new command just so you can waste space with senseless spam on posts that doesn't need to be there in the first place. This is the last time i'll post on the matter. I've tried to be polite, I've tried to explain, next time I'm going to start giving warnings. -Sandra

From: Jean Wednesday, April 28, 05:24PM

in append 18, Sandra writes: The idea that my quoting makes reading this board unreadable is absurd. In any case, as Ive already told you, i wont stop quoting willingly, so that leaves you with the usual set of options that admins have. Yet another person declaring my posts as spam without offering any evidence that its the case. Well, warn away; see what good it does you. Or perhaps you didnt hear about the fact that I havent backed down from implementors before when the implementors didnt give good reasons for me to do so. and no, things like banning alone is -not- a good reason- things like persuading me that, indeed, i -am- spamming, would be.

From: Jean Wednesday, April 28, 05:30PM

in append 17, Wuss writes: Be amused all you want, but i think there really is something to my posts being good. If my points were meaningless, youd have defeated them long ago. Id quote more, but you just say the same things over and over and over again.. no point.. About the fantasy thing- this game is a fantasy- so maybe i havent xped as much as youd like on here. As if thatd make me learn so much more. Then you go on to say things that have no evidence whatsoever, that ive already said have no evidence whatsoever. Instead of finally presenting some evidence, you accuse -me- of not listening. Certainly. Sandra has now indeed said that she wants me to stop or else type thing. No rebuttal of my points as to why I quote, even though I gave her custom tailored reasons as to why I quote. I even said that I could divide my posts even further if the length of the post was really such a problem (i dont want to be crashing anyones mud client, thats for sure). Recently, pretty much all my messages have been 2 pages word processed or less anyways, but im hoping i can have up to 3 pages, because i think a post should be conserved as a single unit. all of a sudden its a rule- perhaps Wusss rule or something :-p. In any case, i wouldnt be surprised if Sandra orders me to stop doing something or other- quoting, say. If she chose that one in particular, Id debate it with her. And if she didnt want to debate, im sure she could do your little trick of denying me posting priviliges. I find it curious that you havent dealt with Ronnies post regarding his disagreement to your strong arm tactics, though, although it does make sense in the fact that who would want a 2 sided battle with me comprising one side :-p.

From: Sandra Wednesday, April 28, 05:38PM

You've now recieved two warnings, one for spamming this board, the second for failure to stop doing the above when asked to by the immortal staff. Let me make one thing extremely clear to you, do not test me when it comes to the rules of this game. I don't -care- what happened between you and immortals on other muds. I do care what happens on this one. And you damn well will pay attention to the rules on this mud, and the staff that runs it, or you definately will not be allowed to play it. All of this could have been avoided, btw, if you'd simply paid attention to the first two posts by the staff regarding this. Instead you wish to continue, stating how you're right, and we're not, etc, etc. Stop it now. -Sandra

From: Bennet Wednesday, April 28, 05:46PM

See, the thing is, people -have- given you good reasons why you should knock off the quoting. You've chosen to ignore them. People -have- rebutted your arguments. You've chosen to ignore them as well. So don't complain about how misunderstood you are, or how you did this on such-and-suchMUD. No one really cares. You're judged based on how you present yourself to the people here, not on how spiffy you think you are.

From: Jean Wednesday, April 28, 08:57PM

in append 21, Sandra writes: conjecture on your part i assure you :-p. actually, youre the only member of the immortal staff thats asked me as far as i can see (please correct me if im mistaken). god sandra, you just dont get it do you? you think i havent run into you bossy immortal types before? which brings me to my next quote.. yes, ive been getting the feeling that you dont care about a lot of things- apparently not such an unusual thing for immortals, as Wraith showed when he stopped even -trying- to defend himself in the case of Wuss. yes, i know, you want things to go the way you want them to. oh for the love of god, ive been prepared to be banned from this mud for quite some time now. the fact that you havent caught on by now is rather hilarious :-p. im stating my opinion- naturally, i think im right- im me. however, that doesnt mean that i -know- im right and have always been open to discussion on the issue. you clearly arent anymore it seems. anyway, balls in your court again for what its worth.

From: Jean Thursday, April 29, 01:34AM

in append 22 , Bennet writes: theyve given me reasons that i didnt think were good at all; i rebutted them. wrong again. both these points show how ignorant you are of whats been going on. Its actually the other way around- people are now ignoring -my- points. my preliminary ones, yes. I rebutted those in general though. Up until now anyways- i think its understandable, given the fact that im now looking at another banning in the face; basically repeating my unanswered arguments seems rather tedious. But Im still doing it somewhat, bake filet < So don't complain about how misunderstood you are> i think its a perfectly good point to bring up. If that were really true, id have been gone by now. As it is, theres a spark.. little thing, but enough. Im judged on a variety of factors. Much of it is ignorance it seems, as youre ignorant post showed.

From: Sandra Thursday, April 29, 01:48AM

I'm not going to ban you unless I'm forced to. Unlike other muds, this one does have a set of rules to follow for both the staff and the playerbase, a set of violations that are followed, and warnings/punishments based on that. I will say one thing though, while you may not like what I've said in my appends, or the warnings I've given, you'll still follow said rules if you wish to play here. Whether you think the reasons were good or not as to why everyone, and then me, asked you to stop with these spammy, almost unreadable posts, does not give you the ok to continue to post them when one of the immortals(Me in this case) tells you to stop. Your quoting makes it difficult to see what it is you're trying to say, it adds additional nonsense to already long posts, has crashed the mud once, and is not necessary. I've asked you to stop. Rufus has told you to keep it short, Sabella has done somewhat the same. Not to mention the numerous players complaining about them. Considering all of the people that have said the same thing about it, I find their reason(s) to be more than adequate, and see no reason for your continued 'rebutting' of their posts. This board is for ideas, and discussions. Not for spamming the hell out of anyone trying to dig through this mass of nonesense trying to find one sentence worth reading. -Sandra

From: Bennet Thursday, April 29, 08:02AM

Whee, Jean's calling -me- ignorant. God, you really are offensive.

From: Stile Thursday, April 29, 11:20AM

How about... spam: unnecessary repetition of text [see also - quoting] Stile, :P

From: Jean Thursday, April 29, 01:33PM

in append 25, Sandra writes: What would force you is what -id- like to know- despite all appearances, i dont want to be banned- but i want to quote even more then my care about being banned. ok. Youve told me that many times already. Ive told you that i -wont- stop quoting for you or anyone- you have your options and i have mine. Not everyone thinks of them as such. Not many people are vocal about that, but Ronnie (the Jean thread, append 18) did actually say i shouldnt be penalized for the way i write. Im not swearing nor would i- -that- i think, is something that could merit banning even in -my- eyes. According to you and those others anyway. According to you and those others no doubt. In any case, if you dont like the way i write, why read my posts at all? and why not put in this read next gag that would make it easier for everyone who likes to use the read next thing? i suppose youd rather ban me then do that little change. you mean quotes- thats all it is. quotes that provide context to what i then say. Quotes that make what i say clear (because without them, as ive mentioned before, what i say wouldnt be clear. you sound as if long posts were close to a misdemeanor. that was when my posts were up to 5 pages word processed- ive now brought it down to no more then a little over 3 at most. Nothing is necessary- we could all just xp and forget about posting altogether. Im doing that- If need be, ill bring my posts down to only about -2- pages word processed, but it seems that my current little over 3 pages limit assures that the mud doesnt crash because of my posts- heck, im not even the only one who does posts of that length- on occassion, other players have done posts as long. Maybe shes written something else.. or maybe youre referring to something i replied to amicably a while back.. havent checked.. if you think that im tiring you guys out, can you imagine how it is on my side? Im dealing with almost everyone in this ooc board at the same time- and believe me, the prospect of being banned is doing much to tire me nowadays. Just because many people disagree with one doesnt mean one is wrong. I still think im right, still want to persuade people that thats the case- thus, my rebuttals. your quoting of the word rebutting seems to suggest that you dont think im really rebutting their points- is that the case? exactly.

From: Jean Thursday, April 29, 01:39PM

in append 26, Bennet writes: yeah, when youre making your little points, you certainly are. I mean, have you even read all my posts in this thread -alone-? never mind the rest of them.. thats right, im the one whos being threatened to be banned and i get a little miffed that people dont even bother to read what im saying while they criticize me and call one of them ignorant, so right off the bat -im- the one whos offensive in general. Just calling things the way I see them- if i was perfect, id use nicer words, but im wearing thin now..

From: Jean Thursday, April 29, 01:46PM

in append 27, stile writes: chuckle :-p. this is how i see quotes in terms of me reading them- i want to get into the most recent debate- i dont want to see everything that theyve worked up to. But i cant really understand this or that post without knowing what the person before was talking to.. so i have to read the post before.. which in turn refers to stuff in the post before that.. and on and on.. i want to encourage new people to read my posts, not discourage them- so when i say check out post 48, append 28 or whatever, they dont have to read all the appends just to feel like they know whats being said.

From: Sabella Thursday, April 29, 05:35PM

Jean, you claim to want to encourge [new] people to read your posts. I would normally assume that you also want to encourge non-newbies, but apparently that is not the case, as you are actively -dis-couraging us from reading what you have to say. I would think, being as you would like to see the system changed in various ways, you would particularly want immorts to read your posts (as they can affect said changes). However, with as much else as immorts have to do and as much other reading (morts typically read 3 boards, immorts typically read 7 boards daily - not including clan boards, and the immorts whose job duties mean they go through -all- boards (including guestbooks) immort also have several lists to read) as they have to do, the unnecessary repetition of what we have already read, and the need to wade through it to find your comments makes reading your posts (regardless of their actual content) a daunting and discouraging prospect. This is not, imo, the best means to induce change. Even as a new player, my personal style of reading is to start at the beginning and read everything. As a newbie immort, I started at the top and read all the posts still available on the boards I had not seen before. As a new player, -I- would still find your posts discouraging as -I- would have already read what you are quoting. Boards are very different from newsgroups and mailing lists where quoting is necessary, although even there they discourage -excessive- posting. What you are doing is excessive, which is why it falls into the 'spam' category. -Please- rethink your position. I would like to talk to you, but cannot do so in this fashion. Sabella

From: Jean Friday, April 30, 12:52AM

(part 1 of 2) in append 31, Sabella writes: Hardly. Ive responded to quotes nested 3 deep and more.. something like this: me- what do you think of quoting? someone else- bad, and you? me- well, i think its ok.. someone else- why do you think that? well, it allows one to rapidly respond to someone without having to figure out their exact meaning. its effectiveness is most clearly illustrated in long posts where the tedium of paraphrasing would really show. Eventually, when theres enough nesting it gets too much, so I finally paraphrase. But as you can see, im -far- more comfortable then many people here are with quoting- and im certainly not new to posting. On firstclass bbses, quoting has become somewhat of an artform, in the same way that I believe I use it- quoting bits and snippets tailored to the point that is trying to be made by the person whos quoting. To you, its supposedly spam. To me, its a masterpiece. Personally, I think that immorts should be given a break and only have to focus on one specific board, possibly even dividing -that- task up; perhaps you need more immorts to do this, but thats my recommendation anyway. In any case, if i were to paraphrase everything i responded to instead of quoting.. theres no way id be able to respond to everyone. and i might get the gist of what is said wrong, in which case id be accused of falsely putting words into peoples mouths.. a bunch of headaches i think are quite unnecessary considering one can just quote and get it exactly right. I read a fair amount of posts before i started posting- notably, the web discussion board, though clearly the main action is here. When i came here, seeing the numbers of posts around, i concentrated on posts that would be of particular interest to newbies. Since i didnt find many, i went on to talk of things that i thought newbies would be interested in (and hey, since i was a newbie, it made it all the more interesting :-p). nods. but im not a newbie immort, just a newbie.

From: Jean Friday, April 30, 12:52AM

(part 2 of 2) I think youre more the exception then the rule. Heck, if i saw this quoting gong on, I think id just skip reading from the beginning and maybe just read the top appends- at the beginning, one can be starved just to get into the game and so just putting something in and getting some kind of response might be just the thing to get one going. At one point, i was posting about 50 posts a day to a certain busy newsgroup and people were fine with it (though not always my opinions :-p). Perhaps excessive in that its too much for you to read all through; my suggestion is that you dont; just focus on one or 2 important threads and try to just look at the last few messages only. On my part, ill have more consideration for you immortals, as i now know how more of how busy you must be. <-Please- rethink your position. I would like to talk to you, but cannot do so in this fashion.> Youre not the only one with difficulties Sabella. When im being attacked for my views, posting style, whatever, therapy for me is parrying every single blow if possible, attempting to show that im more then a match for everyone combined. I dont want to get into the nightmare of i didnt say that paraphrasing, not to mention the fact that id then be disabled to reply to everyone. From time to time, however, I start a new post- those messages i recommend you read as theyre almost -never- with quotes. Now that im thinking of immortals, ive heard that new function has been made to disallow someone from posting notes- im wondering if this is because i told you how disallowing me from posts would be the only way id stop quoting.. because while thats true, its also true that if the read next function were changed to simply allow the gag function to work with it (so that if you typed read next and someone you gagged was next, itd just skip over that and go to the next person), itd save everyone grief (me grief from not being able to post with jean and everyone else from having to contend with new characters that they didnt know was me posting- not to mention protesting the decision in chat, in tells (with permission), in rooms, wherever. in closing- brute force seems to get rid of problems fast, but the repercussions can be far worse then the original problem. Trying to work with the person involved, as Sandra so adamantly refused when i asked her to do this gag thing (Wuss was actually the first person to suggest it) will only exacerbate the situation. And the most brute force way, just banning me? What kind of things will that bring? Perhaps a lesson that might means right.. or mob rule means right.. and where that can lead, well..

From: Sandra Friday, April 30, 11:25AM

Brute force? I've told you to stop spamming. You seem so intent on reading this board, perhaps you should read the help files. I've told you to stop, I've warned you for it, if you want to see who holds out the longest, fine. I promise you that you'll lose. -Sandra

From: Jean Friday, April 30, 06:54PM

in append 34, Sandra writes: yes, thats right- people like you and lady ace basically threatening my very right to be here simply because i quote is pretty brute force- oh, sure, you could have just banned me the moment i didnt follow your order, but its a pretty barbaric way of dealing with such a simple problem. Anyways, i heard youre going to deny me access to the boards if i continue with some new code one of you imms brewed up- so you laughed when i asked to have the read next command allow one to gag a persons notes and then you turn around and cook up a way to gag me outright? for shame- this is the most obvious attempt at just trying to silence one, not because you have to read -any- of what i write, but simply because you dont like what im saying (you seem to have made it pretty clear that its my ideas, not the way i convey them, that youre -really- against and youd just like to silence my ideas as best you can without looking like a -real- ogre). Ah, here we go with the why dont you just get lost in the help files business. If theres a specific help file youd like me to look at, tell me. Or perhaps -you- should define how exactly im spamming. Ive asked you to before, but apparently you seemed to have missed that. youll never learn. I can -never- lose when i fight against oppression- if you ban me, my legacy of fighting oppression will remain- some new players, namely ulric and skateboarder, as well as ronnie before them have shown that im not the -only- one who feels that your picking on my quoting is -way- out of hand. Deny me access to these boards and you create a powerful antagonist. Ban me and you create a martyr. Only by trying to negotiate (wow, a new word for you) will you ever get peace.

From: Delilah Friday, April 30, 07:16PM

Hm. About Jean and his 'quoting is an artform' and when he says it lets him respond without having to interpret whatever. Here's a quote for you: The devil may quote the Scripture for his own purposes Which I take to mean just because he uses the quotes doesn't mean he uses them in CONTEXT always. I think he refuses to stop quoting because that might mean he had to pay attention to what other people say and hinder the way I've noticed he twists other's words around to his own ends. my 2 pence Del

From: SkaTeBoaRDeR Friday, April 30, 07:12PM

Okay... First of all, I'd like to take this opportunity to say hi. :-p Second, I'd like to say STOP BEING BIG BABIES!!! -POKE SANDRA- and...to be fair...-POKE JEAN-. However, you people are inflating something that doesn't need to be inflated. I'm appalled at the behavior displayed by the imms in particular. In fact, I'm downright sickened! -tosses immortal code of conduct out the window- A lot of good it does anyways! What happened to making people feel welcome? Sure Jean may be "spammy" in your definition, but who bloody cares? If you, DON'T READ HIS DANG POSTS! Noone is forcing you! bloody cares? If you care so much, DON'T READ HIS DANG POSTS! Noone is forcing you too! Anyways...I just felt like defending someone whose player rights were getting infringed upon. It doesn't happend extremely often so I feel that, as a player, I have to help. Sure he's new and doesn't know squat about Legend...but you have to be civil to him at the least. Even if you don't like his posts, either the spamminess or the content, that's no reason to be mad at him!!! What happened to free expression? Anyways...enough from me. You know what I'm trying to say anyways. And if you are too thick-skulled to understand and apply, then I start to question why they let you be imms in the first place...or how you as individual morts survived so long with such a hostile frame of mind. -SkaTeBoaRDeR (Or, to sum up in two words: GROW UP!!! (both sides of argument))

From: Dworkin Friday, April 30, 07:19PM

Case in point, Jean. You don't have a right to be here. You have been given a priviledge. This system, as almost all MUDS, are run by the immortals as a volunteer act. Therefore, if the immortals ask you to cease a certain behavior, and you fail to comply, you are not being denied your rights when they kick you off, you're having a priviledge revoked. Its sort of like if you drink and drive, you lose your licence. You don't have a right to a licence, you have a priviledge to have a licence, and its someone elses right to take that away. You complain about being attacked on all sides, in an earlier post. (Look I did that without "quoting". Might it be possible that you ar now bringing these attacks upon yourself to elevate your sense of victimhood? I don't see any rational reason for your insistance upon quoting in such a spammy fashion (really, the lines get MUCH wider than you've been using) when so many have pointed out that they find your style rather annoying. Now, me personally, I can live with it, but if I had a habit of posting something in what is supposed to be a communal board, I wouldn't go out of my way to annoy others by maintaining a particular style that others found annoying. Also, we're pretty smart here - your quotes aren't exactly necessary to help us follow the thread. Well, anyway, food for thought. You've certainly made a mountain out of a molehill, anyway. I don't know who to cackle at more, you or everyone who's reacted to vehemently to you. Have a wobbly day! -cackle-

From: Amadio Saturday, May 01, 10:40AM

Hahahahahahahahahah Sorry, Jean's last append was just way too funny. "Ban me, and you create a martyr..." -laugh- For your follow up, how 'bout you start quoting lines from Braveheart? "Sandra, you may take my posting rights, but you will never take.... My Freeeeeeeedoooooooom!!!" This is too funny.

From: Jean Saturday, May 01, 01:43PM

In response to Delilah (append 36): Delilah, i dont -have- to quote. And while its true that one can twist the meaning of words, i think ive done that rarely if ever. Perhaps misinterpreted, but if what is said is vague, its hard not to- the quotes would help in showing where the vagueness was and how it was that i got it mistaken, thus helping the poster figure out how not to be so vague in the future- or, alternatively, a flaw in my general skills of interpretation. In any case, im beginning to wonder if anyone here is advanced enough in the art of replying to even understand what im saying, sigh.

From: Jean Saturday, May 01, 01:59PM

in append 38, Dworkin writes: I know that. for the wrong reasons- to oppress a disenting viewpoint in this case. And not the viewpoint of someone -really- spamming the board, like, say, Ceri with her life/death infos. No, in this case, its just someone whos writing a fair amount of information and quoting who hes replying to provide the proper context. You have to be -pretty- stupid to drink and drive. I dont even drink, so it saves me even -thinking- about whether whos driving me home. This is far different. Yeah, you paraphrased- takes a while and in a complicated point by the other side, can lead to misinterpretation even in the paraphrase.. which, in turn, can lead to your opponent in the debate say that youre putting words in his or her mouth.. oh yeah, i -really- enjoy being a victim, cmon, bring it on :-p I have quoted like this for -years-. you hear me? -years-. some have objected (until they got that quote feature on fc bbses anyways) but most have left it alone. this is the first time -ever- that i might be banned for -quoting- (sheesh). <(really, the lines get MUCH wider than you've been using). it has to do with the font that i like when im typing these things up on my word processor- it seems some letters can really scrunch up, making it pass the letter limit per line. What is the limit, anyways? Take out my quotes in a thread then see how much sense it makes sometimes. like the first 2 quotes and their responses in this very message, say- what would i know that mean without your quote? almost anything.

From: Jean Saturday, May 01, 04:54PM

In regards to my suggesting that Sandra was kinda ogreish :-p.. well, maybe not quite like an ogre.. maybe more like a witch.. more class, those witches.. and more deceptive too :-p. with maybe a bunch of henchmen.. call them the message 49er no goblin squad or something :-p. Its so easy to use brute force initially- seems to get rid of the problem. no brains required for it either. But the problems it creates, ah.. thats another story :-p.

From: Sandra Saturday, May 01, 04:59PM

I asked you twice to stop with the spam. Then I told you to stop, as you couldn't seem to grasp the concept of actually being polite enough to do what half of the mud has asked you to do. If that makes me a witch... -shrug- I don't see any brute force though. Perhaps it was the exclamation point at the end of one of the sentences in the first two appends. Or perhaps you seem so intent on getting yourself into trouble, as you keep bringing up being banned and whatnot, like its a prize, that you're seeing what you want to see...

From: Jean Saturday, May 01, 05:11PM

In response to Amadio, append 39: Perhaps you find ones right to freedom funny- i certainly dont. Yes, I know being in this place is a privilege; but if you take all of this into a different light, youll see that, like the physical world, the online world has its haves and have nots- the ones with the money and the technical expertise can tell the ones who dont have these things what to do. Which is ok if you have perfect leaders.. but no ones perfect.. so the hope goes that theyll see the error of their ways if theyre mistaken.. because if not.. well.. ive been on 2 muds like that already.. being banned can be a terrible thing to go through or, on the other side, to do to someone.

From: Jean Saturday, May 01, 05:20PM

in append 43, Sandra writes: i didnt see the first one until after i saw the second- lot of messages on here.. that i saw and responded to as soon as i did. Youre hardly polite- youve already warned me -twice-. and for what? simply because i quote it seems.. or is there more to it then that? no, that wouldnt make you a witch- what would make you a witch is if you got someone to make code to deny access to the boards while you couldnt even change the code for the read next command, to allow people to skip my posts automatically. Not yet, true. But the threat of brute force is all to clear. Thats insulting, but i take it that somehow you actually think i think its a prize. I keep on bringing it up because im trying to make it clear to everyone just whats at stake here- this isnt just a discussion- you have the power to take away this whole -mud- away from me and id like to make it clear that you seem to be threatening to do just that if i continue with my quoting.

From: Jean Saturday, May 01, 05:50PM

in append 37, SkaTeBoaRDeR writes: hey, why am -i- a baby :-p? anyways, sandra can talk and all, so.. shed atleast have to be a child, he he :-). Im -dying- to know what Sandras definition of spammy -is-- i can hardly fight it if i dont even know that :-p. The argument would be that if theyre using read next and have screenlen set, theyd have to press return a few times- the thing is, i -agree- with them that it could be a mild inconvenience; -Sandra-, though, instead of heeding the call of Wusss message, said that she wouldnt do it for -me-. Never mind the fact that I think i deserve a -little- help now and then, this one would benefit others far more then itd benefit me directly (i dont use the read next command anyways, so i -never- have to worry about this.) Maybe if she knew that Wuss is the one who first asked for it.. on the other hand, maybe she knows perfectly well that itd aleviate the problem- maybe she just wants to have an excuse to deny me access to the boards? sniff sniff.. you dont think my posts are spammy -too-, do you ;-r? Well, not always- i mean, we wouldnt want a neo nazi trying to get recruits- but the fact of the matter is, id just like some changes made in the infrastructure of legend mud. Well, as Ladyace said, freedom of expression ends when someones waving their arms in front of your nose or something- but in this case, if ones annoyed by my posts, one can -easily- steer clear, with a few return presses- hopefully this post filter that Wuss and others wants will go in and then things would -really- be nice.. Oh, easily- i mean, think about it- there were, what, 25 people who were practically lining up to put in their token get rid of him note in message 48. Many of them didnt even feel the need to explain their wish- its called mob mentality. A sad thing, but, unfortunately, something we still cant avoid in todays world.

From: Embeth Sunday, May 02, 08:51AM

mob mentality? Sounds like the democracy and the democratic rights you seem so fond of saying don't exist here. Embeth ps note I sign at the end, so you don't have to scroll up to see who wrote it

From: Amadio Sunday, May 02, 12:25PM

OK, let me make it reeeeeeal simple-- A whole lot of people, for whatever reason, have asked you to stop quoting You've refused. Should we like you for this? This isn't some sort of moral lesson, and it's not a fairy tale, put it in Oz language as much as you like. This is about you pissing off a lot of people for no reason, and to be honest, I think you get a kick out of it.

From: Moonlight Tuesday, May 04, 01:18AM

in append 47, Embeth writes: this place is somewhat democratic- i just dont think its democratic enough. Even an opponent of mine, Wuss, would agree to that id think. i know who wrote it before i even read the message, simply because i check to see the names to the appends first- which would mean that you writing your name at the ending would be redundant to me. Not that I care- a little extra text certainly never hurt -me-, chuckle :-p. ive yet to see that its hurt anyone else, but im sure there are plenty thatd say that its traumatized them for life :-p.

From: Moonlight Tuesday, May 04, 01:25AM

in append 48, Amadio writes: Allegedly, because its killing them or something, right :-p? As many have said before, if they dont want to read what i write, they only have to look at the appends and make sure they dont read mine. Or, if they want to use read next, type read next one more time (maybe a few enters in between). Despite the basic ease of this, with people like Ulric and Skateboarder pointing that out, I actually recommended a solution thatd benefit all id think- that I get my -own- board, just one north of here, say. Sandra would rather just deny me access to boards, however, then work out a peaceful solution, so thats what shes done (which is why im not on as jean right now). Never said you had to like me for the way i write. On the other hand, disliking me simply because i quote is a bit much id think. according to you anyways. fairy tales are made upon dreams.. wishes.. fantasies.. metaphors life isnt all dreams, fantasies & metaphors- but sometimes wed like to look at it that way- i know i did when i wrote oz. I wont respond to the rest- clearly you havent been paying attention to my posts or youd never have written it.


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